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Old 07-19-2009, 07:53 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by silver07taco View Post
You lost to a civic and a golf WTF!
Fuck you lol
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:24 PM   #22
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We need superchargers man. I want to get one before I leave for Afghan. If not, deffinately as soon as I get back.
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Old 07-20-2009, 01:01 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socolax91 View Post
Hey jax,

So my reaction time was a 1.044. I was very disappointed with my performance but it was my first time. I ran a 15.6. If my r/t had been .000 does that mean that theortically I would have ran a 14.6?
Edit: In a word...no.
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Old 07-20-2009, 02:37 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09WhiteTaco4x4 View Post
In a word...yes.

elapsed time (e/t) + reaction time (r/t) = race time (total time).

You have a 14-second truck. The times that are quoted in magazines when they rate vehicles are e/t's, not total times. This is to standardize for individual variations in reaction times.

BTW, I think it has been shown that no one's r/t's are less than 0.500 seconds unless they cheat.

I hope this clears up your question.
Thanks but it doesn't. Jaks said when I PMed him this...

I said this:
Hey jax,

So my reaction time was a 1.044. I was very disappointed with my performance but it was my first time. I ran a 15.6. If my r/t had been .000 does that mean that theortically I would have ran a 14.6?

He said this:
no sir it doesnt. r/t just means how long it took you to roll forward and start your run. only time reaction time means anything is in bracket racing.

Am I just not understand what both of you are saying?
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:54 AM   #25
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The tree timing depends on what's class they set it as. There is a .000, .400, .500 tree. All the difference is the timing in the drop of the ambers.

Your e/t is that, your e/t. The time it took you from the time you broke the starting beam, to the time you past the last one.

Now to deide who wins the race at the end during the test and tune style setup they do as he said above. They take your e/t and your r/t and add them together, then you compare it to the opponents times.

Your r/t will never effect your e/t though. Its just the time it takes you to roll from the staging beam to the start beam. Watch some videos of turbo diesel trucks on youtube. Takes them forever to spool and they have r/ts in the multiple seconds and still run 10 and 11 second e/ts.

Hopefully this helps a little, I'm typing from my phone at the moment so its hard to go into full detail with links for added help.
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Old 07-20-2009, 12:20 PM   #26
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Think about this way. Suppose you were racing and when the light turned green your truck stalled (pretending it was a manual). Let's say you had a reaction time of 4.5 seconds giving you a total race time of 19.0 seconds. This does not mean that your truck is now in the same class as the Honda Insight's and Hummer H3's of the world. Your truck still only took 14.5 seconds to run the 1/4 mile. You just had a VERY crappy launch.

This is why when comparing vehicles, the e/t's are used.
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Old 07-20-2009, 02:35 PM   #27
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That is totally false. Reaction time has nothing to do with e/t for the 100th time. to decide who wins the race, the r/t is added onto the e/t and then subtracted from each other. the r/t is not subtracted from your e/t.


Look at one of my old slips. Im in the left lane, 05 mustang gt in the right.



take .201 + 14.649 = 14.850 which would be my time that it took me to make it to the end of the track once the green light dropped.

then, .481 + 14.493 = 14.974 which is the mustangs total time from the drop of the green.

its obvious just by the total times who won, but subtract the 14.850 from 14.974, and you get .1245 that I beat him by.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:39 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09WhiteTaco4x4 View Post
Sorry, but jax' response is confusing, if not incorrect. Your run of 15.6 includes both your e/t (the time it takes from the moment your truck crossed the starting line until the moment it crosses the finish line) and your r/t (the time it takes from the moment the tree turns green until the moment you cross the starting line).

Your total time of 15.6 is your "racing time", the time that determines who wins the race. This is based on both your reaction and launching skill (the r/t) as well as the speed and acceleration characteristics of your vehicle, among other things (your e/t).

To get your vehicle's quarter mile time, you take your total time (15.6) and subtract your r/t. So if you did have an impossible r/t of 0.000, then you would have run a 14.6. You ran a 15.6 because it took you a full second from the time the tree turned green until the time you actually crossed the starting line. This time does not factor into the time the vehicle makes is quarter mile run.

Hopefully this helps.
This is not true. The 15.6 is the E/T, not the 'race time'. I've never seen a timeslip with a 'Race Time' as you describe. The winner of a race is determined by who crosses the finish line first. The numbers posted on the boards when someone crosses the finish line is the 1/4 ET and MPH, not the 'Race Time'.

E/T: Elapsed Time, aka the time elapsed between when you break the staging lights until the time you cross the finish line.

R/T: Reaction Time, aka the amount of time between when the light turns green and you brake the staging lights

R/T has no no impact on your E/T at all.

This 'Race Time' that you are trying to describe would be the E/T PLUS the R/T, not the other way around. That is why if you take his ET + RT, and the ET + RT of his competitor, subtract the difference, you'll get that 'Winning Margin' number you see on the bottom of his slip.

