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-   -   Rear Axle Upgrade Questions (http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/solid-axle-suspension/226398-rear-axle-upgrade-questions.html)

viperstd 06-26-2012 06:27 AM

Rear Axle Upgrade Questions
 
Howdy.

I have an 09 w/o a factory locker. I'm currently running 33" tires with a long-term plan of running 35s or 37s). It is a daily driver that hardly gets wheeled at the moment. It will get wheeled much more when I move!

I think my next upgrade will be a locking diff for the rear of the truck (want an ARB / an on board air system). I've started pricing out the upgrade and it is leaving me wondering a few things.

1) Upgrading the Toyo axle
  • 4.56 or 4.88 gears
  • ARB lockers
  • Truss?
  • $1,500-$2,000 ?

2) Build a Dana44 or 60?
  • new wheels (or adapters)
  • new driveshaft/flange
  • getting the brakes/ABS to work somehow
  • still need a locker
  • rock anchor while on 33s ?
  • If I'm going this extreme...might as well link it...
  • might end up in the $5,000-$8,000 range, right?

So, will a trussed toyo axle do what I want and should I save the money for upgrading the front (eventually) or do I start lighting my wallet on fire? I'm not ready to buy anything today.

I am ready to start laying out the direction of the build so I can begin the planning and acquisition of parts.

Thanks for any insight you can provide. Cheers.

thegame 06-26-2012 07:08 AM

All depends what your wheeling style is, are you heavy on the throttle? What type of wheeling do you plan to do? Rock crawling? Mud? Hill climbs?

viperstd 06-26-2012 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegame (Post 5294228)
All depends what your wheeling style is, are you heavy on the throttle? What type of wheeling do you plan to do? Rock crawling? Mud? Hill climbs?

Used to do trails in New Hampshire. Mix of jeepo trails and closed quarries. Plan is to move to Colorado as able... The dream is for an expo truck I can drive from Alaska down to the Andes and the Cape. I know the Taco isn't the ideal choice for that dream.

I am not looking for a hardcore rock basher. I try to wheel w/o tearing up the trails, so I avoid bogging through the deep mud and hammering the skinny pedal.

Thanks.

thegame 06-26-2012 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viperstd (Post 5294650)
Used to do trails in New Hampshire. Mix of jeepo trails and closed quarries. Plan is to move to Colorado as able... The dream is for an expo truck I can drive from Alaska down to the Andes and the Cape. I know the Taco isn't the ideal choice for that dream.

I am not looking for a hardcore rock basher. I try to wheel w/o tearing up the trails, so I avoid bogging through the deep mud and hammering the skinny pedal.

Thanks.

The Taco is a great choice for that, you just have to build it accordingly. I would keep the Toyota rear axle in that case. Since you just want an expo truck, keep the IFS to keep it comfortable and reliable, put 33's or 35's on, regear and call it done. I wouldn't personally throw 37's on IFS but I know the newer Taco's have a beefier front end than the older generation so 35's MAX. The ARB rear locker is reliable so no problems there. If you insist on trussing the Toyota axle, I wouldn't waste any time and call Brian at Diamond Axle and have him make you a complete replacement housing, you'll never have to worry about it again and IIRC a stock replacement Diamond rear housing is around $850.

I would say go a little more extreme with a straight axle and 37's but personally, I think that is money you don't NEED to spend in order to do what you want to do with the truck.

viperstd 06-26-2012 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegame (Post 5294995)
The Taco is a great choice for that, you just have to build it accordingly. I would keep the Toyota rear axle in that case. Since you just want an expo truck, keep the IFS to keep it comfortable and reliable, put 33's or 35's on, regear and call it done. I wouldn't personally throw 37's on IFS but I know the newer Taco's have a beefier front end than the older generation so 35's MAX. The ARB rear locker is reliable so no problems there. If you insist on trussing the Toyota axle, I wouldn't waste any time and call Brian at Diamond Axle and have him make you a complete replacement housing, you'll never have to worry about it again and IIRC a stock replacement Diamond rear housing is around $850.

I would say go a little more extreme with a straight axle and 37's but personally, I think that is money you don't NEED to spend in order to do what you want to do with the truck.

