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Can you say excessive force....

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Old 01-14-2011, 02:37 PM   #1
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Can you say excessive force....

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...meled-diabetic


I just don't understand why cops like this aren't fired on the spot. A week unpaid suspension? Really?

Lets try and refrain from cop bashing. Not all are bad.
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Old 01-14-2011, 02:49 PM   #2
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not all cops are bad, but that man should sue the shit out of the officers who did do that. That is to far.
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Old 01-14-2011, 02:59 PM   #3
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I don't know if I agree. Unless you were there and saw the whole thing its hard to say what is excessive force. I've been around people that have had low blood sugar and they appear hammered drunk and can do things that they would not normaly do. The man could've been fighting them the whole time. They can't check everyone that appears to be drunk for diabetes. Thats just my two cents.
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Old 01-14-2011, 03:00 PM   #4
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Unfortunately, the story only gives Harmon's side of the events.

Did he say or do something that instigated the deputies? I've never seen an LEO act aggressively toward a person suspected of intoxication without them doing something to warrant it.

That being said -- I don't know of anyone who deserves to get tazed 7 times and beaten for driving under the influence. This is obviously excessive force and I am really surprised that they only got 5-10 day suspensions. That's pretty ridiculous.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:58 PM   #5
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When drunk drivers dont stop, wont open the door, wont exit the vehicle, etc. Approaching with guns drawn, smashing out the window and tossing them onto the ground is pretty much standard procedure. For departments that use tasers, using them when the subject will not comply is pretty much standard procedure. Having a nasty look on your face and using harsh language is pretty much standard procedure everywhere too.

Filing once you have a diabetic with low blood sugar (unless he blew over the legal limit) is not cool. Tasing once the suspect complied is also not real cool. I am more shocked by the investigator stating that the smashing of the window was unwarranted than by anything else. Sound like the only excessive use of force was a single taser use out of about a half dozen... I dont see how this is so outrageous as far as the officers use of force... unwarranted for one taser use? Sure. A bad decision to prosecute for DWI with diagnosed low blood sugar (unless he blew) sure. Thats it. Not much to see here.

Id have to see video of the kicking to see if the guy was really even kicked since there were no reports of injuries from the kicking. You can use your knee or foot to subdue a suspect or help roll him over or hold him in place.

I had a drunk I had to rip out of the car and toss head first into the ground just about a week ago. He got bloodied and had his shirt torn. He kept saying there was no problem as he held onto the steering wheel and refused to get out of the vehicle after he drove for 1000 yards with my lights and siren activated trying to get him to stop (going 20-30mph). Another officer had to pull up to his front bumper driving the worng way on the service road to stop him. He had swerved in to a curb and almost hit another dirver as he left his lane to his left. HE fought two officers all the way to the ground till he as cuffed. Had his door been locked I would have smashed the window open to get him. He blew over twice the legal limit. He was transported for medical issues due to blood pressure. Yes, I still filed DWI on him. He was over the limit. It did not matter if the ONLY reason he was swerving was a medical issue, he was still over the legal limit.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:04 PM   #6
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Yes, the cops did use unjustified force, but this person did put himself and everyone else in danger when he got behind the wheel with low blood sugar. Being in the medical field and working with people that are lifelong diabetics, they do know there limit and have food and insulin on them at all times.

This person could have called his wife to pick him up. The cops did act wrongly but this guy did put other people in jail. Would it make it a person feel any better if this guy, injured or killed friends or family, because he got behind the wheel in an unsafe circumstance.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:04 PM   #7
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Thats Crap, just makes me ill.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_Humanity View Post
Unfortunately, the story only gives Harmon's side of the events.

Did he say or do something that instigated the deputies? I've never seen an LEO act aggressively toward a person suspected of intoxication without them doing something to warrant it.

That being said -- I don't know of anyone who deserves to get tazed 7 times and beaten for driving under the influence. This is obviously excessive force and I am really surprised that they only got 5-10 day suspensions. That's pretty ridiculous.
Its not about driving under the influence. Its about resisting arrest and not obeying commands. You make it sound like they walked up and said "Hey, this guy is driving drunk... lets taze him a half dozen times for that." Which is NOT what happened.

I also wonder if you guys have seen violent diabetics before... nice people who act insane telling you they will fuck you up and beat the shit out of you if you keep talking to them when they are 100% nice people when not having an episode. DIabetic or not... if they try to kick your ass you have to defend yourself.

