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5 ways "we" ruined the occupy wall street generation

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Old 11-15-2011, 11:58 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by jbmccul View Post
Some of us don't claim the Occupy Wall Street protesters, in Business school, we make fun of them!
In Engineering we made fun of Business school
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:06 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by macgyver View Post
Our society has completely forgotten about individual responsibility.
This. I deal with it on a daily basis, and they are military.



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Trolling is easy on TW,,,,, hows it for you? Turn in all your guns for new shoes yet???
Easy there, Jim. dont dump on my thread
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:58 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by macgyver View Post
See, I don't entirely buy that. It's a cop-out IMO. Is it easier for someone with a trust fund to make it? Sure. However the number of people who make it in the world because they have a trust fund is a very small percentage. Most "Rich" people are "rich" because of hard work and sacrifice, Many of them own their own businesses and put in long hours and sacrifice a lot to better their businesses. The great thing about our country is through hard work and discipline, and the will to take a little risk, anyone can do anything they want. As soon as you start buying into the "Bobby-Joe has it is easier than me and I'm just a measly middle class person" you're only setting yourself up for failure.

A friend of my boss for example, just bought the most expensive home in the state of GA http://www.ballerhouse.com/2008/03/2...e-golf-course/ he paid $13 million cash for the house, no mortgage.
He grew up as an orphan jumping from foster family to foster family, had no money, no trust fund, nothing. He worked hard and eventually opened up a medical supply company and made a name for himself and a nice fortune. He also employs a lot of people who work for him.

Sorry, I just have no sympathy for people who come up with excuses as to why they can't do something.
While I appreciate the story of your boss's friend as a great example of the power of focus and determination rising to the top in America. It's stories like that which give Americans reason to believe that forging a better life is out there.

There's 2 problems with that scenario, though.

1.) Statistically, it's an outlier. If you replayed his life 100 times, he never repeats his accomplishments.

2.) Most people in America don't want to be rich. They don't want to spend 80-90 hours a week forging ahead and innovating and making connections and exploring emerging markets. They want to do a job, do it well, go home to their wife and kids and pets and TV and computer and house in the suburbs with a decent car (a Tacoma maybe?) and have food on the table, a solid roof over their heads, braces for the kids and enough money left at the end of the day to cover any repairs or doctors visits. They want to take a vacation once a year somewhere warm for a week and have one or two hobbies and to send their kids to college. And when it's all said and done, after they've worked their asses off for 40-something years, they want to retire with dignity.

So how do they do that? By playing by the rules. Buying a house. Living within their means. Investing in 401Ks and IRAs. Buying used instead of new.

So when the people they trusted to provide them with the opportunities to keep up in life yank the floorboards out from under them, then stick them with the repair bill -- there's going to be backlash. When banks loan to everyone regardless of credit history, and manipulate terms to inflate the market, then when their house of cards comes tumbling down around them come crying for a handout from the very people who they just picked the pockets of, you bet they're pissed.
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:18 PM   #44
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All these people claiming "they can't find jobs". I don't get it. My girlfriend and I both moved to Portland without jobs and we both got jobs within two weeks. Granted they're minimum wage, but it's a job.
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:18 PM   #45
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my grandparents were immigrant farmers who had to work their asses off just to live.
from there, my parents were the first of their siblings to go to college
and they built a solid business.

But I never got spoiled.

An interesting read though. There are many in my generation who need to be punched in the face.
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:19 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekabraham View Post
All these people claiming "they can't find jobs". I don't get it. My girlfriend and I both moved to Portland without jobs and we both got jobs within two weeks. Granted they're minimum wage, but it's a job.
but those arent 100k+ jobs, and for those they actually have to do stuff. not clock in an office, pretend to sharpen pencils all day, and get a bonus for it...
so it doesnt count

thats what those protesters want...
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:20 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Konaborne View Post
but those arent 100k+ jobs, and for those they actually have to do stuff. not clock in an office, pretend to sharpen pencils all day, and get a bonus for it...
so it doesnt count

thats what those protesters want...
Oh.





Well fuck it, I'm going to school and have a job. Therefore, I'm happy.
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:26 PM   #48
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My last job app went unanswered, and they ignored me in the follow up.

The government must be corrupt, the "rich" have destroyed and outsourced all the jobs, thats why the app (That I actually never sent out... I think I mistook it for toilet paper, or a napkin) never got accepted.
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:05 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekabraham View Post
All these people claiming "they can't find jobs". I don't get it. My girlfriend and I both moved to Portland without jobs and we both got jobs within two weeks. Granted they're minimum wage, but it's a job.
Yeah I feel yea. I haven't really told anyone but I was laid off about 3 weeks ago without notice and no package. Just my last check and a handshake. But within a few days I applied at two places. One I had a great relationship with some people there and the other was through a member here on TW. With in a few hours of both I had Phone interviews then a few days later in-person interview. Long story short I ended up excepting a job with a company and I end up getting a 50% increase in pay and better time off and hours. Its all about if you search and put the effort into it. I don't have a college degree but have a ton of experience and know how to sell myself as a great employee.