I'll check out the Diamond housings...


Based on their site, it looks like a diamond housing will gain me ~0.75" of clearance. I assume the tubes are much thicker than stock.
Can someone explain the real world impact of full float vs semi-float? Are the diamond axles setup for full float (tubes carry all of the load) and the stock is semi float (axles carry load)... or?
I don't insist on trussing an axle; I'm used to seeing it on a lot of built crawlers and 'runners and have come to associate it with strength. Is there a reason to not truss the factory axle (paper thin metal that will burn through perhaps?)? Is there a reason the diamonds aren't trussed?

In my heart I would love to do a SAS and run a D60 rear, a D60 front out of a new 450, and 37s, but when I start totaling up that bill and cross the $15,000 mark, I start to think I should just buy a Defender 110 and pimp that out instead. (I've wanted a 110 for a long time!).

Cheers!

battlescars 06-26-2012 05:00 PM

I would say go with 4.56 and a locker for 35's. I have one on my truck and it doesn't tear through tires on the street. It locks up only when you apply gas, so as long as you're not punching the gas around corners you will be happy with it.

Semi floater is basically what you have right now minus the brake drums. The axle shafts support the weight at the ends along with the bearings.

Full floater works kind of like your front end where the shafts slide through a spindle or snout allowing the pressure to rest on the bearings and snout which puts less stress on the axle shafts. This helps from shearing under torque and load from off-roading.

There are still a few options for the semi floater if you don't want to put a lot of coin into a FF such as mentioned earlier; axle truss and custom chromolly axle shafts.

Now you can upgrade your stock axle to become an FF with a conversion bracket, snouts, and custom shafts but it's not worth going that route when you can spend a bit more, get a stronger housing and build it with whatever parts you want.

maxamillion2345 06-26-2012 05:08 PM

9" D60 or 14 bolt gets my vote

sucks blowing up your rear end

viperstd 06-26-2012 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxamillion2345 (Post 5296980)
sucks blowing up your rear end

I can do that for $4.99 at TacoHell too. :D

viperstd 06-26-2012 06:18 PM

For comparison, does anyone know the wall thickness and material of the stock housing and Diamond housing?

Does anyone sell a pre-fit truss for the stock axle?

Supra TT 06-26-2012 07:48 PM

Stock housing? Like 1/4". Diamond is 3/8" or customized. Trusses really dont do as much as you think, unless you are doing KOH races.

erisman33 06-26-2012 09:19 PM

If your plan is run 37's and the biggest you want to run, I would go to the junk pull a tacoma 6 lug rear end for lets say 200 bucks ( probably on the high side) Buy Some chromo's from trail gear for 300 bucks buy whatever gears you want. I would run 4.88 if you want to dd with 37 or 5.29 if you want power but you want pull more than 65 at 3200 rpm's with a stock case with a ( 3.4 v6). Buy a decent locker and build it all with new seals and bearing and throw that bad boy in. If your not going to be jumping your truck or running 40's i wouldnt buy a diamond housing or rock aussult housing. Just my 2 cents which aint very much.

Hopefully all the info on here will get you educated and make the right choice for what you wanna run.:D

thegame 06-26-2012 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supra TT (Post 5297955)
Stock housing? Like 1/4". Diamond is 3/8" or customized. Trusses really dont do as much as you think, unless you are doing KOH races.

Stock housings are MUCH thinner than 1/4". If they were that thick, you wouldn't need a truss. If I had to guess, stock housings are 1/8" thick which isn't much. Probably why you see a lot of crushed axle housings right at the spring perch on first generation Tacos.

viperstd 06-27-2012 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battlescars (Post 5296940)
There are still a few options for the semi floater if you don't want to put a lot of coin into a FF such as mentioned earlier; axle truss and custom chromolly axle shafts.

Now you can upgrade your stock axle to become an FF with a conversion bracket, snouts, and custom shafts but it's not worth going that route when you can spend a bit more, get a stronger housing and build it with whatever parts you want.

