Magnaflow versus Flowmaster ~ Showdown on the Dyno

Thanks, man.
I believe at least some of the results on the 2.7 might be extrapolated to your 4.0. The same Flowmaster should also flow slightly better than the same Magnaflow on a 4.0, because equal amounts of exhaust are still flowing through both... it's just more exhaust.

It definitely would sound better with two extra cylinders firing.

Getting a decent sound has always been a problem with 4 cylinders just because there are so few of them. I think I've got as good a sound as I can get with the present setup. And while the flowmaster is definitely louder than the Magnaflow, the tone is really pure, clear, deep, and smooth like a tuned Ferrari exhaust. There's absolutely no rasp or rice in it at all.

So here's all the components of the exhaust system:

1. LCE long tube header
2. Stock cat
3. Flowmaster Stainless steel 50 Series Delta Flow muffler
4. Long 2.25" OD mandrel bent exhaust pipe all the way to the rear of the vehicle


Greg

 

One more dyno comparison. This is the Flowmaster compared to the stock muffler. Even though the Flowmaster does better overall, they're still quite close.

 

The only mufflers on the Moderate/Mild-Stock side of the chart that fit our exhaust is the 50 Series Delta Flow, 60 Series Delta Flow, and the Super 50 Delta Flow. They say the Super 50 is more for high performance applications (large engines), so that is out. I had emailed Flowmaster many months ago asking which would be best for our engine, and if a turn-down is OK. They replied, "Hi Daniel I would go with our 50 series delta flow muffler 2.25 inlet and 2.25 outlet. it will give you the most performance and the best sound for your truck and when you do a turn down run at least 10-12 inches of pipe.". So, the muffler Tooter tested is probably the best for our little 2.7L engine!

The 70 Series would probably be quieter, but I'm thinking there would be a loss in performance. Not acceptable (for me).

I hadn't yet ordered a new muffler because I was afraid it would be too loud and sound ricey. After hearing Tooter's, I am sure I'll be very happy with the 50 Series Delta Flow! I have one more question to ask Flowmaster, then I'll be ordering mine . . .

 

I also came to this conclusion, I just hope the results would be similar with my 4.0!

 

Thanks for doing the comparison! I already knew I wanted a flow master for the sound (my bro has the super 40 on his an I LOVE it) but now I'm also convinced of the performance gain; while small, better is still better!

 

Much appreciation to Tooter for going to the time and expense to gather this info. But please be very careful about extending his results to the 4.0. The Toyota 4.0 seems to respond differently to performance mods then expected, given other engines. For example, headers, the 4.0 responds totally backasswards to short tube vs. long tube headers then every other engine I have seen.

Chris4x4 did a similar muffler effort on the 4.0 several years ago that does get referenced alot. His results had a Dynomax turbo muflfer "winning" with the Flowmaster "losing". As I recall though the difference between winning and losing was about 5hp at the high end. To me, these differences are not even relevant differences (same opinion on Tooters results, please don't hate!).

So, be careful about extending these results to the 4.0, pick your exhaust by sound, and don't increase pipe size if you want to maintain low end,,, IMHO.

 

In my opinion, at least some of that reason for different behavior just might be the Y tube which is still technically part of the header (which the 2.7 has none), because exhaust pulses from each bank are merging at a final collector. In fact, the length of the two runners might be instrumental in timing the merging of the exhaust pulses which could have a different affect on the torque.

A factory stock 4.0 also hits it's torque peak at 4,000 rpms which is a little higher than a stock 2.7.

It might be really interesting to take a look at some of the 4.0 dyno charts to see exactly what happens to the torque peak with various mods. That would give 4.0 owners the best idea of their 4.0's specific performance behavior.


Greg

 

This might sound silly, but I picked the Series 50 Delta Flow because it had the most doo dads inside!



It has the most Helmholtz resonators and the most delta flow plates.

Many of their other models seem better suited for large displacement and/or high rpm high performance engines, so I was concerned that the small slow turning 2.7 might not generate enough exhaust to fill the muffler enough for the acoustic features to work properly. It turned out to be a pretty good guess.

Greg

 

This test showed that a well designed chambered muffler can flow at least as good or even better than a straight through muffler. Heck, even the chambered stock muffler didn't do all that bad, and showed the power of factory R & D design engineering.

Greg

 

Search out Torsp's thread in the Perf section if you're interested. Quite a few 4.0 dynos for various combos, just not much for the simple mods...

 

One other note for you off road types to consider. When I spent much time off road, any vehicle we'd hunt/fish/off-road with ended up with seriously banged up exhaust pipes and mufflers. With the Flowmaster, or any chamber muffler, if you bang up the muffler, your move the internal baffles/plates around and this does/will affect how it flows, usually to a negative affect. Just a note when considering what to go with.

