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Old 12-21-2010, 09:26 AM   #1
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WOW screw IRIDIUMS

ok, so I AM IN NO WAY TRASHING ANYONE OR ANY PRODUCTS BUT I NEED TO TELL WHAT HAPPENED.

this is on my 2000 Tacoma 4x4

So, in october i installed the TRD supercharger but did not have the URD kit yet. I had regular multi ground plugs in, was using like 2 of those NOS brand fuel additives every other fill ups to suppliment the octane,,, still used 91 octane though.
the supercharger has a 2.1" pulley... so i think thats like 14psi right...?
K&N intake, gibson exhaust.
I was getting the same gas milage as before... like 18mpg, and was ok on ping unless i tried to get on it.
I got some 2 step colder iridium plugs to help out in the mean time while deciding what fuel mod to do. ngk bkr7eix

Gadget gave me an awesome deal on the 7th injector kit and told me to get rid of the k&n. I did like he said, installed the 7th injector kit and started noticing some issues:
-buzzing during certain rpm ranges (2200-2750) from the pcu
-ping in mid rang rpm in 4th and 5th and some times 2nd and 3rd
-fuel milage dropped by almost 30% (usually was getting like 75 miles to a 1/4 tank and went to between 55-60, mpg approx due to tire size and lift)
-humming sound from fuel pump
-felt kinda like the power wanted to be there but was being held back, rough feeling

did a new f.f. and rechecked install, talked to Gadget as much as i could since he was insanely busy with his other projects. we figured out the buzzing issue, and it helped the ping a lot as well, but still felt like a caged tiger and mpg was still horrible.
Asked Gadget if the plugs could be the issue since lots of ppl say that you should only run the dual ground plugs, he said it was not the cause and that all the dual grounds do is lengthen the life since our trucks fire twice each rotation or something like that
I recently finally found some multi ground plugs that were 1 step colder, denso K20TR11 since NGK doesnt make any that are available anymore and no one make a 7 heat range dual ground
Installed yesterday AND OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! immediatly felt difference!!!!
idle was WAY smoother, engine was quieter, throttle response is amazing, acceleration is amazing!!!!!, still got ping in 5th gear mid rpm range, but I have yet to tune the URD kit, so that may have some to do with it.
will be testing mpg this week but already have a great outlook since it is running way better.

So.... I ask.... who has a TRD SC with the URD 7th injector kit and Iridium plugs??? are they working ok??? Any issues you have???? mpg???

next i want to get the TRD low temp thermostat.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:35 AM   #2
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oh, here are the pics of the iridiums i pluled out, this is after about 5k miles

ps... just to clarify:

GADGET WAS AMAZING TO HAVE LISTENED TO ALL MY CONCERNS AND COMPLAINTS AND HELPED ME THE WAY HE DID, SO SPECIAL THANKS TO HIM AND TO CHRIS4X4 FOR ALSO LISTENING AND PUTTING HIS KNOWLEDGE IN.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:50 AM   #3
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2 problems here. Tacoma engines don't like iridium plugs from what I hear and you use NOS octane boost. Might as well pee in your tank.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
2 problems here. Tacoma engines don't like iridium plugs from what I hear and you use NOS octane boost. Might as well pee in your tank.
lol, I know those things arent the best, but I really felt a small difference when I would put them in. I did use 5 gallons of VP race fuel in a full tank once too, that was better, really felt it smooth out.

I have been tossing around the idea of after I tune the pcu if i still get pinging trying to find some supra 315cc injectors and put those in too.
I have a set of headers I am waiting to put on as well so I figure with the increased flow and IF I decide to open the deck plate mod for more air then I will really need more fuel.
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:02 AM   #5
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Any expert on what the spark plugs are saying? IMO looks like your tune needs some work. I have tens of thousands of miles on my iridiums no problem.

Also, IMO you do not need to play with primary injector size if you already have the 7th.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSportD View Post
Any expert on what the spark plugs are saying? IMO looks like your tune needs some work. I have tens of thousands of miles on my iridiums no problem.

