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Old 11-24-2008, 05:36 PM   #1
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America in Crisis

Who is responsible for this colossal mess? Who should be held accountable for the massive loss of jobs, homes, pensions, market crash and the need for tax payer dollars to be pumped into bailing out miss managed corporations and their executives. How long before the USA recovers from this crisis.
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:40 PM   #2
✈ ✈ ✈ ✈ ✈ ✈ ✈
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Bush and his followers... It all trickles back to him


We'll be back jammin in 6 years
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:42 PM   #3
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Oh no here we go again!!!

How does this trickle down to bush?
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:44 PM   #4
bite me
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I've already posted this in another thread: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/off...ic-crisis.html
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:47 PM   #5
HOT!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neontrail View Post
Bush and his followers... It all trickles back to him


We'll be back jammin in 6 years

sad but true him and big government over the past 8 years have turned a blind eye to all of this sh*t: oil,housing market,CEO's rapping their companies and employees out of retirements the list goes on and on and the kicker is he don't give a dirty rats ass what happens because he is done in 2 months headin back to crawford see you losers later attitude. oh well lets hope this next guy can pull this country out of the gutter. i didn't vote for him but i sure am cheering for him.
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:49 PM   #6
Stock Taco For Now
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this crisis sits on the democrats shoulders. supporting fannie mae and freddie mac
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:55 PM   #9
I miss Lucy. :-(
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it's my fault. it has to be. everything else is.
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmb2003 View Post
How is this Bush's fault? It all started with the Clinton administration, it just happened to take 10 years for us to feel the full effects of his mistakes.

this is exactly right, nobody will listen to this though.. everybody wants to believe its bush because its cool to hate him..
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Old 11-24-2008, 06:11 PM   #11
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Well if you want to think about it this way. Subprime mortgage rates (which lead to this whole problem ) started in the end of the 20th Century. Who was the President at that time?
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Old 11-24-2008, 06:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom View Post
how about the american people are the cause

no one takes any responsibility for anything anymore , always have to hot finger someone else !

now i remember seeing this one librarian that was going to be foreclosed on ... she had a $500,000 house and could not afford the payment.. well hell yes i would love to have a big house, but i know i can't afford it
lets talk credit cards. i was trained in the old school, you save up to buy something, not charge it and make interest only payments

do we really have to keep up with the Joneses? they make more money and can afford it, but we can't

how many have put money into their retirement funds, savings in the last 3 years?

do we really need to spend $90 on a pair of running shoes that have a swoosh logo? and pay extra for a t-shirt with it ?

everyone was screaming about affordable housing so the fanny may and mack loosened up the rules !

hell when i was looking years ago they wanted a min of 15% down on a house. and the rule of thumb was no more than 1/3 of your income to house payments.

then when the housing market took off people cashed on their equity ( funny money) and got the necessities like cars and stuff, now they have a house with a payment that is killing them.

think you will find america is the only country with so much personel debt !
now it is time to pay it back and we all want excuses ! and think it is time to cowboy up and admit we are the cause!

just my 2 cents and bet i get a big flame job on this one
but i qualify as poverty,own my house,truck, and credit card has a total of $0.00 charged, receive no government aid, collected unemployment for 8 weeks in 1968. i just never got caught in the credit game!
if you are normal with the use of a credit card you pay 120% for everything you buy, save up and it is 20% off ;-D
+1 reality check
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Old 11-24-2008, 06:29 PM   #13
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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+2^^^^^^

Good job, Phantom!
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Old 11-24-2008, 06:50 PM   #14
come on fhqwhgads
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Canadians.

Oh, wait, TheMaster...aren't you a Canuck?

