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Old 08-02-2013, 02:58 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by jberry813 View Post
From what I researched, torsions are the wrong type of suspension for an offroad trailer. Shit for travel and the rubber just rips apart. They are great for on-road applications. I had torsions on my old toy hauler.
Yeah. That was my concern but other than small trailers, I haven't seen them used at all.

I think the biggest problem is they don't flex at all.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:02 PM   #22
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This thread needs more action....
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:36 PM   #23
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Subbing. Maybe I should make my goal for my trailer to be road worthy before yours is. Its been sitting for about 9 months, and I havent touched it. I have like 3 things left to do. I'm such a loser.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:51 PM   #24
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Sure he does.
After reading a little further, it would appear he has his shit together as well as a good sense of humor. This thread will be, wait for it.... Legen-dary!
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:54 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jberry813 View Post
Well....it's a start anyway


Looks good!!
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:52 PM   #26
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Got a little more work done in between beverages.
Hard to see...but I chalked out the frame on the garage floor.

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Old 08-02-2013, 08:24 PM   #27
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Some more general thoughts back on the topic of leaf springs. Springs with less arch are actually a really good thing on a trailer. Trailers are interesting because you need the suspension to handle a load as the primary goal. It's not necessary that a trailer have 13" of suspension travel because they just don't work that way to make that kind of travel possible.

If you think about the terrain you'll most likely be travelling when you have your trailer with you, you'll likely find that it will be washboarded and rutted fireroads the majority of the time just to get your favorite campsites. On occasion you'll find yourself on a more difficult trail with the trailer, but those times tend to be less frequent because a lot of the more difficult trails are just day trips and a trailer isn't required. Besides the necessity of a trailer on the tougher trails, the trailer can quickly become a liability more than an asset. It can be an anchor that you have to worry about dragging through difficult obstacles. With my own trailer, I purposely built it in a way that I *could* drag it through those difficult obstacles and the tough trails if I wanted, but once you have a trailer you find that you're pretty selective about when you take it and when you don't.

Now back to leaf springs and the more common terrain being travelled. If the washboard/rutted fireroads are where you end up being more often, then a flatter leaf spring will work great. A flat spring can respond quicker to smaller rapid bumps than an arched spring because it doesn't have to "work" against the arch of the spring. That makes a flat spring great for washboard roads because you aren't taking as many big "hits" to the suspension but many many rapid small hits. So with a trailer, a SOA setup with a flat spring with a good quality shock (if the extra control is needed) might be the best way to go.

The down side to a flat spring is slightly less load capacity. A spring with more arch will have better load carrying ability. This is my the old military M416s used a SUA setup with a fairly arched spring. Those little trailers were carrying a lot of weight as they were often used to haul large loads of ammunition and cannon shells.

So maybe a couple things to consider for anyone building a trailer. Think about what you need out of the trailer. If you just need a place for some extra camping gear and it's not a lot of weight go lighter/flatter with the springs. If you plan to have dual batteries, a generator, a water tank a RTT, propane, extra fuel, a full kitchen in addition to camping gear then a spring with more arch and better load capacity might be the ticket, but keep in mind you'll get much different performance from it if the trailer is used unloaded.

Longer length leaves are preferable in either case.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:58 PM   #28
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Jason, I look forward to watching this come together. If you don't already have a power solution in mind, I highly recommend the Honda EU line.

Adam, thanks for the spring post. I've never seen the design goals broken down like that.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:40 PM   #29
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Good post Adam. I have always been impressed with your trailer build. One thing i would like to add to that (cant remember if you've addressed this before). From my experience working at a trailer dealership and having to order all types of axles, leaf springs and kits, is matching up you axle rating to your leaf spring ratings. All new trailers usually come with equal rated springs to match the axle so they get the max GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)

Lets say you go with a 2000lb axle. Now you want to choose the right springs for your application (like Adam mentioned in his post).

Most common double eye leaf springs for 2000lb axles are rated at:
675lb (3 leaf)
900lb (4 leaf)
1000lb (5 leaf)

Obviously if you go with the 5 leaf spring you will be sitting on 2000lb axle and (2) 1000lb leaf springs. The ride will be stiff and rough but you will be able to haul your max allowable 2000lb GVWR. So thats probly not what your looking for in an offroad trailer.

Lets say you go with a 3 leaf pack (675lb) spring.

