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Old 06-02-2008, 10:05 AM   #21
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The header can be ported to match the diameter of the exhaust port. Most aftermarket headers are too small or they don't line up correctly and then you would port match the headers to the head.
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Old 06-15-2008, 01:35 PM   #22
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Headers, Cats, Muffs?

How can we get more power from the Exhaust?

Headers= How much performance

Cat Back= How much more performance

What about the cats? can they be removed? Modified(say if it were for off road use only) would the ad gain?

I Don't care about sound, only GAINS
I was thinking of getting a full exhaust(headers all the way back) and what ever it took with the Cats....off or on....What the hells is the best situation? :-)


Any pros on this subject!
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:24 PM   #23
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I'm not a pro, so take my advice for what it's worth.

There are a lot of products out there. They all claim to have various increases in HP/Performance which vary from 5hp to 10 or 15hp.

I personally don't see how you could get much gain from a new muff if you have the factory heads and intake still on. With just a basic understanding of the engineering behind engines, I would think you would need to have the same amount of diameter leaving the engine all the way back to really make a difference.

I do think that removing the cats would help. Doing so would remove a lot of restriction, but again, if the muffler isn't high flow enough, it probably won't matter.
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:19 PM   #24
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I am just going to let the TRD exahust rust off and run straight SS pipes from the headers out the back and be done with it.
I`ll have them bent behind the rear wheels so the gas does not annoy the tail gate op.
That small 4.L six mill can`t make too much noise.
I may preempt it. That is national policy now.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_knox69 View Post
How can we get more power from the Exhaust?

Headers= How much performance
Best case for headers is about 8 h.p.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_knox69 View Post
Cat Back= How much more performance
Best case, about 7 h.p.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_knox69 View Post
What about the cats? can they be removed? Modified(say if it were for off road use only) would the ad gain?
Toyota cats flow rather well, you could get a couple of h.p. by loosing them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_knox69 View Post
I Don't care about sound, only GAINS
I was thinking of getting a full exhaust(headers all the way back) and what ever it took with the Cats....off or on....What the hells is the best situation? :-)


Any pros on this subject!
Exhaust gasses dont flow like a constant flow of air thru a pipe. They are pulses. Everytime the piston goes up in the stroke pushing the gasses out of the cilynder, it goes thru the exhaust as a "puff" of exhaust. In front of this pulse, is a positive pressure wave. Behind the pulse is a negative wave. The negative wave actually helps fill another cilynder with air ( or the same one, depending on the cycle timeing of the pistons) by creating a slight vaccume in the combustion chamber. If you speed or slow down this process by increasing the diameter of the pipe (allowing the gasses to cool to soon, thus slowing them down), or by reducing restrictions in the system, it affects the overall efficiency of the engine, altering how much of a "scavenging effect" the exhaust pulses have on the intake charge in the cilynder. By going with a higher flowing cat, and exhaust, and muffler, you may gain some h.p. in the upper rev. range, but you will loose power at the bottom. And vice versa. Too much restriction, and you loose on the top. I have found the best gains to be had with a quality header, stock cats, 1/4" increase in the dia. of the "Y" pipe, 2.5" pipe to and from a Dynomax Super Turbo muffler. This set up has shown a 1-2 h.p. gain to about 2000 rpm, 4-7 from there to 3500 rpm, and from 3500 to 5500 rpm a gain of 8 and a peak of almost 16 h.p.
FWIW, Im working on an exhaust system that actually ovals out the pipes in the bends, very similar to this:
http://www.hardracing.com/Exhaust%20...ronSerpent.htm
Im thinking that it will keep exhaust velociy up, and without turbulance. A Mandrel bent pipe still has "hot spots" indicating turbulance in the bends.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:25 PM   #26
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Exhaust

Hey sounds realistic....... SO Why would someone want to spend 1000 bucks on headers/pipe/cats/muffler for a few horses?

I don't want it for the sound.

thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
Best case for headers is about 8 h.p.


Best case, about 7 h.p.


Toyota cats flow rather well, you could get a couple of h.p. by loosing them.



