Help with CAI, Exhaust, and MAF calibrator

[maverick491]

Ok, I know that all these topics have been done to death all over this board, and I have spent the last several hours reading through most if not all of them, but am still kind of fuzzy on how it all works and if it will do what I want it to.

Background info... I have a 2007 4x4 access cab, with the 4.0 and 6 speed manual. This truck is not my daily driver, but is primarily used for weekend trips running solo, or for pulling our 3750 pound travel trailer.

That said, I do not really feel the need for more power, the truck manages the travel trailer just fine, however running solo I am only seeing about 20.2 MPG and with the trailer in tow I am down to 10.7 to 11.5 MPG. I have 2500 miles on the truck thus far, and know as I close in on 5000 the mileage will get a little better, and at the first oil change when I put the Mobil 1 in it will also improve a little.

I have heard that an intake and exhaust will yield more power and fuel economy; however, I am of the belief that to gain one you loose the other. I also know that if you expect to get anything out of either mod then the MAF sensor needs to be re-calibrated. I am also under the impression that the 4.0 engines run rich, and to my understanding the CAI will exacerbate that condition. I assume that by running rich in general the fuel mileage suffers. Is it really as simple as plugging in the URD MAF sensor calibrator and leaning up the mixture a bit to get better mileage?

Also is it realistic to expect that if I installed the TRD CAI, Banks or TRD exhaust, and URD MAF sensor calibrator (36RWHP total) that the MAF calibrator could correct the mixture so that the increased power would not cause the predicted decrease in mileage. In your opinion would I still see in the 21-22 MPG (solo) and maybe up to 12.5 MPG range (towing) after the switch to synthetic? Or am I trying to have my cake and eat it to?

Last question, since I am not feeling a need for more power while towing or running solo (though more power is always nice anyway) is there really a point to doing any of this or have I just been spending too much time on here and contracted the MOD bug?

Thanks for your time, and I hope I have not rambled too much.

[Spyder327]

Originally Posted by maverick491

Ok, I know that all these topics have been done to death all over this board, and I have spent the last several hours reading through most if not all of them, but am still kind of fuzzy on how it all works and if it will do what I want it to.

Background info... I have a 2007 4x4 access cab, with the 4.0 and 6 speed manual. This truck is not my daily driver, but is primarily used for weekend trips running solo, or for pulling our 3750 pound travel trailer.

That said, I do not really feel the need for more power, the truck manages the travel trailer just fine, however running solo I am only seeing about 20.2 MPG and with the trailer in tow I am down to 10.7 to 11.5 MPG. I have 2500 miles on the truck thus far, and know as I close in on 5000 the mileage will get a little better, and at the first oil change when I put the Mobil 1 in it will also improve a little.

I have heard that an intake and exhaust will yield more power and fuel economy; however, I am of the belief that to gain one you loose the other. I also know that if you expect to get anything out of either mod then the MAF sensor needs to be re-calibrated. I am also under the impression that the 4.0 engines run rich, and to my understanding the CAI will exacerbate that condition. I assume that by running rich in general the fuel mileage suffers. Is it really as simple as plugging in the URD MAF sensor calibrator and leaning up the mixture a bit to get better mileage?

Also is it realistic to expect that if I installed the TRD CAI, Banks or TRD exhaust, and URD MAF sensor calibrator (36RWHP total) that the MAF calibrator could correct the mixture so that the increased power would not cause the predicted decrease in mileage. In your opinion would I still see in the 21-22 MPG (solo) and maybe up to 12.5 MPG range (towing) after the switch to synthetic? Or am I trying to have my cake and eat it to?

Last question, since I am not feeling a need for more power while towing or running solo (though more power is always nice anyway) is there really a point to doing any of this or have I just been spending too much time on here and contracted the MOD bug?

Thanks for your time, and I hope I have not rambled too much.

ok lets see here...

If i remember correctly the truck advertises 21mpg freeway so averaging 20.2 is pretty good IMO. As far as adding intake and exhaust, power and MPG may see slight benefit but the MAF calibrator is what would really help to unlock the potential.

The way it works is that the MAF calibrator splices into the ECU wiring and gives you control over how much fuel to add/remove. Keep in mind you will need either a wideband or a dyno to check/adjust the AFR.

Leaning out the AFR mixture some should help to gain MPG even after adding performance mods, as you stated.

Where did you get a figure of 36rwhp from the mods you stated?

As far as whether it's worth it or not, thats up to you because results can vary plenty with different trucks and setups...

[maverick491]

Originally Posted by Spyder327

ok lets see here...

Keep in mind you will need either a wideband or a dyno to check/adjust the AFR.

