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home improvement/ old well on property ??

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by anotherreject, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. Sep 22, 2013 at 8:14 PM
    #21
    OZ-T

    OZ-T You are going backwards

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    I would just replace the slab
     
  2. Sep 22, 2013 at 8:22 PM
    #22
    deog

    deog Well-Known Member

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  3. Sep 22, 2013 at 9:00 PM
    #23
    anotherreject

    anotherreject [OP] Well-Known Member

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  4. Sep 23, 2013 at 4:36 AM
    #24
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia Everyone lives downstream.

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    Oh well, I tried. OP, at least consider including the location of the well in the deed to your property. Maybe it will keep the next owner who decides to use a cherry picker to replace siding from putting a wheel into it. A 5' slab over a 4' hole wont give much support. Good luck!
     
  5. Sep 23, 2013 at 5:13 AM
    #25
    guitarjamman

    guitarjamman Well-Known Member

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    I would call the local board of health and see if they have either a septic plan or well location plan on file for your property - I would want to be 100% sure on what I was dealing with and either of those plans would show what it was.

    If it is an old well, your best bet is to encase it in a concrete collar with a removable cover - as previously stated, you could be looking at some large DEP fines if you abandon it incorrectly. If there is water in it then you have a high water table (makes sense if they only dug it 20' deep), start filling it with material and now you are introducing only god knows what into the water table and this is where the DEP sees an enforceable violation.
     
  6. Sep 23, 2013 at 5:20 AM
    #26
    gooch14

    gooch14 Well-Known Member

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    I work with this a lot in Michigan, and laws could be different, likely are different, in your state.

    You can't just cover the well and try to forget it. Wells are a direct conduit to groundwater and any contamination that could happen down the well will be unfiltered by the soil and could cause problems for surrounding wells and maybe even the public wells that supply your town.

    What we do here in Michigan for Dug Wells like that take some measurements and then go buy sand and bentonite clay. You layer the Bentonite clay and sand layer by layer until you fill the well hole up, and then top it with either fill dirt or your cement slab.

    In Michigan there is a 'Well Decomissioning Log' that is to be filed with the County Health Dept. when any well is closed with all the details on how you closed it, and the only two people that are leagally allowed to close a well in Michigan are the landowner and a Licensed Well Driller.

    Like I said this is all for Michigan, I would ask your local Health Dept, or Conservation District, or DEQ/DNR (whichever you have) and ask how you're supposed to do it.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmacd.org%2F_literature_136261%2FWell_Decommissioning_Manual_for_Groundwater_Protection&ei=3jFAUv7KCuKCiwLNwoCYBw&usg=AFQjCNFOimqIphUdZKNyVv4Nkpc77kkEpA&sig2=ViQvcAZnDZHp_igVyBKbiA&bvm=bv.52434380,d.cGE
     
  7. Sep 23, 2013 at 7:29 AM
    #27
    OZ-T

    OZ-T You are going backwards

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    Have you ever driven in a parking garage ?
     
  8. Sep 23, 2013 at 9:39 AM
    #28
    Noelie84

    Noelie84 What Could Possibly Go Wrong?

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    Don't be ridiculous, Oz. Reinforced concrete isn't nearly strong enough to hold up a vehicle...:rolleyes:
     
  9. Sep 23, 2013 at 9:51 AM
    #29
    bldegle2

    bldegle2 OldPhart

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    Huh?????^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    A whole lot of multistoried parking garages are made with rebar and concrete around the world, pretty atypical of most made in the USA...yes, reinforced steel beams, and reinforced steel concrete, easily supporting many cars...
     
  10. Sep 23, 2013 at 11:07 AM
    #30
    Red Rocket

    Red Rocket Member

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    Would like to see a pic.....you list a lot of the mods I am interested in.
     
  11. Sep 23, 2013 at 11:17 AM
    #31
    Round II

    Round II Member #12005

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  12. Sep 23, 2013 at 1:32 PM
    #32
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia Everyone lives downstream.

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    Would you drive a cherry picker over it in 20 years? Theres no team of engineers designing the slab, no one to be accountable to, no reason for the concrete contractor to assume that it needs to support anything heavier than people, no reason to use concrete that will hold a thousand pounds of weight 20 years from now, etc etc. Cmon dude, there are a lot of variables to consider if you dont do the job right, and none if you do. Not to mention its required by State law to be abandoned a specific way.
     
  13. Sep 23, 2013 at 1:34 PM
    #33
    Boone

    Boone Vaginas are rad.

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    Your sarcasm button must be broken. It should resemble this
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Sep 23, 2013 at 1:45 PM
    #34
    OZ-T

    OZ-T You are going backwards

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    I don't care anymore , a 6" slab with 25 mpa concrete and 15m bar 8" OCEW will carry a crap load of weight

    Good luck with your cistern OP
     
  15. Sep 23, 2013 at 5:49 PM
    #35
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia Everyone lives downstream.

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    No doubt it is strong, but it's not the point. If I were a potential future owner of this home, I'd rather know that this well/cistern was abandoned properly through my public records search before purchase, than to find out after purchase from a neighbor that there's an undocumented 20' hole somewhere under my patio that was illegally covered over sometime in the past using who knows what materials (because nothing was documented).

    If the OP doesn't abandon it properly, here's hoping that he decides to use reinforced concrete.

    gooch14, you did a great job explaining public health concerns with regard to contamination of the shallow aquifer, and suggesting a method to abandon the well properly. Thanks.
     
  16. Sep 23, 2013 at 7:27 PM
    #36
    OZ-T

    OZ-T You are going backwards

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    How does layers of uncompacted sand and bentonite seal the fissures in the walls of a 4' diameter dug well ?
     
  17. Sep 23, 2013 at 8:03 PM
    #37
    joshua721

    joshua721 Well-Known Member

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    Check your math. A=π•2r
    3.14•4 = 12.42
     
  18. Sep 23, 2013 at 8:40 PM
    #38
    Rich91710

    Rich91710 Well-Known Member

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    2nR (or simply nD) is circumference.
    nR^2 is area.
    Area * Depth = Volume of a cylinder.

    But 39sqft does seem too high....

    2nR = 2*n*2 = 12.564 ft circumference
    nR^2 = (n*2)^2 = ..... aaand... I fucked up on the order of operations.

    nR^2, the power goes first, thus, R^2 = 4, giving the same result, but ONLY for a 4ft diameter circle.

    For a 5ft diameter circle, it's
    2nR = 2*n*2.5 = 15.705 ft circumference
    nR^2 = n*2.5^2 = 19.63 sqft.


    But still... 12.564 * 20 = 251 cubic feet, which is still more than a 9 yard truck and still 30+ trips in the Tacoma for fill.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  19. Sep 24, 2013 at 4:51 AM
    #39
    joshua721

    joshua721 Well-Known Member

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    Where did I get .42 from wtf
     
  20. Sep 24, 2013 at 6:26 AM
    #40
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia Everyone lives downstream.

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    The objective is to make surface water contact as much soil and media as possible before hitting the nearest groundwater aquifer (this filters the water). So, you actually want the sidewalls to be porous because it provides the only avenue for the water to continue downward once it hits the clay layer. Imagine that youre forcing the surface water to take S turns around the clay layers and through the porous sand layers, with natural soils in the sidewalls making up the sharpest bend of each turn. Bad metaphor, but hopefully it gets the idea across.
     

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