Also, IMO you do not need to play with primary injector size if you already have the 7th.
there are tons of threads on issues with the changing from dual ground plugs,,, i know some ppl have not had isssues, but some have,, its odd. before i had the charger on put a set of ngk standards in and the same thing happened with the fuel milage. thats the odd part,,, some ppl say they are great,,, some say they are horrible.....

yeah please if there are more ppl with experiences either good or bad or any experst please comment
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:33 AM   #7
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and i was thinking of the primary injectors bigger "IF" after the tune i still am getting ping. but again, I have not tuned it so I very well could fix it with just that.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:45 AM   #8
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Well at first I said that these engines did not like iridium plugs but now that I searched there are plenty of guys running them and not having problems. Maybe the plugs went bad prematurely due to a tuning error and the same will happen with the new plugs. I would invest in a wide band 02 sensor to keep tabs on what is going on.
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:02 PM   #9
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tune that poor truck!
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:08 PM   #10
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^^ x2, that is what I meant. Those plugs you have pictured look horrid. It is the signs of very bad a/fs, or high temps such as from ping. I was asking for someone who has thorough experience "reading" spark plugs. In the old days that was the mechanics method of tuning- running quality and the pulling of plugs to read if the tune was rich or lean.

I know of a custom tacos post that showed a problem with iridiums being the little electrode breaking from ping, thus developing a miss. Your electrodes seem to be in tact, the plugs look very fouled though.

IMO another knock against iridium is of them not lasting nearly as long as advertised. Running adversely cold plugs, and/or bad tunes accelerate fouling. I would not be surprised that by running dual or tripple electrode, this somewhat compensates as a band-aid to the original issue causing the iridium not to perform correctly. It is important to have a solid tune, and for the plugs to reach their self cleaning temperature frequently enough.

Tuning for ping is a combination of fueling and ignition timing.
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:23 PM   #11
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can't say about availability but in GM engines with FI irridium is a big nono. Most all FI GM engines run NGK TR6 plugs.
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:13 PM   #12
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I am not sure what to make of the build up on those plugs. The additive you have been using may have something to do with it.

In all these years we have been shipping Denso Iridium plugs this is the first complaint we have had. It could be that the screw on tops where not tightened before install or there was a poor connection with one of the coils or wires.

I run Iridium pluts in everything there has always been an improvement when they were installed.

Anyway, Toyota is installing Iridium plugs in all the new vehicles now so Toyota engines do like them...

Now on to the real important things. The 5th gear ping is not likely a fueling issue. You may just need to add a little timing retard to fix it up. What you do not want to do is install larger primary injectors. The URD 7th injector kit can provide all the fuel needed to supply that TRD Supercharger and have plenty of head room left over. Increasing the primary injector size will give you way to much fuel.

That build up is just odd. You may have a lot of it in the combustion chamber. This can raise compression and induce knock. You may want to consider having a MotorVac treatment done to clean all that crud out of there and it also super cleans the injectors restoring the stock flow.

http://www.motorvac.com/

Call them up and ask them to refer you to a shop near you.

G
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget@URD View Post
I am not sure what to make of the build up on those plugs. The additive you have been using may have something to do with it.

G
yep.

regarding the brown color-

several years ago i had a 12.3:1 compression single cam honda tuned with an apexi power FC stand alone. i ran copper plugs in that engine, and as wide of a gap as possible considering the circumstances - i had an MSD box and a external coil. the problem was plugs would wear FAST in that engine - i'd run NGK bkr7e-11 and the center electrode would round off with the quickness. at any rate, changing the plugs often meant i would see the condition, and when i would run NOS octane boost, the stuff that was in the silver can that said contained nitromethane, they would come out brown like that. EXACTLY like that. i believe MMT to be the culprit.

i stopped using it, changed the plugs when they wore out, ran normal 94 (at the time) and never had that brown color show up again. i ended up cracking a ring land at one point several years later (bad gas) and had to pop the head off - the piston tops and CCs looked normal.
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mylittletacoma View Post
lol, I know those things arent the best, but I really felt a small difference when I would put them in. I did use 5 gallons of VP race fuel in a full tank once too, that was better, really felt it smooth out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget@URD View Post
I am not sure what to make of the build up on those plugs. The additive you have been using may have something to do with it.

In all these years we have been shipping Denso Iridium plugs this is the first complaint we have had. It could be that the screw on tops where not tightened before install or there was a poor connection with one of the coils or wires.

I run Iridium pluts in everything there has always been an improvement when they were installed.

Anyway, Toyota is installing Iridium plugs in all the new vehicles now so Toyota engines do like them...