Where did you get a figure of 36rwhp from the mods you stated?

...

36RWHP... I may be off here, but my thinking was that if the truck is rated at 236 at the flywheel and 195 at the wheels stock, then that already accounts for all the driveline loss that there will be and therefor anything else you do to the truck will all translate to the wheels (perhaps that is a naive assumption). As for the numbers TRD says 11 horse on the intake. URD said that the calibrator comes with a map installed that "finds" 15 RWHP over stock, and while I found no actual numbers for the TRD or Banks exhaust most of the other systems I looked at tonight said 10 horse so I just through that number in there, so that is where i got the 36. That is of-course assuming that I am correct and that driveline loss does not continue to increase as power increases.

Also, if you would be so kind as to explain the wideband thing... what and how that works, as that would seem to be the way to go rather than to pay someone to beat that snot out of my truck on a dyno all day. I was under the impression that the MAF calibrator just needed a computer and a serial port to tune to the mods.

Thanks again

[Spyder327]

Originally Posted by maverick491

36RWHP... I may be off here, but my thinking was that if the truck is rated at 236 at the flywheel and 195 at the wheels stock, then that already accounts for all the driveline loss that there will be and therefor anything else you do to the truck will all translate to the wheels (perhaps that is a naive assumption). As for the numbers TRD says 11 horse on the intake. URD said that the calibrator comes with a map installed that "finds" 15 RWHP over stock, and while I found no actual numbers for the TRD or Banks exhaust most of the other systems I looked at tonight said 10 horse so I just through that number in there, so that is where i got the 36. That is of-course assuming that I am correct and that driveline loss does not continue to increase as power increases.

Also, if you would be so kind as to explain the wideband thing... what and how that works, as that would seem to be the way to go rather than to pay someone to beat that snot out of my truck on a dyno all day. I was under the impression that the MAF calibrator just needed a computer and a serial port to tune to the mods.

Thanks again

I'm confused on what your saying about the power #'s so ill try to explain it how i see it.

236hp is rated at the flywheel, like you said. Therefore to the wheels on an average truck will likely be about 200-205rwhp. Temp, type of dyno, etc will affect the dyno numbers on different trucks so the only way to know your REAL rwhp gain would be to do a dyno before those mods, and then again afterwards.

Now as far as those mods go, don't get your hopes up about hitting 36rwhp from that mod list. Combining the hp #'s like that from what different products claim doesn't usually work like that. The "11hp" from the TRD intake would likely be to the flywheel, like (5-7rwhp) if it's even that much. That intake is still drawing in air already heated by the engine bay..

Dont get me wrong, i'd love to see you hit 36rwhp from those mods, but i highly doubt it will happen.

The way the MAF calbirator works:

Splices into the ECU wiring, essentially giving you control over the injectors to tell them how much fuel you want. The calibrator is a box that has a serial port, to which you can plug in a laptop. (or convert it to USB and then plug it into a laptop). The included software will look like a spreadsheet with a bunch of different cells. inside those cells will be the number 10. "10" represents how much the injectors inject from the factory setting. putting 9.9 or lower in a certain cell will cut fuel. The reason you will need a wideband O2 sensor or a dyno is because you will not know what the Air/fuel ratio is to begin with. You will need feedback to know where to cut or add fuel in certain areas.

Does that make sense?

[maverick491]

Originally Posted by Spyder327

Now as far as those mods go, don't get your hopes up about hitting 36rwhp from that mod list. Combining the hp #'s like that from what different products claim doesn't usually work like that. The "11hp" from the TRD intake would likely be to the flywheel, like (5-7rwhp) if it's even that much. That intake is still drawing in air already heated by the engine bay..

Dont get me wrong, i'd love to see you hit 36rwhp from those mods, but i highly doubt it will happen.

The way the MAF calbirator works:

Splices into the ECU wiring, essentially giving you control over the injectors to tell them how much fuel you want. The calibrator is a box that has a serial port, to which you can plug in a laptop. (or convert it to USB and then plug it into a laptop). The included software will look like a spreadsheet with a bunch of different cells. inside those cells will be the number 10. "10" represents how much the injectors inject from the factory setting. putting 9.9 or lower in a certain cell will cut fuel. The reason you will need a wideband O2 sensor or a dyno is because you will not know what the Air/fuel ratio is to begin with. You will need feedback to know where to cut or add fuel in certain areas.

Does that make sense?

It mostly makes sense.

I can re-wire anything in my house or travel trailer, and understand everything there is to know about trailer brakes and controllers, however I am thinking I am a bit over my head when it comes to re-programing the engine computers. I do understand what you are telling me I am just not sure I have the experience or knowledge to know how to translate what the wideband display would tell me and then convert that into what the callibrator wants.