Golf
R/T: .915
E/T: 15.324
Race Time: R/T + E/T = 16.239

Tacoma
R/T: 1.062
E/T: 15.657
Race Time: R/T + E/T = 16.719

Winning Margin: 16.719 - 16.239 = 0.480



Quote:
Originally Posted by 09WhiteTaco4x4 View Post
Think about this way. Suppose you were racing and when the light turned green your truck stalled (pretending it was a manual). Let's say you had a reaction time of 4.5 seconds giving you a total race time of 19.0 seconds. This does not mean that your truck is now in the same class as the Honda Insight's and Hummer H3's of the world. Your truck still only took 14.5 seconds to run the 1/4 mile. You just had a VERY crappy launch.

This is why when comparing vehicles, the e/t's are used.
When comparing vehicles, E/T shouldn't be used, way to many driver-inputted factors involved. E/T should only be used as a comparison between similar vehicles when comparing the two drivers.

MPH is used to compare vehicles, as MPH represents the vehicles raw power and is hardly influenced by the driver (unless they don't go WOT, or mess up a shift real bad, etc)
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Old 07-20-2009, 04:19 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxchrisfla View Post
That is totally false. Reaction time has nothing to do with e/t for the 100th time. to decide who wins the race, the r/t is added onto the e/t and then subtracted from each other. the r/t is not subtracted from your e/t.
Where did I say that you subtract your r/t from your e/t? And where did I say that e/t had anything to do with r/t?
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Old 07-20-2009, 04:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viet2100 View Post
I launch at 2500 RPMs and consistently run low 9s...


in your tacoma????

in the quarter mile???
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Old 07-20-2009, 04:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09WhiteTaco4x4 View Post
Where did I say that you subtract your r/t from your e/t? The 15.6 was his total time, not his e/t. What I did say was that your e/t + r/t = race time (total time). The 15.6 that the OP ran was the sum of his e/t (14.6) and his r/t (1.0) = 15.6 (total).

It sounded like he wanted to know if he had a 15-second truck or a 14-second truck. I was just trying to say that conventionally, you don't include the r/t when you're talking about the speed of your vehicle, since r/t's vary from driver to driver. The times listed in magazines like Car & Driver etc. are usually e/t's, not e/t + r/t.
you're still not getting it.

e/t is just that, elapsed time. he did not run a 14.6, look at his slips, he ran the 1/4 mile(e/t) in 15.657. so then his "total time" is 16.719 according to you.

He has a 15 second truck, point blank.
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Old 07-20-2009, 04:53 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxchrisfla View Post
you're still not getting it.

e/t is just that, elapsed time. he did not run a 14.6, look at his slips, he ran the 1/4 mile(e/t) in 15.657. so then his "total time" is 16.719 according to you.

He has a 15 second truck, point blank.

Edit: WTF...I could have sworn somewhere that I saw a e/t of 14.6....My head is playing tricks on me!!!

Okay, the 1/4 time on the slip is actually the e/t. Why didn't they say so?!?! We could have avoided this unnecessary confusion in the first place? lol

Yes, the 15.6 time is the e/t, so to the OP, you have a 15-second truck.

I know how all of the e/t's, r/t's work, etc. What I didn't realize was how the time slips were printed. My bad.
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:00 PM   #33
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To further add to this conversation...

I have raced at quite a few different tracks all over this country, and not a single time slip I have ever received has had a 'race time' on it, nor have I heard of anyone referring to a 'race time' in all of my racing career . E/T and margin of finish is where it ends. In bracket racing you can figure you total 'package' which is your (reaction time - perfect reaction) + (E/T - Dial-In) granted you did not break out, this equation works.

There are three basic types of 'trees.' You have a .500 bracket tree (standard), .500 pro tree, and a .400 pro tree (standard). There is no such type of tree that is called a .000 tree, although in recent years many tracks have went to a standardized .000 (perfect) reaction time. This is to help uneducated spectators better understand the sport with less complication. Many tracks still use the .500 (bracket racing) and .400 (pro tree) reaction time standards.

On a .500 bracket tree, the .500 signifies the amount of time each of the three ambers will be powered with electricity. Each amber will be 'on' for exactly .500 seconds. Using a .500 reaction time standard, .500 is perfect. Using .000 as a standard, .000 is perfect. You are still running a .500 bracket tree, regardless of what the ticket says your reaction time is, either, .005 (example) or .505 (equivalent to .005)

Now, another good example. With a .400 pro tree, the .400 again signifies the amount of the that the ambers will be powered. In the case of a pro tree, all three ambers will be lit simultaneously. They will stay lighted for .400 seconds and a perfect light is .400. A .000 reaction time standard can also be used here but is just another way of reading the same number.

Finally, I'm sure everyone understands this by now, but just to clarify. Your reaction time does not in any way Effect your E/T. Period. However, the distance you are from the second and third staging beams will. In other words, if you roll in and pre-stage then fully stage the vehicle, stop right where you are and keep the vehicle staged as shallow as possible. This will keep your reaction times consistent (given you yourself can be consistent) and allow for an extra run at the third beam which in turn, will give you a quicker E/T. (only a slight difference, but still a difference)

Hope this ends some of the confusion here.
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:08 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC4333 View Post
To further add to this conversation...

