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Old 05-15-2013, 04:50 PM   #9441
You can't fight in here! This is the War Room!
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Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
I'm surprised because, as I said, the Liberal cause in the U.S. killed a very similar pipeline, and they're generally opposed to such projects.

People provide oversight through organizations that operate outside of the government (NGOs such as Sierra Club, Tread Lightly, First Nations, etc.) and independently review projects. Those same organizations and their members work to inform the general public about the projects and their impact. Independent people produced those youtube videos you linked, and at least a few of the pipeline workers will give a damn if there's an accident. If the pipeline goes, NGOs may play a crucial roll in guiding the project towards a safer plan, and making sure the standards are met over the long term.

It won't be easy, and there's no assurance of success, but what's the alternative? Pete, you strike me as exactly the kind of person that could be a strong, effective voice from your community. You're smart, have a construction background, can easily sniff out BS, and you live in the affected area. It's obvious you care about the project, and this is something that'll affect generations of Canadians. It's worth your time.

That will always happen, but it doesn't mean people shouldn't try to limit the hazards and damage.
Well of course. My point is, shit can and will still go wrong. All design and cost is ultimatley driven by risk assessement. No one can afford to design, build, and operate a foolproof system for eternity. They play the odds with a certain level of risk assumption. If they can't do it profitably, they wouldn't do it. They simply play the probablity of profit off the probability of failure of a certain level of design and materials and operating scenarios, and they figure it is worth to pay for the failure if it happens. Somewhere, there will be a bad bunch of bolts, a bad batch of concrete, an incorrectly applied coating, an innatentive operator, an insufficient inpsection...
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:13 PM   #9442
dont tread on me!
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I know it was said already,BP. The gulf still shows signs of all that fkn oil that's sitting somewhere. Waiting for the next big hurricane to stir it up. It's unfortunate,but it did make more precautions. Still won't bring back the people tho.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:35 PM   #9443
Dogs & cats, living together! Mass hysteria!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
" Liberals " is the name of the party , not necessarily their ideology

The postponment of the Keystone XL pipeline by the US government is the reason this pipeline has gotten the fast track

The Canadian government wants to diversify our markets for oil so we aren't relying on the US market
I forgot that Liberal was a major party in your country, not just an ideology. As for the rest, we already discussed that the last time the pipeline came up.

As for the risks, accidents, etc. mentioned by others, you're missing my point. We aren't going back to tallow candles and mules any time soon. We can either go into developments like this pipeline with our eyes open and try for the best, or just let the bastards do as they please. Either way, these mega-projects will continue to happen. It's up to us to do what we can to minimize that risk and keep measures in place to control it.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:10 PM   #9444
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Originally Posted by acdronin View Post
lol, what's wrong with that?????
Hangin' on the wall in my garage, or even on the tailgate of my truck, sure.

Permanently on my back?

I catch enough shit from Conservative Baptist mom over the ink I already have. It would put her in her grave if I showed up with that and told her that my wife is a Wiccan High Priestess.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:14 PM   #9445
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Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
Why would you be suprised that they support the pipeline ?
'Murican libs are opposed to anything related to extracting anything from the ground except for plants, and anything that is beneficial to any business not owned by the libs that run Google.

'Murican libs are in favor of anything they can tax, or give to people that don't pay taxes, unless it violates one of the above.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:48 PM   #9446
Never let your fear decide your fate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
I catch enough shit from Conservative Baptist mom over the ink I already have. It would put her in her grave if I showed up with that and told her that my wife is a Wiccan High Priestess.

That would make for an interesting Sunday afternoon dinner chat....
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:53 PM   #9447
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Originally Posted by mommehK View Post
That would make for an interesting Sunday afternoon dinner chat....
I think it would be "You're out of the will and don't ever step foot in Texas again"
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:59 PM   #9448
Questions... Morphology? Longevity? Incept dates?
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Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
I forgot that Liberal was a major party in your country, not just an ideology. As for the rest, we already discussed that the last time the pipeline came up.

As for the risks, accidents, etc. mentioned by others, you're missing my point. We aren't going back to tallow candles and mules any time soon. We can either go into developments like this pipeline with our eyes open and try for the best, or just let the bastards do as they please. Either way, these mega-projects will continue to happen. It's up to us to do what we can to minimize that risk and keep measures in place to control it.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...s-alberta.html
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:04 PM   #9449
IAFF Local 34 Professional FireFighters
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Originally Posted by Rich91710 View Post
my wife is a Wiccan High Priestess.
Yours too??? Nice!!!
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:15 PM   #9450
Dogs & cats, living together! Mass hysteria!
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Thanks for the link. The closing line about the Green Party would make me leery of throwing in with them.
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:19 PM   #9451
Questions... Morphology? Longevity? Incept dates?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
Thanks for the link. The closing line about the Green Party would make me leery of throwing in with them.
I voted Green this time in the Provincial election and voted Green in the last Federal election , and in the riding where I live we elected the first Green Party candidate in Canada
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:30 PM   #9452
Dogs & cats, living together! Mass hysteria!
DoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shedDoorDing is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
I voted Green this time in the Provincial election and voted Green in the last Federal election , and in the riding where I live we elected the first Green Party candidate in Canada
"In the B.C. legislature, the election also brought in a new anti-pipeline, anti-tanker voice: the province's first Green Party member of the legislative assembly, climate scientist Andrew Weaver — a fierce critic of oil-based economies."