Axle capacity: 2000lb
Combined spring capacity: 1350lb
Trailer weight(dry): Approx 500lbs

Payload: 850lbs

Throw on a RTT, Propane tank, spare tire, tools, camping gear, ect... and you're pretty close to maxing out your trailer now. So you can play around with the numbers and pretty figure out how the trailer will ride with some simple math.
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:06 AM   #30
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Subbed........
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:22 AM   #31
jberry813 [OP] jberry813 is offline
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I won't be using trailer leafs for that exact reason.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:31 AM   #32
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I wonder if an oem set of Taco springs would suffice? Worthless in the truck but perfect for a trailer
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:34 AM   #33
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:09 AM   #34
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Off the shelf trailer springs are clearly not the best option, even though that's what I'm using. For anyone else watching this thread and thinking about building a trailer, do yourself a favor and skip the 2000lb axle and go for the 3500lb axle. It's way too easy to max out the smaller axle. And those axles are designed to be primarily road axles, not to be dragged at high speed down rough dirt roads and dragged over rocks. The 3500lb axle will hold up great and the cost is more than reasonable. I paid $150 for my custom width, custom lug pattern 3500lb axle with the full spring kit.

So like MapleMoose mentioned the springs I got with mine were matched to the axle so my springs are totally overkill on the stiff side. I get very little flex from the springs unless the trailer is fully loaded. This is why I run ~10-12psi in the tires. The tires eat up most of the bumps in the road. My trailer has worked well enough with this setup that I've never felt the need to change it.

Springs from a Tacoma or other vehicle will work but they'll be way too stiff if you use them without modification. You'll want to play with how many leaves you pull out to get the best balance of load capacity and a working suspension. But the longer leaves will be far superior to the short/stiff trailer springs.
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:24 AM   #35
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I agree with you there on the 3500lb Axle. I think a 1050lb 3 leaf pack would match up nice with the 3500lb axle for an offroad trailer. The springs would be soft enough to soak up bumps on rough roads yet strong enough to hold a good 2000lb load.
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Old 08-03-2013, 04:11 PM   #36
jberry813 [OP] jberry813 is offline
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I'll be using aftermarket lift springs designed for the front of a Jeep Wrangler YJ I picked up from Summit Racing.
They are 46" eye to eye, 5 leaf pack, 4" of arch, with a linear spring rate of 287 lbs/inch per spring (574 lbs/pair). The loaded weight of the trailer will be roughly equivalent to that of the front of a YJ. Combined with the 5" shackles I made, I anticipate it working well.
I'm not going to worry about shocks until the leafs are setup and cycled the way I want. But most likely I'll end up with a 2" shock body 6" travel shock with a little angle of dangle.

And the first delivery showed up today. Max coupler hitch...and the primary reason why I decided to stick with leafs. It wasn't cheap, hell it's closer to 10% of the overall budget, but I expect it to perform perfectly for my needs.

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Old 08-03-2013, 04:19 PM   #37
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Old 08-03-2013, 05:00 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jberry813 View Post
I'll be using aftermarket lift springs designed for the front of a Jeep Wrangler YJ I picked up from Summit Racing.
They are 46" eye to eye, 5 leaf pack, 4" of arch, with a linear spring rate of 287 lbs/inch per spring (574 lbs/pair). The loaded weight of the trailer will be roughly equivalent to that of the front of a YJ. Combined with the 5" shackles I made, I anticipate it working well.
I'm not going to worry about shocks until the leafs are setup and cycled the way I want. But most likely I'll end up with a 2" shock body 6" travel shock with a little angle of dangle.

And the first delivery showed up today. Max coupler hitch...and the primary reason why I decided to stick with leafs. It wasn't cheap, hell it's closer to 10% of the overall budget, but I expect it to perform perfectly for my needs.

That setup should be sweet. You might not need shocks. I've never ran any.

Jealous of the Max Coupler. Those are great. Don't forget to reinforce the end of the reciever tube.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:00 PM   #39
jberry813 [OP] jberry813 is offline
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It's .250 wall receiver tube.
I mean if I was bored I could, but on a < 2000 lb trailer it's just busy work.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:07 PM   #40
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Quote:
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It's .250 wall receiver tube.
I mean if I was bored I could, but on a < 2000 lb trailer it's just busy work.
It's the details bud....
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