I have raced at quite a few different tracks all over this country, and not a single time slip I have ever received has had a 'race time' on it, nor have I heard of anyone referring to a 'race time' in all of my racing career . E/T and margin of finish is where it ends. In bracket racing you can figure you total 'package' which is your (reaction time - perfect reaction) + (E/T - Dial-In) granted you did not break out, this equation works.

There are three basic types of 'trees.' You have a .500 bracket tree (standard), .500 pro tree, and a .400 pro tree (standard). There is no such type of tree that is called a .000 tree, although in recent years many tracks have went to a standardized .000 (perfect) reaction time. This is to help uneducated spectators better understand the sport with less complication. Many tracks still use the .500 (bracket racing) and .400 (pro tree) reaction time standards.

On a .500 bracket tree, the .500 signifies the amount of time each of the three ambers will be powered with electricity. Each amber will be 'on' for exactly .500 seconds. Using a .500 reaction time standard, .500 is perfect. Using .000 as a standard, .000 is perfect. You are still running a .500 bracket tree, regardless of what the ticket says your reaction time is, either, .005 (example) or .505 (equivalent to .005)

Now, another good example. With a .400 pro tree, the .400 again signifies the amount of the that the ambers will be powered. In the case of a pro tree, all three ambers will be lit simultaneously. They will stay lighted for .400 seconds and a perfect light is .400. A .000 reaction time standard can also be used here but is just another way of reading the same number.

Finally, I'm sure everyone understands this by now, but just to clarify. Your reaction time does not in any way Effect your E/T. Period. However, the distance you are from the second and third staging beams will. In other words, if you roll in and pre-stage then fully stage the vehicle, stop right where you are and keep the vehicle staged as shallow as possible. This will keep your reaction times consistent (given you yourself can be consistent) and allow for an extra run at the third beam which in turn, will give you a quicker E/T. (only a slight difference, but still a difference)

Hope this ends some of the confusion here.
now that this post helps clear up the differences in tree setups, 09whitetaco4x4 just realized he misread something awhile back, and now makes things even more clear.

hopefully the OP is not severely confused now.
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:39 PM   #35
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Okay, I finally figured it out. lol

The 1/4 listed on the slip is the e/t. The 0.48 difference listed on the bottom is the sum of the better r/t and better e/t by the Civic and is the actual "race-winning" difference. Got it!

Now that we're all on the same page, I acknowledge that the "race time" I said earlier was something I used to distinguish between e/t and r/t (and what I though the 15.6 on the slip represented for some odd reason, causing all of the confusion in the first place), it is not an official term. My question is, is there a term that describes the time you get when you add e/t + r/t? If this is what actually determines the winner of a race, why isn't there a word for it? Just curious.

I hopefully deleted all of my previous confusing posts...feeling like a bit of a jack@ss right now...lol
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:07 PM   #36
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Its all good man. That's what makes forums good. We are all here to help.

Helping sort out correct info, incorrect, and misinterpreted information is what makes a forum strong.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:10 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dud122 View Post
in your tacoma????

in the quarter mile???

Originally Posted by Viet2100
I launch at 2500 RPMs and consistently run low 9s...



can we clear this up???
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:13 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XrunnIT View Post
Its all good man. That's what makes forums good. We are all here to help.

Helping sort out correct info, incorrect, and misinterpreted information is what makes a forum strong.
X2

Quote:
Originally Posted by dud122 View Post
Originally Posted by Viet2100
I launch at 2500 RPMs and consistently run low 9s...



can we clear this up???

I'm sure hes speaking of 1/8th mile times.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:16 PM   #39
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Can someone give me some input?

I thought I would gave a faster truck than a 15.6. I mean I was told at one point I would run a 14.7. And silver07taco ran his truck stock and ran a 15.3. So I've spent $1,000 and have made a slower truck?
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:21 PM   #40
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SC4333 is one of the sharper tools in the shedSC4333 is one of the sharper tools in the shedSC4333 is one of the sharper tools in the shedSC4333 is one of the sharper tools in the shedSC4333 is one of the sharper tools in the shedSC4333 is one of the sharper tools in the shedSC4333 is one of the sharper tools in the shedSC4333 is one of the sharper tools in the shedSC4333 is one of the sharper tools in the shedSC4333 is one of the sharper tools in the shedSC4333 is one of the sharper tools in the shed
Name: Grant
Joined: Dec 2008, #11412
Location: San Antonio, TX
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SC4333's Tacoma Gallery
There are numerous variables that you have to take into account.

First off. What elevation is the track you ran at, and the track silver07taco ran at? What were the Density Altitude figures for that day. Track Temperature if you are having trouble hooking up, ambient air temperature, wind. A head on diagonal cross wind will slow you down more then any other type of wind.

All of the above mentioned are big determining factors of overall ET at any given track.
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