Exhaust gasses dont flow like a constant flow of air thru a pipe. They are pulses. Everytime the piston goes up in the stroke pushing the gasses out of the cilynder, it goes thru the exhaust as a "puff" of exhaust. In front of this pulse, is a positive pressure wave. Behind the pulse is a negative wave. The negative wave actually helps fill another cilynder with air ( or the same one, depending on the cycle timeing of the pistons) by creating a slight vaccume in the combustion chamber. If you speed or slow down this process by increasing the diameter of the pipe (allowing the gasses to cool to soon, thus slowing them down), or by reducing restrictions in the system, it affects the overall efficiency of the engine, altering how much of a "scavenging effect" the exhaust pulses have on the intake charge in the cilynder. By going with a higher flowing cat, and exhaust, and muffler, you may gain some h.p. in the upper rev. range, but you will loose power at the bottom. And vice versa. Too much restriction, and you loose on the top. I have found the best gains to be had with a quality header, stock cats, 1/4" increase in the dia. of the "Y" pipe, 2.5" pipe to and from a Dynomax Super Turbo muffler. This set up has shown a 1-2 h.p. gain to about 2000 rpm, 4-7 from there to 3500 rpm, and from 3500 to 5500 rpm a gain of 8 and a peak of almost 16 h.p.
FWIW, Im working on an exhaust system that actually ovals out the pipes in the bends, very similar to this:
http://www.hardracing.com/Exhaust%20...ronSerpent.htm
Im thinking that it will keep exhaust velociy up, and without turbulance. A Mandrel bent pipe still has "fot spots" indicating turbulance in the bends.
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Old 06-22-2008, 12:00 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post

Toyota cats flow rather well, you could get a couple of h.p. by loosing them.



Exhaust gasses dont flow like a constant flow of air thru a pipe. They are pulses. Everytime the piston goes up in the stroke pushing the gasses out of the cilynder, it goes thru the exhaust as a "puff" of exhaust. In front of this pulse, is a positive pressure wave. Behind the pulse is a negative wave. The negative wave actually helps fill another cilynder with air ( or the same one, depending on the cycle timeing of the pistons) by creating a slight vaccume in the combustion chamber. If you speed or slow down this process by increasing the diameter of the pipe (allowing the gasses to cool to soon, thus slowing them down), or by reducing restrictions in the system, it affects the overall efficiency of the engine, altering how much of a "scavenging effect" the exhaust pulses have on the intake charge in the cilynder. By going with a higher flowing cat, and exhaust, and muffler, you may gain some h.p. in the upper rev. range, but you will loose power at the bottom. And vice versa. Too much restriction, and you loose on the top. I have found the best gains to be had with a quality header, stock cats, 1/4" increase in the dia. of the "Y" pipe, 2.5" pipe to and from a Dynomax Super Turbo muffler. This set up has shown a 1-2 h.p. gain to about 2000 rpm, 4-7 from there to 3500 rpm, and from 3500 to 5500 rpm a gain of 8 and a peak of almost 16 h.p.
FWIW, Im working on an exhaust system that actually ovals out the pipes in the bends, very similar to this:
http://www.hardracing.com/Exhaust%20...ronSerpent.htm
Im thinking that it will keep exhaust velociy up, and without turbulance. A Mandrel bent pipe still has "fot spots" indicating turbulance in the bends.
Good write-up. I have been looking at several pictures on this subject and seems to me that the stock Toyota exhaust would actually flow better than the aftermarket headers if it weren't for the front cat's. I have also read that Toyota cat's don't restrict that much at all.

My question, does anybody make a aftermarket pipe connection off of the stock headers behind the front cat's, therefore removing the second cat's but still having a fitting for the sensors? This would eliminate one pair of cat's and run into the aftermarket muffler that I now have without throwing codes? Am I off on the way I'm looking at this?

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Old 06-22-2008, 02:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4x4trd View Post
Good write-up. I have been looking at several pictures on this subject and seems to me that the stock Toyota exhaust would actually flow better than the aftermarket headers if it weren't for the front cat's. I have also read that Toyota cat's don't restrict that much at all.

My question, does anybody make a aftermarket pipe connection off of the stock headers behind the front cat's, therefore removing the second cat's but still having a fitting for the sensors? This would eliminate one pair of cat's and run into the aftermarket muffler that I now have without throwing codes? Am I off on the way I'm looking at this?