Is Weaver a fierce, pragmatic critic? Point being, if all someone does is scream NO! because Oil is Bad (or Whatever is Bad), they aren't solving anything. I firmly believe that migrating away from an oil-based economy is a worthy goal, but I know that viable alternatives need to be developed for that to happen. In the U.S., that critical step is often overlooked by some liberals/greens/environmentalists, and they lose credibility for that reason.

BTW, I'm interested in what's going on with the pipeline and I want to hear it from you. I'm not interested in debating anything about it.
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:35 PM   #9453
Dogs & cats, living together! Mass hysteria!
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Tires

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Old 05-16-2013, 07:21 PM   #9454
Senior Member
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Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
Nice!
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:58 PM   #9455
Dogs & cats, living together! Mass hysteria!
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Thanks. I'm not very concerned about appearances, but the DuraTracs do improve the look of the truck. I haven't driven on them with a load or offroad, but they feel better than the OEM Rugged Trails. Shocker, I know.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:04 PM   #9456
Questions... Morphology? Longevity? Incept dates?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
"In the B.C. legislature, the election also brought in a new anti-pipeline, anti-tanker voice: the province's first Green Party member of the legislative assembly, climate scientist Andrew Weaver — a fierce critic of oil-based economies."

Is Weaver a fierce, pragmatic critic? Point being, if all someone does is scream NO! because Oil is Bad (or Whatever is Bad), they aren't solving anything. I firmly believe that migrating away from an oil-based economy is a worthy goal, but I know that viable alternatives need to be developed for that to happen. In the U.S., that critical step is often overlooked by some liberals/greens/environmentalists, and they lose credibility for that reason.

BTW, I'm interested in what's going on with the pipeline and I want to hear it from you. I'm not interested in debating anything about it.
Weaver is a climate scientist who believes that global climate change and man's contribution to that is real and is opposed to the pipelines because of their enviornmental risk to our coastline from increasing tanker traffic on the south coast and in order to allow the Northern Gateway pipeline to go ahead , BC would have to lift a moratorium on tanker traffic on the Northern coast of BC

I agree with both these positions

Weaver does not represent the riding I live in though , our riding elected an NDP candidate
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:15 PM   #9457
Dogs & cats, living together! Mass hysteria!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
Weaver is a climate scientist and is opposed to the pipelines because of their enviornmental risk to our coastline from increasing tanker traffic on the south coast and in order to allow the Northern Gateway pipeline to go ahead , BC would have to lift a moratorium on tanker traffic on the Northern coast of BC
That sounds reasonable. I'm sure the moratorium was put in place for good reason. If there's to be a pipeline, the petitioning companies need to demonstrate how they'll address the concerns that led to the moratorium. The Greens should also make a good faith effort to offer alternate ways the resource could be utilized safely, or realistic ways to move Canada away from an oil economy. In the U.S., those discussions typically get bogged down in ideology and unrealistic plans on both sides of an environmental issue. I hope Canadians have better luck working it out.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:17 PM   #9458
Questions... Morphology? Longevity? Incept dates?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
That sounds reasonable. I'm sure the moratorium was put in place for good reason. If there's to be a pipeline, the petitioning companies need to demonstrate how they'll address the concerns that led to the moratorium. The Greens should also make a good faith effort to offer alternate ways the resource could be utilized safely, or realistic ways to move Canada away from an oil economy. In the U.S., those discussions typically get bogged down in ideology and unrealistic plans on both sides of an environmental issue. I hope Canadians have better luck working it out.
The moratorium was put into place in the 1970's because the waterways in the inner passage of the North Coast is just too treacherous
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:32 PM   #9459
Dogs & cats, living together! Mass hysteria!
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Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
The moratorium was put into place in the 1970's because the waterways in the inner passage of the North Coast is just too treacherous
Sounds to me like the Oil Folks need to figure that out or scrap the project. Building a terminal completely off the coast seems like the obvious answer, but that won't be cheap. It would also probably be subject to some hellacious weather.

You added a little earlier about the climate change debate. I think the issue is largely irrelevant because what people believe to be true doesn't matter. Earth will continue on with or without us. Humans should put serious effort into minimizing the damage we do to our planet, and migrating away from fossil fuels is the smart move.

I don't particularly like nuclear power as it stands, but it's the single best energy source we have right now. None of the alternative, clean power schemes come close to competing with fission, yet. Until fusion is mastered (or something else), I'd like to see all of the ideological BS get shoved aside for a worldwide effort to design & build modern, reliable, fission plants. Pair that with improvements in other critical areas (batteries, transportation, power grids), and humans could put a huge dent in our output of pollution, and be on the right track for a low emission, electric economy based on fusion, wind, geothermal, photovoltaic, concentrated solar power, etc.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:33 PM   #9460
Questions... Morphology? Longevity? Incept dates?
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Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
Sounds to me like the Oil Folks need to figure that out or scrap the project. Building a terminal completely off the coast seems like the obvious answer, but that won't be cheap. It would also probably be subject to some hellacious weather.

You added a little earlier about the climate change debate. I think the issue is largely irrelevant because what people believe to be true doesn't matter. Earth will continue on with or without us. Humans should put serious effort into minimizing the damage we do to our planet, and migrating away from fossil fuels is the smart move.

I don't particularly like nuclear power as it stands, but it's the single best energy source we have right now. None of the alternative, clean power schemes come close to competing with fission, yet. Until fusion is mastered (or something else), I'd like to see all of the ideological BS get shoved aside for a worldwide effort to design & build modern, reliable, fission plants. Pair that with improvements in other critical areas (batteries, transportation, power grids), and humans could put a huge dent in our output of pollution, and be on the right track for a low emission, electric economy based on fusion, wind, geothermal, photovoltaic, concentrated solar power, etc.
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