So, can a Diamond housing be setup for for FF and still use the stock internals? (maybe upgraded CrMo shafts)? If it can, will it be closing in on D60 strength but w/ Toyo clearance?

Can I use the stock wheels/spindles/etc?

Again, I appreciate the help and lack of flaming everyone. I've done a bit of IFS/IRS work but never had an occasion to build an axle. FWIIW, I'm mechanically competent (built a few motors, motorcycles, do my own automotive work, used to do a bit of CAD/CAM, and welding), but I am just now learning about solid axle stuff.

:cheers:

Supra TT 06-27-2012 06:40 PM

To come close to a d60 in strength you need to at least run a LC third member. Or a 14bolt or a d60.

Stock internals are junk because they are so small. Just because you have a thicker axle housing, doesn't mean you will have a stronger axle.


Quote:

Originally Posted by thegame (Post 5298735)
Stock housings are MUCH thinner than 1/4". If they were that thick, you wouldn't need a truss. If I had to guess, stock housings are 1/8" thick which isn't much. Probably why you see a lot of crushed axle housings right at the spring perch on first generation Tacos.

Also, I was just guessing on the size wall. Too small for my taste.

erisman33 06-27-2012 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supra TT (Post 5303156)
Stock internals are junk because they are so small. Just because you have a thicker axle housing, doesn't mean you will have a stronger axle.

AMEN BROTHER...... :D I rather have a stock housing and chromo's than a built housing and stock internals.... :D its cheaper TOOO

viperstd 06-28-2012 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erisman33 (Post 5303810)
AMEN BROTHER...... :D I rather have a stock housing and chromo's than a built housing and stock internals.... :D its cheaper TOOO

I guess I'm trying to ask if a Diamond housing setup for FF, CrMo shafts, and Nitro gears will be in the D60 range.

I would like to stay close to the stock width. I consider these trucks to be pretty wide already.

I found these diagrams for reference.

Dana 60 Full Float http://www.fordification.com/tech/im...llFloating.jpg


Semi Float
http://www.fordification.com/tech/im...i-floating.jpg

So, based on what I'm seeing

erisman33 06-28-2012 06:54 AM

Yes it would be close..... Another idea is to get a 14 bolt out of a suburban which is ff and 63 inch wms to wms.. do new outter and disc brakes and then its strong and simple.

Drawback is clearance but like Wfo concepts will shave the housing to gain clearance.

Many options out there for a 14bolt

NwiTACO 06-28-2012 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erisman33 (Post 5305077)
Drawback is clearance but like Wfo concepts will shave the housing to gain clearance.

Many options out there for a 14bolt

Evan shaved you wont be close to the clearance a Toyota diff has.

OP: Based on what you say your needs/use is, put in some gears and an ARB and be done with it. You wont have any issues.

viperstd 06-28-2012 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NwiTACO (Post 5305655)
Evan shaved you wont be close to the clearance a Toyota diff has.

OP: Based on what you say your needs/use is, put in some gears and an ARB and be done with it. You wont have any issues.

yeah, I've spent the day reading up on it and considering everyone's advice, and I can't see any reason to upgrade to a D60 or 14 bolt.

It seems like a diamond housing, CrMo shafts, and ECGS built 4.56/ARB 3rd looks like a winning combination to me. I will gain 0.75" of pumpkin clearance instead of loosing 2+" which is like running a ~5" bigger tire.

Anyone know if a Hilux uses the same Axle as a Taco? That would make getting replacements parts OCONUS much easier.

NwiTACO 06-28-2012 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viperstd (Post 5306289)
yeah, I've spent the day reading up on it and considering everyone's advice, and I can't see any reason to upgrade to a D60 or 14 bolt.

It seems like a diamond housing, CrMo shafts, and ECGS built 4.56/ARB 3rd looks like a winning combination to me. I will gain 0.75" of pumpkin clearance instead of loosing 2+" which is like running a ~5" bigger tire.

Anyone know if a Hilux uses the same Axle as a Taco? That would make getting replacements parts OCONUS much easier.

Screw the diamond and the shafts. Not necessary.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...5-19110724.jpg

4.56's, ARB, 37's, stock shafts, stock housing


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