As far as the numbers go I figured that the driveline loss was constant and therefor you could just stack mods and add their advertised gains. If that is not the case, then unless this list of proposed mods would do anthing significantly positive for my mileage then I suppose it is not something that I really need to do as I really do not find myself wanting for power.

I was just trying to understand that interrelations of everything since years ago I put an intake and exhaust on my old ford and went from 12 MPG to 10.

Thanks for your input.

[Spyder327]

Originally Posted by maverick491

It mostly makes sense.

I can re-wire anything in my house or travel trailer, and understand everything there is to know about trailer brakes and controllers, however I am thinking I am a bit over my head when it comes to re-programing the engine computers. I do understand what you are telling me I am just not sure I have the experience or knowledge to know how to translate what the wideband display would tell me and then convert that into what the callibrator wants.

As far as the numbers go I figured that the driveline loss was constant and therefor you could just stack mods and add their advertised gains. If that is not the case, then unless this list of proposed mods would do anthing significantly positive for my mileage then I suppose it is not something that I really need to do as I really do not find myself wanting for power.

I was just trying to understand that interrelations of everything since years ago I put an intake and exhaust on my old ford and went from 12 MPG to 10.

Thanks for your input.

The MAF calibrator isn't actually very difficult to install, it's a matter of splicing 5 wires and connecting the calibrator wires to them. As far as tuning goes, the software URD uses is actually pretty user-friendly.

Unfortunately nowadays you cant really expect the kinds of gains most companies promise. And of course every truck and results are different.

If you do decide to go with mods like the Calibrator, etc. but don't fully understand the tuning, just let me know and i can help you through it (but you will HAVE to have a wideband or be at a dyno shop).

FYI: the most rwhp i have heard of with intake and exhaust mods was Gadget's truck (engineer for URD). He was able to make 31rwhp with URD's 3" exhaust, Y-pipe, intake, and MAF calibrator.

Gadget created this guide to help people do their own tuning:
http://www.gadgetonline.com/U-Tune.pdf

[007Tacoma]

Originally Posted by Spyder327

The MAF calibrator isn't actually very difficult to install, it's a matter of splicing 5 wires and connecting the calibrator wires to them. As far as tuning goes, the software URD uses is actually pretty user-friendly.

Unfortunately nowadays you cant really expect the kinds of gains most companies promise. And of course every truck and results are different.

If you do decide to go with mods like the Calibrator, etc. but don't fully understand the tuning, just let me know and i can help you through it (but you will HAVE to have a wideband or be at a dyno shop).

FYI: the most rwhp i have heard of with intake and exhaust mods was Gadget's truck (engineer for URD). He was able to make 31rwhp with URD's 3" exhaust, Y-pipe, intake, and MAF calibrator.

Gadget created this guide to help people do their own tuning:
http://www.gadgetonline.com/U-Tune.pdf

This Thread has some EXCELLENT information in it about aftermarket tuning! Thanks guys!

[maverick491]

Originally Posted by 007Tacoma

This Thread has some EXCELLENT information in it about aftermarket tuning! Thanks guys!

Mark, you are welcome.

Spyder327, thanks for the offer of assistance in the tuning process and I will probably take you up on it should I get that far. I still need to do a bit more research and determine if there is really going to be any mileage gains or if they will be appriciable enought to justify over $1300 that this will potentially cost.

Anyone else have any input as to the fuel savings potential of my proposed mods?

Thanks

[gegundez]

$1300 is not the problem for me, but splicing the wire is when dealing with a factory warr. I think I will approach this problem until i get the TRD SC and have the factory re-flash the computer when I am making some real power. I don't think that the 7-11hp from the CAI will affect mileage more than 1-2mpg and I can wait til the SC comes down in price, maybe with a group buy.

[m3dragon]

URD MAF sensor calibrator????

Ok I have been reading the post. Doesn't Toyota's software learn the increase in airflow and exhaust flow if you add a CIA and exhuast? Seems like you could do a lot of damage with the URD MAF sensor calibrator if you do not have a dyno.

Am I missing something?

[maverick491]

Originally Posted by m3dragon

URD MAF sensor calibrator????

Ok I have been reading the post. Doesn't Toyota's software learn the increase in airflow and exhaust flow if you add a CIA and exhuast? Seems like you could do a lot of damage with the URD MAF sensor calibrator if you do not have a dyno.

Am I missing something?

No you're not missing anything, Toyota's software does learn the increase in air and exhaust flow, but it still "learns" and adjusts based on it's own pre-exhisting really rich fuel map. Example if you increase your airflow with a CAI then the toyota computer will simply increase the fuel flow to compensate for the now increased airflow. Thereby taking your already running rich condition and making it worse.