But I do understand why the people have the right to be upset about some stuff. I think the approach might be wrong but so SOME of the people I say right on for wanting to stick it to the man.
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:18 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Lost_Humanity View Post
While I appreciate the story of your boss's friend as a great example of the power of focus and determination rising to the top in America. It's stories like that which give Americans reason to believe that forging a better life is out there.

There's 2 problems with that scenario, though.

1.) Statistically, it's an outlier. If you replayed his life 100 times, he never repeats his accomplishments.

2.) Most people in America don't want to be rich. They don't want to spend 80-90 hours a week forging ahead and innovating and making connections and exploring emerging markets. They want to do a job, do it well, go home to their wife and kids and pets and TV and computer and house in the suburbs with a decent car (a Tacoma maybe?) and have food on the table, a solid roof over their heads, braces for the kids and enough money left at the end of the day to cover any repairs or doctors visits. They want to take a vacation once a year somewhere warm for a week and have one or two hobbies and to send their kids to college. And when it's all said and done, after they've worked their asses off for 40-something years, they want to retire with dignity.

So how do they do that? By playing by the rules. Buying a house. Living within their means. Investing in 401Ks and IRAs. Buying used instead of new.

So when the people they trusted to provide them with the opportunities to keep up in life yank the floorboards out from under them, then stick them with the repair bill -- there's going to be backlash. When banks loan to everyone regardless of credit history, and manipulate terms to inflate the market, then when their house of cards comes tumbling down around them come crying for a handout from the very people who they just picked the pockets of, you bet they're pissed.
Sure, he is an outlier. I agree.

I also agree that most people don't want to be rich. However when the "cards come tumbling down" Ie. 401k balance, housing values take a crap, lose their job and "can't find one" etc. Those were all part of the risks they took and choices they made when investing in a more aggressive portfolio, Signing a mortgage on a house hoping values would go up (I did), and they chose not to diversify themselves enough to be adaptable to other jobs when they lose their job.

2.5 years ago. I lost my job partially due to the collapse in the Economy. I was left with no idea when I would find a job again had bills to pay. I chose to not sit on my ass and cry about it and blame other people. I got out there, started networking and in about 3 months I found a job right before I completely ran out of money. I actually also got about a 24% increase in my pay at my new job.

I personally think the reason a lot of the "long term unemployed" people are still out of work is because they aren't marketing themselves right to companies and they aren't willing to adapt to new things or have such a narrow skillset they can't apply it to other things. I sit right by the HR recruiters at work and they tell me they can't find quality candidates to fill their positions, we have a lot of open positions.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:34 PM   #51
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Wow... Great read, even if you don't believe what it says.
+1!
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:09 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Lost_Humanity View Post

And my second statement was in reference to the quickly evaporating Social Security scenario. If this many people are unemployed (or under-employed) for very much longer, Social Security is going to dry up that much faster. So, when the people tossing McDonalds applications while shaking their fists screaming "get a job, hippie," eventually get old and retire and come looking for their benefits, there won't be any.

Due to Congress using the SS trust fund as a lending bank for their pet projects, and then never replacing the $ taken out. If you're gonna bitch about it, use ALL the facts.

And for the guy in the Navy in Quatar who was bitching about "his money" being used to secure someone else's future...please Bra, don't go there...you're in a tax-free zone, getting cola or loc pay, HDP, per diem, and God knows what other special duty pay, and on an average year, you get back a lot more than you pay in. I know this for a fact as I'm retired Navy (This last January) and have not paid a net amount in taxes in a long time...I'm trying to get my wife to understand that all of the tax breaks we used to get (Combat Zone exclusion, BAH, Sep rats, etc not being taxable) are GONE, and we are going to take it in the shorts this year..plus doing my taxes is going to be oh so much fun...5 different W-2's...
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:21 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by macgyver View Post
My response to that is simple, everything in life is based on personal choices. People need to understand that there are consequences to the choices they make.

They chose to take out massive student loan debt rather than going to community college and get the same degree for 50% cheaper.

Blaming other people for choices YOU made isn't going to fix the underlying problem. At the end of the day YOU are the person who controls your outcome in life. NO ONE ELSE BUT YOU.