Whithout the video we dont know what happened.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:13 PM   #9
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And of course it's a "race" thing......Im sure jesse jackson is on a plane heading that direction.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:17 PM   #10
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Yeah it sounds like this cop went a bit too far. Just another officer on a power trip.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:32 PM   #11
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While the force may have been excessive, personally having worked around individuals who don't take reasonable care of themselves and fall into dangerous blood sugar levels should have their licenses taken away until they can show how to properly care for themselves. If they can't maintain reasonable levels they should never, never be permitted to drive. Many of these individuals exhibit behavior that is very similar to being extremely drunk. They can and often do become violent when blood sugar levels reach low extremes.

Have seen way to many who drive and cause major accidents to others. Their excuse is typically, I have to work.
Sorry, doesn't cut it IMPO.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdaniel1274 View Post
Yes, the cops did use unjustified force, but this person did put himself and everyone else in danger when he got behind the wheel with low blood sugar. Being in the medical field and working with people that are lifelong diabetics, they do know there limit and have food and insulin on them at all times.

This person could have called his wife to pick him up. The cops did act wrongly but this guy did put other people in jail. Would it make it a person feel any better if this guy, injured or killed friends or family, because he got behind the wheel in an unsafe circumstance.
Happen to manage diabetes for your self or someone? Sure people know their limits but in instances a persons BG can drop rapidly, I've seen it happen. Ive seen a person given insulin based off their carb ratio like any other meal and their BG drop so fast and so low that it took 2 full cups of orange juice (52 carbs) and 2 servings of mike & ike candies (30 carbs simple sugars) and constant BG checks every 5 minutes to get their BG stabalized.

Unless anyone is involved in the day to day management of Diabetes all you are doing is speculating.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilted Chiken View Post
Happen to manage diabetes for your self or someone? Sure people know their limits but in instances a persons BG can drop rapidly, I've seen it happen. Ive seen a person given insulin based off their carb ratio like any other meal and their BG drop so fast and so low that it took 2 full cups of orange juice (52 carbs) and 2 servings of mike & ike candies (30 carbs simple sugars) and constant BG checks every 5 minutes to get their BG stabalized.

Unless anyone is involved in the day to day management of Diabetes all you are doing is speculating.
Agreed, good points.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevL View Post
Its not about driving under the influence. Its about resisting arrest and not obeying commands. You make it sound like they walked up and said "Hey, this guy is driving drunk... lets taze him a half dozen times for that." Which is NOT what happened.

I also wonder if you guys have seen violent diabetics before... nice people who act insane telling you they will fuck you up and beat the shit out of you if you keep talking to them when they are 100% nice people when not having an episode. DIabetic or not... if they try to kick your ass you have to defend yourself.

Whithout the video we dont know what happened.
I understand the brotherhood of the cop mentality and you want to give them the benefit of the doubt but either way you look at it based on this article these cops were out of line. The fact that ANOTHER LEO had to intervene proves that these deputies were completely out of line. This state patrolman knew something was wrong and knew these deputies were out of line. Regardless of SOPs tasing 7 times, kicking, stomping, and unnecessary destruction of property are out of line for someone in a medical emergency and not resisting.

These cops were nervous for some reason (or afraid of a big black man) and acted unprovoked. Maybe they were drunk... drunk with power

thanks god the state trooper had the sense and mental stability to understand what was going on. These deputies should be charged, fired, and locked up... EVERYONE is accountable for their actions regardless of station
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solus694 View Post
I understand the brotherhood of the cop mentality and you want to give them the benefit of the doubt but either way you look at it based on this article these cops were out of line. The fact that ANOTHER LEO had to intervene proves that these deputies were completely out of line. This state patrolman knew something was wrong and knew these deputies were out of line. Regardless of SOPs tasing 7 times, kicking, stomping, and unnecessary destruction of property are out of line for someone in a medical emergency and not resisting.

These cops were nervous for some reason (or afraid of a big black man) and acted unprovoked. Maybe they were drunk... drunk with power

thanks god the state trooper had the sense and mental stability to understand what was going on. These deputies should be charged, fired, and locked up... EVERYONE is accountable for their actions regardless of station
Don't understand why everything has to be about race. While I'm not a cop so I don't pass as one of the "brotherhood", I'm tired of being bunched into a category that says because I'm white I must be prejudice towards blacks. We don't have the whole story as has been mentioned several times. The highway patrol officer may well have walked up to the car and saw the diabetic kit or may have recently addressed a similar situation.
As to why the charges were dropped, this logically would have been because the individual was not drunk, was not high, and the police and prosecution may have actually been embarrassed by the officers reaction in this instance decided not to charge for the resisting arrest or other possible violations. Don't try to put round pegs in a square hole, they won't fit.
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevL View Post
When drunk drivers dont stop, wont open the door, wont exit the vehicle, etc. Approaching with guns drawn, smashing out the window and tossing them onto the ground is pretty much standard procedure. For departments that use tasers, using them when the subject will not comply is pretty much standard procedure. Having a nasty look on your face and using harsh language is pretty much standard procedure everywhere too.