Now on to the real important things. The 5th gear ping is not likely a fueling issue. You may just need to add a little timing retard to fix it up. What you do not want to do is install larger primary injectors. The URD 7th injector kit can provide all the fuel needed to supply that TRD Supercharger and have plenty of head room left over. Increasing the primary injector size will give you way to much fuel.

That build up is just odd. You may have a lot of it in the combustion chamber. This can raise compression and induce knock. You may want to consider having a MotorVac treatment done to clean all that crud out of there and it also super cleans the injectors restoring the stock flow.

http://www.motorvac.com/

Call them up and ask them to refer you to a shop near you.

G

I believe the problem can be found in the first quote....

Did the OP use 5 gallons of LEADED fuel??? Thats a big no no....
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Freek View Post
I believe the problem can be found in the first quote....

Did the OP use 5 gallons of LEADED fuel??? Thats a big no no....
no, it is the blue unleaded race fuel.

Gadget, I know you know your stuff and are way busy and all, so thank you for that web site, i will ask about that.

I do think I REALLY need to tune, I just dont have the money right now for a wideband. I have been trying to get enough saved to get that dual gauge from plx through Gadget, that way i can monitor boost and wideband.


the other problem I am having is I STILL CANT GET MY LAPTOP TO HOOK UP CORRECTLY TO THE PCU. lol, everytime i hook it up when it starts to connect and read my lap top blue screens and shuts down.
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:09 AM   #16
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i think after I tune I will try to go back to iridiums,,,, i still have the brand new ones Gadget sent w/ the kit.
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:37 AM   #17
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lol, love that, have you ever drank thos??? they are kinda good.

Yeah, see there are like 50/50 splits about iridiums. I think alot has to do with the pcu still not being tuned.

hopefully i can get that fixed soon.
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:15 AM   #18
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Dang man you need a tune, and until you get it tuned you really should stay off the throttle.

Those plugs are that color because of the additives. I would bet that if you didn't use the additive, it would be much easier to tell that you've been too lean too often because the color would be much lighter instead of the orange from the additives. Also it looks like theres some traces of detonation on them as well, that or electrodes have rolled on the ground a little bit.

About the iridiums, in my experience with my turboed eclipse, they don't like boost. This is also widely spread knowlege on the DSM forums. When I ran them in my eclipse I had to run a tighter gap and they fouled out much quicket then a regular copper plug even though it was in the stock heat range. Compared to a regular copper that I run one step colder at a wider gap that last much longer.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenkaiTaco View Post
Dang man you need a tune, and until you get it tuned you really should stay off the throttle.

Those plugs are that color because of the additives. I would bet that if you didn't use the additive, it would be much easier to tell that you've been too lean too often because the color would be much lighter instead of the orange from the additives. Also it looks like theres some traces of detonation on them as well, that or electrodes have rolled on the ground a little bit.

About the iridiums, in my experience with my turboed eclipse, they don't like boost. This is also widely spread knowlege on the DSM forums. When I ran them in my eclipse I had to run a tighter gap and they fouled out much quicket then a regular copper plug even though it was in the stock heat range. Compared to a regular copper that I run one step colder at a wider gap that last much longer.
i agree re: the tune and needing to DEFINITELY stay out of it until said tune occurs.

but about iridiums and boost - that is either internet fodder, a tune/defective product issue, coil issues or something else. iridium plugs at this point are preferred for many boosted applications, including OE. for instance, my last vehicle, a mazdaspeed3, had them OE and still Cobb tuning recommends certain iridium plugs for increased boost levels seen through tuning with their accessport product.

they aren't some mystery science or anything that different from regular copper plugs. they are just more robust/durable and more efficient. the basic ideas and function are the exactly same but with different materials.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:44 PM   #20
taco? like the kind you eat?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenkaiTaco View Post
About the iridiums, in my experience with my turboed eclipse, they don't like boost. This is also widely spread knowlege on the DSM forums. When I ran them in my eclipse I had to run a tighter gap and they fouled out much quicket then a regular copper plug even though it was in the stock heat range. Compared to a regular copper that I run one step colder at a wider gap that last much longer.
yeah, I use the cheapo's in my girls gst spyder, used the cheapo's in my widebody turbo mr2 also, this is the first time i have ever used iridiums, and i really never thought they were all that great even in my bike.

problem with the tune thing is i still cant get my lap top to work properly with the pcu and r4 software Gadget sentme, also I dont have my wideband anymore.
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