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Bilsteins - how do they lift ?

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Old 07-06-2010, 06:39 PM   #1
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Bilsteins - how do they lift ?

OK, I have read as many posts as I can find and searched the Internet to no avail -

Mechanically, how do the Bilsteins 5100's (front) actually raise the truck - I'm just having a "brain fart" and can not see how it works -
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Old 07-06-2010, 07:32 PM   #2
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i think they are longer and have more travel.
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Old 07-06-2010, 07:36 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy0802 View Post
i think they are longer and have more travel.
Incorrect.

They actually lift the truck by raising the spring perch. (the seat that the base of the spring sits on).

The spring compresses the same amount, but it is physically higher on the shock, therefore the truck sits higher.
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Old 07-07-2010, 09:54 AM   #4
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Thank you KPT, I kinda thought that was what was happening -
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Old 07-07-2010, 09:56 AM   #5
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPT View Post
Incorrect.

They actually lift the truck by raising the spring perch. (the seat that the base of the spring sits on).

The spring compresses the same amount, but it is physically higher on the shock, therefore the truck sits higher.
This is kinda right. The spring perch preloads the spring, giving it more rate, thus giving lift. So, The spring is compressed a bit more than stock, depending on the setting of the perch..
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
This is kinda right. The spring perch preloads the spring, giving it more rate, thus giving lift. So, The spring is compressed a bit more than stock, depending on the setting of the perch..
Chris I'm glad you commented on that. I have always had a hard time seeing how simply moving the spring up on the shock actually compresses the spring more, but everyone says it does.

The weight of the truck is the same, and the weight is what compresses the spring, not the spring's position.

It's kind of like saying that if I stand on a spring on the floor, it will compress a certain amount, but if I move that spring on top of a table, the stand on it, it will compress more?

What am I missing?
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:30 AM   #7
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I think the shock's lift is just secondary like just a help to the springs to support more weight.. but its main purpose is absorb shock/dampening but it does allow you to use longer springs w/ more travel compared to stock
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:31 AM   #8
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPT View Post
Chris I'm glad you commented on that. I have always had a hard time seeing how simply moving the spring up on the shock actually compresses the spring more, but everyone says it does.

The weight of the truck is the same, and the weight is what compresses the spring, not the spring's position.

It's kind of like saying that if I stand on a spring on the floor, it will compress a certain amount, but if I move that spring on top of a table, the stand on it, it will compress more?

What am I missing?
The spring is compressed against the top plate. Being as it doesnt move, when you move the spring perch up, you are adding pre load to the spring, thus increasing the spring rate, and giving lift. The more pre load, the more lift. The trade off is, as you add more pre load to the spring, the ride gets more firm.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
The spring is compressed against the top plate. Being as it doesnt move, when you move the spring perch up, you are adding pre load to the spring, thus increasing the spring rate, and giving lift. The more pre load, the more lift. The trade off is, as you add more pre load to the spring, the ride gets more firm.
It is only actually compressed by the top plate if the shock is topped out though right? Otherwise it's the just resting against the top plate, with the spring extending the shock different amounts based on where the perch is.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:37 AM   #10
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPT View Post
It is only actually compressed by the top plate if the shock is topped out though right? Otherwise it's the just resting against the top plate, with the spring extending the shock different amounts based on where the perch is.
Its compressed by the spring perch. The amount of pre load on the spring has no affect on the amount the shock extends.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
Its compressed by the spring perch. The amount of pre load on the spring has no affect on the amount the shock extends.
Alright I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around this....

Springs are governed by Hooke's Law, one form of which is:

x=F/-k

x=how much the spring is deformed (or loaded in this case)
F=Force (the weight of the vehicle in this case)
-k=spring constant, which isn't going to change.

The spring still has the exact same amount of weight on it (the weight of the truck) no matter the position of the perch, so x wouldn't change.

Sorry, I'm just trying to figure out how I'm wrong, and learn something in the process.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:47 AM   #12
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPT View Post
Alright I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around this....

Springs are governed by Hooke's Law, one form of which is:

x=F/-k

x=how much the spring is deformed (or loaded in this case)
F=Force (the weight of the vehicle in this case)
-k=spring constant, which isn't going to change.

The spring still has the exact same amount of weight on it (the weight of the truck) no matter the position of the perch, so x wouldn't change.

Sorry, I'm just trying to figure out how I'm wrong, and learn something.

The spring is captive in the assembly. If you take that assembly, and move the perch up, thus shortening/compressing the spring, and pre loading it, asentially, more weight is placed on the spring. This gives lift. Same with coilovers. You thread the adjuster down, giving preload, increasing the spring rate, and getting lift. Compressing the spring, makes it harder for the weight of the truck to puch it down, so the truck is lifted. Not sure how else to explain this.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
The spring is captive in the assembly. If you take that assembly, and move the perch up, thus shortening/compressing the spring, and pre loading it, asentially, more weight is placed on the spring. This gives lift. Same with coilovers. You thread the adjuster down, giving preload, increasing the spring rate, and getting lift. Compressing the spring, makes it harder for the weight of the truck to puch it down, so the truck is lifted. Not sure how else to explain this.
Ohhh, I get it now. You know what my problem was? For some reason I was thinking that the shock valving was between the top plate and the spring perch (so once you move the spring perch, the shock would just extend out by the same amount you moved the perch), when in fact the shock valving is between the spring perch and the LCA. Thanks for your help.
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:48 AM   #14
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Wouldn't it just be better to buy a longer strut, instead of an adjustable one? It you preload the spring, it's stiffer and ride quality suffers. If I bought a strut 2" longer than stock would it lift it 2+"? Looking to level the front but I don't need adjustability and stock CA's are fine.
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:30 AM   #15
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The struts do not provide any lift, they only control the bounce created by the springs, which are doing the lift.

Now, if you were able to raise the perch of the spring AND get a strut/shock with a longer travel, that may provide a more stock ride as far as the stiffness is concerned, and have that combined with a lift. Makes sense to me, but I'll leave that debate to the experts here.
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:53 AM   #16
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I forgot to add that I would buy the strut and spring assembly. Such as a Rancho 9000 setup.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:18 AM   #17
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isu2014 View Post
Wouldn't it just be better to buy a longer strut, instead of an adjustable one? It you preload the spring, it's stiffer and ride quality suffers. If I bought a strut 2" longer than stock would it lift it 2+"? Looking to level the front but I don't need adjustability and stock CA's are fine.
A longer strut/shock will cause the suspension to over extend, breaking ball joints, or the strut itself.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
A longer strut/shock will cause the suspension to over extend, breaking ball joints, or the strut itself.
So help me get this straight... If I put a longer SPRING on my stock Strut, it would lift the truck and still have the proper travel needed? No need to get longer struts unless you go long travel?
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:30 AM   #19
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When it's time to replace my shocks (which is fast approaching), I've been considering the blisteins. I was thinking of using the shocks the level the front. However, everything you guys are tallking about is a concern to me...I don't want to sacrifice ride quality. If I lift the truck via increased pre-load, the truck will rider stiffer. Is this change really bad? Can you feel road bumps, is it annoying, etc?

Also, my friend warned against lifting it because it will work the ball joints harder. Do you guys have any experience with this? Have you broken or worn out parts?
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:33 AM   #20
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isu2014 View Post
So help me get this straight... If I put a longer SPRING on my stock Strut, it would lift the truck and still have the proper travel needed? No need to get longer struts unless you go long travel?
Correct.
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