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Old 11-24-2008, 06:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
+2^^^^^^

Good job, Phantom!
x3.....most certainly!!!


it sure as hell aint all bush's fault!!
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom View Post
how about the american people are the cause

no one takes any responsibility for anything anymore , always have to hot finger someone else !

now i remember seeing this one librarian that was going to be foreclosed on ... she had a $500,000 house and could not afford the payment.. well hell yes i would love to have a big house, but i know i can't afford it
lets talk credit cards. i was trained in the old school, you save up to buy something, not charge it and make interest only payments

do we really have to keep up with the Joneses? they make more money and can afford it, but we can't

how many have put money into their retirement funds, savings in the last 3 years?

do we really need to spend $90 on a pair of running shoes that have a swoosh logo? and pay extra for a t-shirt with it ?

everyone was screaming about affordable housing so the fanny may and mack loosened up the rules !

hell when i was looking years ago they wanted a min of 15% down on a house. and the rule of thumb was no more than 1/3 of your income to house payments.

then when the housing market took off people cashed on their equity ( funny money) and got the necessities like cars and stuff, now they have a house with a payment that is killing them.

think you will find america is the only country with so much personel debt !
now it is time to pay it back and we all want excuses ! and think it is time to cowboy up and admit we are the cause!

just my 2 cents and bet i get a big flame job on this one
but i qualify as poverty,own my house,truck, and credit card has a total of $0.00 charged, receive no government aid, collected unemployment for 8 weeks in 1968. i just never got caught in the credit game!
if you are normal with the use of a credit card you pay 120% for everything you buy, save up and it is 20% off ;-D
+3!! and you can't blame us Canadians for this one.
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:38 PM   #17
Can you pass the bailout please?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacomaman06 View Post
x3.....most certainly!!!


it sure as hell aint all bush's fault!!
xEleventy billion!

In my opinion, it's a couple of different things...

1. First off, Phantom, you are right. It is ultimately OUR fault for digging a hole that was too deep. Whether it be a house that's more than we can afford, credit cards we can't pay off or just plain old irresponsible spending.

2. Secondly, political correctness and politicians (both liberal AND conservative) have made it much easier for us to be irresponsible by loosening restrictions on lending. If they didn't they were racist. And it was all so they could tell their constituents "Look what I did for you! You have a beautiful home! Now, continue to vote for me..."

Stop all the bullshit! If you can't afford it, no one should lend it to you. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR RACE!

Also, QUIT bitching about CEO pay. Do I think it's a little on the rediculous side for someone to be paid $60 million per year? Well, kinda. But, that's not my place to say. And it sure's fuck isn't the government's place to say either! The board of directors for Company A obviously thought that paying William J. Bennet, III Esquire $60 million per year was going to help their business. They didn't do it just because they liked his tie or that he's their brother in law, or that they thought his wife was hot. However, if Billy was able to negotiate such a fat contract, good for him! It's a contract. And if Billy boy screws up and Company A goes bankrupt, it's the shareholders responsibility to hold the board of directors responsible, fire him and make sure it doesn't happen again. Then, the shareholders should make sure that such stupid contracts aren't negotiated. It's the responsibility of the company, it's board and it's shareholders to fix it. NOT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT! If they go under, they go under.

Bitching about CEO pay is nothing more than class warfare. However, unfortunately, it's kinda effective.

Now, how do we get out of this mess and become a stronger nation?

1. Foreclosures. People that can't afford their houses should be kicked the fuck out. Regardless of why. Whether they bought too much house or they lost their job - doesn't matter. They still have a financial responsibility to continue to pay that mortgage, or sell it and get an apartment. If you lost your job, quit trying to blame it on greedy wall street execs or CEOs. The fact is that you still have to pay for it. You don't deserve your house - you earn your right to stay there.

2. Bankruptcy. If a company is no longer solvent, they need to take advantage of laws on the books that allow them to restructure. Or, allow stronger companies to buy up struggling ones. The government has no place trying to "fix" them. Will a lot of good people lose their jobs? Yes. That is unfortunate, but it is necessary.

You know what they say - "Necessity is the mother of all invention". We as a species cannot grow and be innovative if we aren't challanged, stretched and forced out of our comfort zone.

The government getting involved with all these bailouts will do nothing but feed the disease, enable our laziness/incompetence and prolong our suffering. I would be willing to bet my Tacoma that if the government would get the hell out of the way and allow people and businesses to fail, we would be out of this recession within two years. The way it's going, it's going to take us decades to get out of this. FDR didn't pull us out of the Depression, WWII did 20-something years later.