I'm about $40k upside down on my house now because of the fallen real estate market. Does it suck? Yes. Am I going to cry about it and expect someone else to forgive my underwater debt on my house because of a choice I made? HELL NO, I SIGNED ON THE DOTTED LINE agreeing I would pay back that money so I'm going to do whatever it takes to payoff that money. I was willing to accept the risk.

Personally, I think these occupiers need to get off their ass and do something to fix THEIR problems and not wait for someone else to do it for them. Our society has completely forgotten about individual responsibility.
Wholeheartedly agree with this statement.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:13 AM   #54
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In ref to housing: I know this isn't every case but every person I know who lost a home did so because they chose 'exotic' loans where they pay no interest for 2 years, then the payments balloon, or others. I signed a simple low, fixed-rate loan and still have my house 6 years later. I am NOT a rich man but I did my research and bought within my means. Yep, the market blows and I owe more than it's worth but I'm still getting by cuz I didn't go outside my means.

Some things are riskier than others. Buying a house is a risk. If you can't handle the downside of a situation, don't get into that situation.

Wall Street is full of greedy people. We're not going to change that. Get yours and be happy. Otherwise, move to a Communist country.
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Old 11-16-2011, 03:16 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Twizter68 View Post
Due to Congress using the SS trust fund as a lending bank for their pet projects, and then never replacing the $ taken out. If you're gonna bitch about it, use ALL the facts.

And for the guy in the Navy in Quatar who was bitching about "his money" being used to secure someone else's future...please Bra, don't go there...you're in a tax-free zone, getting cola or loc pay, HDP, per diem, and God knows what other special duty pay, and on an average year, you get back a lot more than you pay in. I know this for a fact as I'm retired Navy (This last January) and have not paid a net amount in taxes in a long time...I'm trying to get my wife to understand that all of the tax breaks we used to get (Combat Zone exclusion, BAH, Sep rats, etc not being taxable) are GONE, and we are going to take it in the shorts this year..plus doing my taxes is going to be oh so much fun...5 different W-2's...
I earn this money dude... I'm tired of paying taxes for greedy people who gamble everything and then want more from us.

Just because I'm on the governments payroll does not mean I don't earn the money. You should know this shipmate
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Old 11-16-2011, 03:32 AM   #56
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I fully agree with the part about college. Everyone my age was brought up that college WAS after highschool and you need it to earn a living. If you didnt you were relegated to working flipping burgers or other minimum wage shit. People holding these mcdonalds type jobs were either idiots, slackers or otherwise unfit.

I was brought up that you're a worthless piece of shit if you do not have a degree. How am I to change that level of brainwashing when it's still being pushed in every day? I got shit for taking less then 12 units because I'm looking for work and classes were full. By my gf's dad! (now currently trying to create a job for myself since no one is hiring in my depleted area)
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:07 AM   #57
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Easy there, Jim. dont dump on my thread [/QUOTE]
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:33 AM   #58
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I earn this money dude... I'm tired of paying taxes for greedy people who gamble everything and then want more from us.

Just because I'm on the governments payroll does not mean I don't earn the money. You should know this shipmate

Oh, I KNOW you earn every penny; been there, done that, got the scars.

Just don't bitch about taxes that you don't pay. Even stateside, only about 2/3 (depending on dependent status, paygrade, etc.) of your pay is taxable, and with all of the deductions you can use, that knocks that number down a lot. I did not pay a net tax for the last 15 years I was in. Deployment years...I got back more than I paid.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:29 PM   #59
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The real problem with youtube is that it always shows the numbnut idiots who dont know what the hell the protest is about.

The problem is that the Keynesian economic philosophy based government has expanded to far and exhausted itself. Shrink the govt, empower the people, stop forwarding the bullshit idea that a 4-year degree guarantee's you a job, and stop trying to "stimulate" the job market. Printing money makes everything worse.

People also need to learn that the government doesnt owe you a damn thing. People need to figure out how to find people they can serve with their talents. People have forgotten what america was. Sink or swim open market, no freebies.

I think of my grandfather who came to this country from finland. He worked to months for free in minnesota in a lumber mill. He eventually got so good at his job that they begged him to stay and work for them. After that he squirreled money away and bought a bigass house. Thats what I want to see from people. I want to see people actually go out and ask small business owners what they can do to help their business. It seems no one wants to serve something else. Everyone wants to sink. The government just keeps subsidizing peoples water wings...

Also, i didnt intend this to be political. Right or left, I dont care. I'm more worried about the piss poor choices people make, and the fact that the govt isnt letting people fall flat on their faces anymore.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:47 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alderleet View Post
Also, i didnt intend this to be political. Right or left, I dont care. I'm more worried about the piss poor choices people make, and the fact that the govt isnt letting people fall flat on their faces anymore.
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