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Old 08-10-2009, 10:05 PM   #1
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Answer this chris

I just realized, an "answer this chris" section would be cool! haha

THAT is not the point of this thread.
Warning: these questions may be dumb.
Flaming will result in a $250,000 fine.


OK! so I'm sitting here talking about how my buddy just got a cold air intake for his old civic for 40 bucks from a pick a part, Then I realize, it's not cold at all... it has a power gain because it get's more air because of the cone rather than a box, but if anything it's hotter because the air is coming from the engine compartment rather than the wheel well. answer it.

Why doesn't the intake run to beside the radiator and point straight out the front? the air would be forced in the faster you go, and it would be colder than the engine compartment.

thanks!
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:18 PM   #2
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anybody? your name doesn't have to be chris to answer by the way
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:20 PM   #3
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my guess is that if the filter element in near the radiator it would be subject to water induction as well as projectile damage from bugs and rocks
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:25 PM   #4
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right, but a simple metal mesh grille type thing placed at the front would solve the projectile damage part.

as for water, that's very true... hmm

do you agree on a cold air intake being completely opposite? or am i missing something?
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:27 PM   #5
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theres 2 kinds of intakes Cold air or CAI and the ones that still have the filter element in the engine bay refered as RAM air intakes... a true cold air is usually set in the wheel well where there is no engine heat
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:30 PM   #6
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ahh, so when people talk about their new cold air intake, it's usually a RAM air intake. is the CAI just a RAM air intake but placed in the wheel well?
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:34 PM   #7
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i guess... a CAI filter is not located in the engine bay... the ram intake is
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:38 PM   #8
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ahh I see, I found this article, which also states that a RAM air is a system with a hood scoop, where the air is forced down the tube by your speed (much like what I was talking about in my first post)

Quote:
The Short Air Intake System is another form of a Cold Air Intake System.

Lets talk about both so you understand the difference and how they work.

The Short Air Intake System, (AKA: Ram Air Intake or Cold Air Induction) is a system that will untilize some type of external scoop that faces forward on the vehicle. Normally this is associated with a pair of snorkels, (Pontiac Grand AM GT Ram Air) or a single hood scoop like Camaro and Mustang.

This Ram Air System does exactly what its name implies. As the velocity of the vehicle increases, this creates wind pressure that is forced down the scoop(s) and into the intake manifold through the air cleaner. At speed, this acts somewhat like a turbo charger, without having all of the additional parts and plumbing. The drawback is that you will not benefit from its use until you are above 35 miles per hour. Other than that it is a regular Cold Air Intake System.

OK now onto the Cold Air Intake System. The Cold Air System replaced your stock air cleaner box and its plumbing with a simple tube that relocates the air intake to a position where it is picking up cold air from outside the engine compartment. Its normally a very smooth tube with a larger airflow capability than the stock filter system.

Yes depending on their location there can be a water hazard, but you are going to have to get the car pretty deep into the water before your engine is going to hydro-lock, (suck up the water). Rain and things of that nature are not a factor for this. Water droplets are not an issue, it is a completely submerged inlet that you need to be worried about.

Ok, now that we are through that, lets continue.

What you are doing in both cases is collecting the air from outside your engine compartment. This collects a colder air charge than inside the engine compartment, allowing the fuel management system to give the engine a denser air/fuel charge into the combustion chamber, (hence more horsepower).