 

Nice work! I would add a caveat that it would be a different result for forced induction. The plates and chambers in the flowmaster would be a hindrance. Nice to see the comparisons for an n/a though. When I test drove a tacoma with the trd exhaust & intake vs stock, it felt so much more sluggish in the lower RPMs with the upgrades. I see the same with the difference in muffler design here. The flowmaster has a more restrictive quality, but that ends up working out better because you don't lose all the back pressure that you would want in a n/a setup.

 

Now that would all depend on which Flowmaster you used. A model that will flow a high performance big block V8 would certainly flow a small blown 6.

Thanks... and yes, the results aren't transferrable.

This is a fine point, but it's well worth an explanation...

It's not backpressure you want, but rather exhaust gas velocity that enhances low end torque.

Exhaust flow is not constant, it's a series of pulses created by the exhaust valves opening and pistons expelling the still expanding exhaust gases. Then the exhaust valves suddenly slam shut stopping the flow. So exhaust is constantly starting and stopping. But the exhaust gas possesses inertial velocity and once it is moving, it wants to keep moving. These waves of pulses are what enables scavenging.

The delta flow plates that split the flow create a low pressure area behind them that sucks the exhaust forward, so that it leaves the muffler at a slightly greater velocity than it enters.




(flow is from bottom to top)

Something else to note...
Look closely at the opening of the funnel opening at the top at the low pressure area behind the three plates. See how the lip turns outward? This acts similar to a one way valve to minimize exhaust reversion. It's much harder for the exhaust to go back than it is to keep moving forward. While it doesn't actually close like a blood vein one way valve.



It does favor forward exhaust motion because it allows the exhaust pulses to travel in the outward direction easier than they can to go back in the opposite direction.

It's all of these subtle well thought out design features working together within the Flowmaster that produced more favorable dyno results than the straight through Magnaflow muffler.

Having driven a fair amount of miles with both of them now, my engine performs better with the Flowmaster hands down... and markedly better at very low rpms.

Greg

 

I still have my magnaflow here and my flowmaster super 44 to test the theory of blown HP versus the two type of mufflers.


Just get someone to foot the bill for me and know its a heartbreak dyno

 

I call bs on your first point until I see a dyno jks . Like others have said, if you match up the proper flowmasters with the amount of exhaust your engine produces, it won't matter whether your muffler has plates or not. Some people will always think straight through type mufflers are better, and if that's you case no amount of dyno time is going to satisfy or change your opinion. More power to you to put a brand on your truck rather than some science!

I will give you that this dyno will not translate directly over to a V6 motor. However if someone gave me a muffler that matched up to my dual outlet super 40 I'd gladly pay dyno time to see the results, even though I'm extremely sure the results from each muffler will still be within a few percent if each other.

I totally agree with your second point that the high performance bolt on trd mods are a waste of time and money on a N/A motor. I unfortunately bought similar mods before supercharging and only found a real benefit from them once i was forced induction. I drove a new s/c'd x runner on lot while waiting for my s/c to be installed, and I definitely felt like my tacoma with cai and exhaust mods had more get up and go all the way across the range.

Anyways, these tacoma's need low end torque to do anything, whether it's getting off the line fast or towing a load, you need torque to get rolling. Any mods you do that get rid of the low end may help your truck on the track, but will certainly hurt the 99% of driving most people do on and off road.

 

You just explained why everything I do to my 2.7 is with the goal of enhancing low end torque. And while it does not make my truck fast. It does make it pull really good at low rpms with very little engine strain. This makes it ~feel~ like a much more powerful engine in normal driving even though it has little top end performance.

And speaking of normal driving. This is a compilation video how the Flowmaster sounds in a wide variety of normal light throttle driving conditions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBwx6WIfQTg

I absolutely love the sound!


Greg

 

I know you mentioned this before, but 15 pages
What shop did you have do the work, where did you get the muffler, and what was the installation charge?

Seriously thinking about getting mine done.
I live in the IE, but I work in the valley.

 

I get my exhaust work done here:

Labree Motorsports
21521 Strathern Street
Canoga Park, CA 91304
(818) 704-7950

The shop is just West of Canoga Avenue at the North side of the street. It's at the far end of an industrial mall.

Greg Labree does the finest exhaust work I've ever seen. He can do everything including scratch build custom headers. His is one of the very few shops around that has a mandrel tube bender. He installed my Flowmaster for $120.

I bought the all stainless steel Series 50 Delta flow off of ebay for $105 with no sales tax and free shipping. Flowmaster makes four different 50 Series muffler models for different engines and exhaust configurations. The 50 Series Delta Flow is specifically recommended for 4 and 6 cylinder engines.

Greg

 

Nice thread, thanks!

 

2.5 in and out, or would you recommend smaller on the outlet using the stock tailpipe configuration (behind the mudflap)?