Filing once you have a diabetic with low blood sugar (unless he blew over the legal limit) is not cool. Tasing once the suspect complied is also not real cool. I am more shocked by the investigator stating that the smashing of the window was unwarranted than by anything else. Sound like the only excessive use of force was a single taser use out of about a half dozen... I dont see how this is so outrageous as far as the officers use of force... unwarranted for one taser use? Sure. A bad decision to prosecute for DWI with diagnosed low blood sugar (unless he blew) sure. Thats it. Not much to see here.

Id have to see video of the kicking to see if the guy was really even kicked since there were no reports of injuries from the kicking. You can use your knee or foot to subdue a suspect or help roll him over or hold him in place.

I had a drunk I had to rip out of the car and toss head first into the ground just about a week ago. He got bloodied and had his shirt torn. He kept saying there was no problem as he held onto the steering wheel and refused to get out of the vehicle after he drove for 1000 yards with my lights and siren activated trying to get him to stop (going 20-30mph). Another officer had to pull up to his front bumper driving the worng way on the service road to stop him. He had swerved in to a curb and almost hit another dirver as he left his lane to his left. HE fought two officers all the way to the ground till he as cuffed. Had his door been locked I would have smashed the window open to get him. He blew over twice the legal limit. He was transported for medical issues due to blood pressure. Yes, I still filed DWI on him. He was over the limit. It did not matter if the ONLY reason he was swerving was a medical issue, he was still over the legal limit.
typical that a cop would say this... just love to see civilians get there right's swept from right under their feet don't you.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilted Chiken View Post
Happen to manage diabetes for your self or someone? Sure people know their limits but in instances a persons BG can drop rapidly, I've seen it happen. Ive seen a person given insulin based off their carb ratio like any other meal and their BG drop so fast and so low that it took 2 full cups of orange juice (52 carbs) and 2 servings of mike & ike candies (30 carbs simple sugars) and constant BG checks every 5 minutes to get their BG stabalized.

Unless anyone is involved in the day to day management of Diabetes all you are doing is speculating.
There are no easy answers for Diabetes, but this person did put other people in danger when he got behind the wheel of a motor vechicle. I do feel for this person, but that would not excuse if he killed or injured other people. The main idea of this thread is the excessive force the police officers used.

Last year in Long Beach, the police confronted a 6'4", 280 pound man that was being combative and disturbing the peace. This man injured three police officers, before he was killed by police, it turns out the man was mentally unstable, the community blames the police for shooting the mentally disabled man. These are situations that law enforcement deals with all the time. So I would hear both sides of the story before, we start blaming the police for excessive force.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:25 PM   #18
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why is it that police are so confrontational... regardless if this guy were drunk... smashing his window and wrestling him to the ground accomplishes nothing. A simple, sir are you okay would have quickly ascertained the status of the situation.

Usually, the best response to a problem is restraint.

This was not a hostile situation... they didn't need to approach with guns drawn. This guy did not kill, rape, rob or violate anyone, he did not assault, beat, or wave a dangerous weapon around... HE SWERVED IN THE LANE! Cops have become over zealous... mainly due to a lot of unfortunate incidences but damn...

Even another cop knew something was wrong!

whether he was black or not... something had these cops nervous whether it was paranoia or racism we'll never know.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacoMatt02 View Post
typical that a cop would say this... just love to see civilians get there right's swept from right under their feet don't you.
haha i dont see anything in his post saying he likes to take away civilian rights?? Sounds like your putting words in his mouth
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solus694 View Post
why is it that police are so confrontational... regardless if this guy were drunk... smashing his window and wrestling him to the ground accomplishes nothing. A simple, sir are you okay would have quickly ascertained the status of the situation.

Usually, the best response to a problem is restraint.

This was not a hostile situation... they didn't need to approach with guns drawn. This guy did not kill, rape, rob or violate anyone, he did not assault, beat, or wave a dangerous weapon around... HE SWERVED IN THE LANE! Cops have become over zealous... mainly due to a lot of unfortunate incidences but damn...

Even another cop knew something was wrong!

whether he was black or not... something had these cops nervous whether it was paranoia or racism we'll never know.
how do you know he didnt rape, kill, rob or violate anyone? Obviously if a cop feels threatened in any way, he will use precautions like walking up to the car with his weapon drawn.
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