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Performance Engine Build

Discussion in 'Performance and Tuning' started by NfiniteZERO, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. Apr 14, 2014 at 3:19 PM
    #1
    NfiniteZERO

    NfiniteZERO [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys.

    I've been following Torpsd and Gadget's engine builds on here and XR-Underground and the bug has bitten me hard :D

    Right now I'm looking to find an extra engine/engine block to start building this bad boy. I've got a few leads that I'm checking out right now but if there are some words of wisdom to be shared, I'll gladly listen.

    The only question that comes to mind - I'm planning on using Darton's MID sleeves in my build. If I can find a seized engine and pay less for it, would it be worth while?
     
  2. Apr 14, 2014 at 3:55 PM
    #2
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    What's up man? Ohhh, to be bitten by that bug. ;)

    You can. Keep in mind that you will most likely have to replace the crank, if it is damaged. OEM ones aren't that expensive. Doesn't matter if you are planning on getting a forged crank though.

    As far as having something wrong with the OEM cylinders, due to being "seized", no, that won't matter since the whole cylinder is being machined out and replaced.

    If an engine had rod knock, then the heads need to be cleaned thoroughly, including removing the screen filters from each head. That all the metal shavings can be cleaned out.

    Who are some of the parts vendors that you have considered?
     
  3. Apr 14, 2014 at 4:11 PM
    #3
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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  4. Apr 14, 2014 at 4:44 PM
    #4
    NfiniteZERO

    NfiniteZERO [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Good to know :thumbsup:

    Here's the parts I'm looking at present -

    Darton for the sleeves. Going with a 98mm bore and pairing it with Brian Crower's stroker kit for ~4.7L displacement. Not too sure on compression ratio since I'm on the fence for N/A or F/I. Might just mirror stock ratio.

    Engine Management - URD UCON. I'll wait until Hell freezes over if I have to :D

    Valvetrain/Cams - Not really to sure what work would need done here, aside from repairing any damage.

    I was going to build something similar to my 22RE in my '93 before I got my new truck. Mostly for the learning experience and a side project, but also definitely for the :burnrubber:.
     
  5. Apr 15, 2014 at 5:24 AM
    #5
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    If I had know back in time how long my engine build would take.......I would have planned for s much larger bore as well.

    It will be a beast, at a the size you are planning.

    Cams can be had, but they just aren't easy to come by. Relatively. Web Camshafts remakes the stock cams to the customer's requirements. $16-1800 for that. Kelford sells new camshafts, but it takes someone having an account with Motovicity, to be able to import them. They are about $1400.

    Depending on the cam profiles, it can greatly take advantage of the larger liter size and wake up the engine. Especially coupled with oversized valves. Tried and true for other engines, but still on paper for ours. (At least for now. ;) )
     
  6. Apr 15, 2014 at 8:29 PM
    #6
    NfiniteZERO

    NfiniteZERO [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I see at Dezod that you can go 1mm oversize on the valves. Yum yum yum.

    Part of the problem choosing a cam profile is that I haven't chosen either N/A or F/I - but I think anything beyond a street level tune would be overkill.

    I'm very curious what else you would have done, knowing what you know now. :)
     
  7. Apr 16, 2014 at 6:15 AM
    #7
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    I would have gotten the sodium filled valves. Titanium and Inconel. As well as got the Brian Crower rods that are rated for 300 hp per hole, with Aged 625+ rod bolts.

    Titanium rods would be even better, but those are for the true ballers. ;) Pauter is the brand that I have, and is also who makes the Titanium rods. I know a guy who has a set for the 1GR. Not saying who though. :)

    The thing about my cams, despite being for my turbo application, is that even for N/A they will still flow a lot. Being that there is much more lift and duration than stock. Just doesn't have overlap on the LSA, for that scavenging effect, which is geared to N/A setups. As well as S/C.

    Dezod built Clifford's stroker engine. We installed it two weeks ago. Runs so smooth, and even quieter than stock, with the same exhaust as before. Very impressive! He is just waiting to get it tuned now, for his turbo setup.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
  8. Apr 16, 2014 at 8:06 PM
    #8
    NfiniteZERO

    NfiniteZERO [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. Seems like I need to factor those into my plans. I do know that I am planning on the stout rods from BC. And I think I'll go with the oversize valves too.

    I think I'll go for a N/A or S/C cam profile. All my pondering has me leaning toward the TRD S/C if I were ever to get into boost since I'll be doing more hauling and towing. Probably no smaller than the 2.85 pulley.

    The good news is that I'm back home and there might be an engine or two to check out at local salvage yards. :)
     
  9. Apr 17, 2014 at 12:38 PM
    #9
    NfiniteZERO

    NfiniteZERO [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Before I get too much further, here's my transcribed chicken-scratch pile of notes so far:

    Short block-
    -Darton MID sleeves, bored to 98mm
    -B Crower Stroker kit (103mm stroke)
    -Oil pan spacer (Coupe still makes these, right?)

    Heads/Valvetrain
    -Cam Target Profile - N/A Street (I'm guessing these are good for S/C per your post??)
    -Valves - 1mm oversize w/ new springs and gaskets
    -Heads - Port/Polish

    Other stuff:
    -NST Lightweight Pulleys? Their site shows that it doesn't fit on the 2013 V6 for some odd reason
    -Need to figure out what must be done at a machine shop vs can work on at home
    -Used TRD supercharger (don't think these exist :( - at least from what I can find)

    EDIT - NST is showing up under X-Runner trim, not under "ALL" like the FJ Cruiser.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  10. Apr 17, 2014 at 6:26 PM
    #10
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    NST doesn't sell pulleys for the Tacoma anymore. Be warned, they will gladly take your money still......
    You'd be better off just upgrading the idler bearings to some low friction ceramic bearings, and getting an ATI Super Damper crank pulley.