If Im reading you correctly, check out URD. They have some good stuff. Check out the "pipe bomb". I think it is what you are looking for.
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Old 06-22-2008, 02:35 PM   #29
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FINALLY, Someone who knows what there talking about (or really sounds like they do ). Thank you for your input. You deserve some rep chris4x4.
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Old 06-22-2008, 02:37 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danusa View Post
I am just going to let the TRD exahust rust off and run straight SS pipes from the headers out the back and be done with it.
I`ll have them bent behind the rear wheels so the gas does not annoy the tail gate op.
That small 4.L six mill can`t make too much noise.
I may preempt it. That is national policy now.
I have dumps on my '69 Camaro, I can really feel the difference when I take the flanges off... Sounds a LOT meaner too.
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Old 06-22-2008, 02:57 PM   #31
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
chris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLOCKADE View Post
FINALLY, Someone who knows what there talking about (or really sounds like they do ). Thank you for your input. You deserve some rep chris4x4.
Thank you, my good man! In the last 11 years, I have learned alot about these trucks, what works, what doesnt, etc, and I have run many different mods on the dyno (70 or so runs on different vehicles), so I have a REALLY good idea of real world numbers, not seat-of-the-pants results.
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:55 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_knox69 View Post
Hey sounds realistic....... SO Why would someone want to spend 1000 bucks on headers/pipe/cats/muffler for a few horses?

I don't want it for the sound.

thanks
Someone might or might not do only those things. As soon as you get into the intake (Higher Flow Natual Aspiration or Force Induction), or any other modificiations (Valves, Cam Shafts, Weight Redux) you'll see the stuff chris was talking about- Different combinations work together REALLY well..and some are downright horrible.

You have to figure out what you want the truck to do and then work all your mods together to get that in the end.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:59 PM   #33
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if you can try to buy hearders, exhaust etc, not from TRD, they are a big waste of money for items you can buy elsewhere, for instance, gibson, downey and a few others make headers for half the price, and mbrp makes a sweet dual exhaust kit for cheaper than borla...shop around, also keep in mind what you have for an intake will help out lots
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:52 AM   #34
My other ride weighs 200 tons
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
If Im reading you correctly, check out URD. They have some good stuff. Check out the "pipe bomb". I think it is what you are looking for.
Thanks Chris that's what I was looking for. But at $300 + for a couple HP I'll have to leave it alone.
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:00 PM   #35
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
chris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4x4trd View Post
Thanks Chris that's what I was looking for. But at $300 + for a couple HP I'll have to leave it alone.
Any decent exhaust shop should be able to make you a nice "Y" pipe for a couple hundred dollars. A guy in AZ got a full Y-pipe back, 3" with a Flowmaster (), for under $300.00. Just call around.
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:38 PM   #36
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This thread is as good as any- I guess I'll throw this out there. Has anyone found a cat-back or full set up (non custom) that dumps out in front of the rear tire insted of behind it??

I'm thinking that in the next few months I'm going to get a set of DT Headers, the URD Y-pipe, and a MBRP tail, unless I can find an exhaust that goes out in front of the time. (I'll be getting the URD TCAI too)
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Old 07-17-2008, 08:15 PM   #37
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
chris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunesDoesTRD View Post
This thread is as good as any- I guess I'll throw this out there. Has anyone found a cat-back or full set up (non custom) that dumps out in front of the rear tire insted of behind it??

I'm thinking that in the next few months I'm going to get a set of DT Headers, the URD Y-pipe, and a MBRP tail, unless I can find an exhaust that goes out in front of the time. (I'll be getting the URD TCAI too)
I thought that Gibson makes one like that. Check with them. I think its called the "Side Swept" exhaust.
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Old 07-23-2008, 07:28 PM   #38
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just curious if anyone has tried to use an "x" pipe from cats to duel mufflers? If so how was sound and performance. I have a muffler shop that tells me they can probably do this for me.
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Old 07-23-2008, 07:44 PM   #39
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
chris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shedchris4x4 is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun1_us View Post
just curious if anyone has tried to use an "x" pipe from cats to duel mufflers? If so how was sound and performance. I have a muffler shop that tells me they can probably do this for me.
I have only used an "X" pipe to replace an "H" pipe. Give it a shot and report back.
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Old 07-27-2008, 09:46 AM   #40
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TRD does not make headers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BLOCKADE View Post
I was checking out TRD parts and accessories, and I came across the TRD headers and Borla exhaust. I've seen a lot of you guys with upgraded exhaust systems. If I'm going for the HP gain and mileage gain, then wouldn't it make sense to upgrade the headers? Is there any sense in upgrading the muffler if I don't upgrade the headers?

My thought is that the factory exhaust manifold is more restrictive than any muffler would be, even the factory muffler. Any thoughts on this?
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