Blame Bush all you want. He was a spineless conservative when it came to spending. But, you better be ready to put JUST AS MUCH BLAME on the American people for this mess too.

</rant>

Now, back to trucks!
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Old 11-25-2008, 03:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornTaco View Post
xEleventy billion!

In my opinion, it's a couple of different things...

1. First off, Phantom, you are right. It is ultimately OUR fault for digging a hole that was too deep. Whether it be a house that's more than we can afford, credit cards we can't pay off or just plain old irresponsible spending.

2. Secondly, political correctness and politicians (both liberal AND conservative) have made it much easier for us to be irresponsible by loosening restrictions on lending. If they didn't they were racist. And it was all so they could tell their constituents "Look what I did for you! You have a beautiful home! Now, continue to vote for me..."

Stop all the bullshit! If you can't afford it, no one should lend it to you. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR RACE!

Also, QUIT bitching about CEO pay. Do I think it's a little on the rediculous side for someone to be paid $60 million per year? Well, kinda. But, that's not my place to say. And it sure's fuck isn't the government's place to say either! The board of directors for Company A obviously thought that paying William J. Bennet, III Esquire $60 million per year was going to help their business. They didn't do it just because they liked his tie or that he's their brother in law, or that they thought his wife was hot. However, if Billy was able to negotiate such a fat contract, good for him! It's a contract. And if Billy boy screws up and Company A goes bankrupt, it's the shareholders responsibility to hold the board of directors responsible, fire him and make sure it doesn't happen again. Then, the shareholders should make sure that such stupid contracts aren't negotiated. It's the responsibility of the company, it's board and it's shareholders to fix it. NOT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT! If they go under, they go under.

Bitching about CEO pay is nothing more than class warfare. However, unfortunately, it's kinda effective.

Now, how do we get out of this mess and become a stronger nation?

1. Foreclosures. People that can't afford their houses should be kicked the fuck out. Regardless of why. Whether they bought too much house or they lost their job - doesn't matter. They still have a financial responsibility to continue to pay that mortgage, or sell it and get an apartment. If you lost your job, quit trying to blame it on greedy wall street execs or CEOs. The fact is that you still have to pay for it. You don't deserve your house - you earn your right to stay there.

2. Bankruptcy. If a company is no longer solvent, they need to take advantage of laws on the books that allow them to restructure. Or, allow stronger companies to buy up struggling ones. The government has no place trying to "fix" them. Will a lot of good people lose their jobs? Yes. That is unfortunate, but it is necessary.

You know what they say - "Necessity is the mother of all invention". We as a species cannot grow and be innovative if we aren't challanged, stretched and forced out of our comfort zone.

The government getting involved with all these bailouts will do nothing but feed the disease, enable our laziness/incompetence and prolong our suffering. I would be willing to bet my Tacoma that if the government would get the hell out of the way and allow people and businesses to fail, we would be out of this recession within two years. The way it's going, it's going to take us decades to get out of this. FDR didn't pull us out of the Depression, WWII did 20-something years later.

Blame Bush all you want. He was a spineless conservative when it came to spending. But, you better be ready to put JUST AS MUCH BLAME on the American people for this mess too.

</rant>

Now, back to trucks!
Longhorn... you are absolutely correct. People keep looking to the Government for help. That isn't what our government was set up to do by our founders! If you want that move to socialist or communist country. The business of our government is to defend our country and keep peace and unity between the states... THAT'S IT! Everything else was suppose to be done by the individual states. Government should not be running our economy... we should. If one business fails another one will rise. It is simple supply and demand/demand and supply.

So if the big 3 fall that means the US is just going to stop buying millions of cars? come on. The U.S. is EXCELLENT at being an Entrepreneur! and will start a new company or the big 3 could merge to become a Jiant!
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:42 AM   #20
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i blame Canada. if we kick you idiots out of your country we can go up there and take over your jobs.... such as ice farmer, and penguin trainers.... you have penguins in Canada right?
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