    Ahhh yes. The Oil pan spacer. He is the only one who sell them. I still preach that every engine that has the shallow oil pan, needs that upgrade. A lot cheaper than the factory upper and lower oil pans.

    I know of an MK2 (3 ?) for sale for the cost of the TRD s/c. ;) The reflash would get you by until you got a wire in EMS.

    Obviously though, the TRD unit is just easier, being that you have a '13.
     
  11. Apr 17, 2014 at 8:17 PM
    #11
    NfiniteZERO

    NfiniteZERO [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Added to the DO-NOT-BUY-FROM list. Right below Allen Phillips Racing.

    Maybe I need to chat with the G-man about boost. I was under the impression that a Roots-style would be better served for truck applications as the boost kicks in sooner (i.e. for towing/hauling purposes) . Maybe I'm understanding wrong :confused:

    Either way, boost is going to be secondary until I get the engine built...which may be a while. I'm hoping to have it ready right when the factory warranty expires and I'm at 12k miles/1yr. :D
     
  12. Apr 17, 2014 at 8:30 PM
    #12
    StAndrew

    StAndrew Wait for it...

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    URD uses Rotrex S/C's. Their internal drive system does a good job of giving a combination low and high end boost.

    To be frank, I dont think there is a 100% valid argument either way when it comes to roots vs centrifugal style forced induction, it really comes down to each specific product.

    URD's S/C is very competitive against the TRD blower and while I can't be sure who wins the low end power argument, its a very close call. That said, Im pretty sure URD wins in high end boost :thumbsup:

    Problem with Titanium/Alu rod is it they will fatigue quicker than steel rods. If he is just daily driving, shouldn't be an issue any time soon, but if he is racing... probably going to need a rebuild every few years depending on how hard he pushes and how much he boosts (could be every year). Shit gets mighty $$$. Like you said, gotta be a "true baller" :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  13. Apr 20, 2014 at 4:16 PM
    #13
    NfiniteZERO

    NfiniteZERO [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing (since I am still learning quite a bit about all this) that the Titanium rods function similarly to lightweight pulleys (less moving mass = quicker rev'ing of the engine). More than likely, something I'm not going to worry about. I'm thinking BC's aged steel rods might be overkill, but I'm still planning this all out.

    Haven't had the chance to call over to URD and talk S/Cs with them yet due to work and the holiday weekend. If I can get the level of performance (DD/do work truck) I'm looking for with URD's S/C, I'll be more than happy to incorporate it into my plans.

    Still haven't gotten around to calling scrapyards due to work this week. This week isn't looking too promising for that either....
     
  14. Apr 20, 2014 at 5:21 PM
    #14
    StAndrew

    StAndrew Wait for it...

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    Correct on the Ti rods. Alu rods are the same but much cheaper. Unfortunately Ti and Alu fatigue and have a finite life span, needing regular rebuilds. Ive even heard some race engines with Ti rods can be rebuilt every 40-80 hours of run time :eek:

    I would recommend H beam R&R steel rods: http://www.rrconnectingrods.com/steel-connecting-rods/steel-connecting-rods.html

    Probably some of the best on the market. Very $$$ though (billeted not forged).

    If you are interested in learning more about URD's kits, check out the Rotrex S/C's here: http://www.rotrex.com/Home

    I can tell you Gadget will most likely let you know his SC's are superior to TRD's in every way. While he is probably right, just be wary, from my experience (and others), he tends to sell URD's brand more than provide quality advice :notsure:
     
  15. Apr 20, 2014 at 7:01 PM
    #15
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    "Like It Says I Have Urd Mk2 Blower For Sale!!! It Will Be For Everything But The Fuel Pump. Y'all Know What They Look Like Plus IM On My Phone So Can't Post Pics, Can Text Them To U If Wish. I'm Asking 3k Plus Shipping. It Has I Believe Under 20,000 Miles I Bought It Off Here Last Year And I Let It Just Sit Here For A Long Time!"

    From a guy on XRU.
     
  16. Apr 21, 2014 at 6:47 AM
    #16
    StAndrew

    StAndrew Wait for it...

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    OP, you better jump on that! These deals don't come around very often :cool:
     
  17. Apr 21, 2014 at 10:07 AM
    #17
    NfiniteZERO

    NfiniteZERO [OP] Well-Known Member

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    That is a great price and I'd love to jump on it. However, It would take me a bit to get the $3000 needed.

    Just don't have that kind of cash lying around :-/
     
  18. Apr 21, 2014 at 1:22 PM
    #18
    StAndrew

    StAndrew Wait for it...

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    Sounds to me like its time to get a credit card! Everyone is doing it, even the government :p
     
  19. Apr 21, 2014 at 5:09 PM
    #19
    NfiniteZERO

    NfiniteZERO [OP] Well-Known Member

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    If only it were that simple, man. If it were only that simple...

    Between bills, truck payments, and a wedding I'm a bit stretched at the moment. Overstretched probably.
     
  20. Apr 22, 2014 at 3:31 PM
    #20
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    Wedding gift!
     

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