The warmer air from your engine compartment is OK for fuel economy, but because is has less oxygen molecules than a cold air charge, the fuel will be leaned out. This increases your fuel efficency, but decreases your horsepower.
So when people get a "CAi" that just runs a flashy chrome tube to a cone and stops under the hood, it's really got nothing to do with "cold"air but just the fact that the cone get's more air than a box with a small opening.

and it is also not a ram air system because it's not being forced in at all...
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:45 PM   #9
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u got the Cai part right, chrome tub in engine bay not cold air but gets more air eadier b/c of large tube and filter element
the ram air part im not sure about... i dont know any cars of current that use the hood scoop as air induction, older cars with air cleaners... so idk about what that article is sayin
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:52 PM   #10
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on the new Subaru wrx sti, the scoop run straight into the intercooler, but that IS different of course.
true, I dont know of a vehicle where the air is forced in by speed...

so essentially my 01 came with cai stock... it gets air from the wheel well, so a good mod might be to delete the air box, replace with tube, and put a cone on the end for a filter... the only downfall I see is the 180 degree turn it has to make and changing the filter would be a b*tch!

on another note, has anyone done anything with the hood scoop on the 2nd gen's?
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:59 PM   #11
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what everyone on here says is the deck plate mod is the best horsepower gain for a first gen
and i have seen someone that bought a truck with the hood scoop used that way but havent been able to find it again
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:04 AM   #12
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yea i did the elbow mod instead of the deck plate...

Maybe a deckplate mod with a tube to get the intake to the front to force the air in would work.
it would work the same for offroad as you would just put the deck plate cover on, but for on road the air would be forced in...
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
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I dont know of a vehicle where the air is forced in by speed...
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:21 AM   #14
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Perfect! your the technician, so get in on this... would it be better to run a tube through a 180 degree turn into the wheel well and to a cone?

how about from the air box to the front of the truck to get the intake to work like that trans am?
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:51 AM   #15
09 but I drive a 012 Expedition...
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I did this research cause there is a NEVER ENDING argument on which intake is better, Short Ram or Cold Air, on the Mazda forums and the most straightforward way of putting it is a ram air is a short tube usually run for about a foot away from the throttle body and into a conical filter in the engine bay behind the radiator where hot air is abundant but traveling at speed air is forced into the filter. There is a TQ gain over a HP gain with a ram air and it usually isn't good for city driving.

Cold Air is mounted out in front of the radiator behind the grille (for these trucks it seems) but for most passenger cars they run a pipe from the throttle body down to the inside of the wheel housing black plastic (whatever it's called) where it connects to a conical filter. Usually you get a higher HP gain than TQ because you are sucking in cold air from the wheel well instead of forcing it in through the radiator which produces a more efficient burn.

The massive downside to a CAI is that you can hydrolock...the massive downside to a ram air is that you suck in hot air and get less power and fuel economy. Still don't know which one is worse but they both provide a slight power gain in their own way.

Personally I would go for a CAI over a ram air but I'm too scared of hydrolocking. So I just stay stock.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:54 AM   #16
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well, I dont care if my truck goes FAST but I want it to pull like a mofo, it does pretty good already, I'm going to look at some options under the hood right now and see what I can think up.
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:01 AM   #17
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Not much room to work with under there, seems like you could do a very short RAM air though...

what about getting the intake tube close behind the fan? think there is any way of getting something out of that?
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
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well, I dont care if my truck goes FAST but I want it to pull like a mofo, it does pretty good already, I'm going to look at some options under the hood right now and see what I can think up.
CAI but intakes really don't do much to help with engine speed, they're more fuel economy if anything and in that case, you usually have to get an intake and exhaust otherwise you could (not saying it always happens) wind up just getting worse economy. Sport going in to non-sport going out doesn't equal power power power. Some cases you have to have sport going in and sport coming out to get the power and efficiency that you want...sometimes.
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Not much room to work with under there, seems like you could do a very short RAM air though...

what about getting the intake tube close behind the fan? think there is any way of getting something out of that?
It would still be a short ram because!...it wouldn't have easy access to a cold air supply, it would still be too close to the engine to breathe colder air.
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:11 AM   #19
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right it wouldn't get cold air, but maybe more air.
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:14 AM   #20
09 but I drive a 012 Expedition...
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That would probably do something. If the fan is blowing air directly onto the filter and into the pipe then it could be a better sort of short ram intake. Just gotta find somewhere to secure the pipe.
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