And Yes, without a dyno and a wideband you can seriously F up your engine, so you have to absolutely know what you are doing before taking on this mod. Hence the reason I asked the questions in the first place, and also why I am still on the fence about doing it, and am exploring other tuning and fuel saving options as noted in other threads.

[m3dragon]

Originally Posted by maverick491

No you're not missing anything, Toyota's software does learn the increase in air and exhaust flow, but it still "learns" and adjusts based on it's own pre-exhisting really rich fuel map. Example if you increase your airflow with a CAI then the toyota computer will simply increase the fuel flow to compensate for the now increased airflow. Thereby taking your already running rich condition and making it worse.

And Yes, without a dyno and a wideband you can seriously F up your engine, so you have to absolutely know what you are doing before taking on this mod. Hence the reason I asked the questions in the first place, and also why I am still on the fence about doing it, and am exploring other tuning and fuel saving options as noted in other threads.

Powerchips and others like it work good for other car brands. I was reading that people on here think they are a waste. Is this a forum agreed verdic or just a few people?

I run powerchips in my M3 which I am not to happy with. I had another brand and liked it WAY better. Maybe do a poll to see what people have installed?

[maverick491]

Originally Posted by m3dragon

Powerchips and others like it work good for other car brands. I was reading that people on here think they are a waste. Is this a forum agreed verdic or just a few people?

I run powerchips in my M3 which I am not to happy with. I had another brand and liked it WAY better. Maybe do a poll to see what people have installed?

Not sure if I'd call it a "verdict" I think that Spyder and I are the only ones who chimed in on the "one size fits all" chips being as bad for your engine as tuning a URD MAF calibrator without a wideband and a dyno.

Because I am too lazy to type it again check this post in a thread that we've already chatted on. link

[m3dragon]

Originally Posted by maverick491

Not sure if I'd call it a "verdict" I think that Spyder and I are the only ones who chimed in on the "one size fits all" chips being as bad for your engine as tuning a URD MAF calibrator without a wideband and a dyno.

Because I am too lazy to type it again check this post in a thread that we've already chatted on. link

Ya I have seen that thread. I can find it again so no worries. I guess it comes down to can I get access to a dyno or not. Other wise can software seems to be the safe way to go.

[Toy4Life]

I'm still in a 1st gen, but props to all involved in this thread. These are some very well thought out questions and answers.

[m3dragon]

who are the players for software?

I am new to Toyota.

UMR
Powerchips?
?
?
?
?

[Viet2100]

Huh??

[m3dragon]

Originally Posted by Viet2100

Huh??

Out of all these Software vendors, none offer anything for the 2007 Tacoma at this time. Let me know if I missed anyone.

* AEM
* Bully Dog
* Davis Instruments
* DiabloSport
* Edelbrock
* Edge
* Escort
* Hypertech
* Jet
* Predator by Dr. Performance
* SCT
* Superchips
* Unichip
* Venom

Hope that clears the huih..

[Spyder327]

Originally Posted by m3dragon

Out of all these Software vendors, none offer anything for the 2007 Tacoma at this time. Let me know if I missed anyone.

* AEM
* Bully Dog
* Davis Instruments
* DiabloSport
* Edelbrock
* Edge
* Escort
* Hypertech
* Jet
* Predator by Dr. Performance
* SCT
* Superchips
* Unichip
* Venom

Hope that clears the huih..

I'm pretty sure that unichip does make one for the 05+ tacomas...

...but here the problems with chips like those. They're made by someone who may not live anyone near you, or at your elevation, etc. The idea behind those chips is the same as the idea behind URD's MAF calibrator. The only difference is that you cant tune those chips yourself once you get them. If Unichip or whoever else tested/tuned that chip on a truck to get there results than it's all fine as long as you live right by them. But at different elevations and conditions, those chips could essentially effect your air/fuel ratio in ways it was not intended to do. The MAF calibrator can instead be adjusted for your specific truck. Also, you can always clear the map that comes with the calibrator if you think your truck is running too rich/lean. That way you can leave it installed, but have it essentially do nothing until you can get to a dyno for tuning.

[nd]

Originally Posted by m3dragon

Powerchips and others like it work good for other car brands. I was reading that people on here think they are a waste. Is this a forum agreed verdic or just a few people?

I run powerchips in my M3 which I am not to happy with. I had another brand and liked it WAY better. Maybe do a poll to see what people have installed?

What kind of M3 do you have? My buddy had a1990 M3 that i loved and i had a 1990 325i that was my baby. I'm a big fan of the e30 body style.