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Old 03-18-2013, 03:26 PM   #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Wheelin4Banger View Post
OME is great on road & off.
OME 885s without a spacer will give you 2.5" & with a 1/4" spacer will give you a full 3".
Dakars in rear if you want to maintain rake or 1 1/2" to 2" AAL if you want to level it.
I'll add that if you end up needing UCAs, Light Racing seems to have the least expensive option.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:01 AM   #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwpick76 View Post
Have a 2013 4x4 Tacoma. I want to strengthen the suspension to be able to handle fast off road driving (trails/fields, desert/sand, bumps hops etc...) Any help or suggestions
Any major lift you put in is going to void just about every warranty you have. That means the emperor is going to leave you high and dry when a commonly known fault happens.

If you're happy with 2-3" of lift get the OME kit. Its new springs and shocks all around, they are heavy duty and time tested. You can get the whole kit (everything you need) for $900-1000, and if you have a moderately stocked garage you can do the install yourself in under a day.

Are you really going to pound the snot out of a brand new truck?
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:37 AM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTA LOVER View Post
Any major lift you put in is going to void just about every warranty you have. That means the emperor is going to leave you high and dry when a commonly known fault happens.

If you're happy with 2-3" of lift get the OME kit. Its new springs and shocks all around, they are heavy duty and time tested. You can get the whole kit (everything you need) for $900-1000, and if you have a moderately stocked garage you can do the install yourself in under a day.

Are you really going to pound the snot out of a brand new truck?

2-3" is fine. not really looking to make it stand up more, but I know I will need more clearance and room for suspension to travel.

This is what I saw on toytec:

OME Suspension lift kit
Front coil options: Heavy_886_coils_(200+_lbs_add_front_weight)
Top plate spacers: No_top_plate_spacers
Rear Options: Complete rear OME CS047R springs with U bolts (+ $469.00)
Front Diff drop kit: 4X4
Add Rear shock stone guards (Pair): Yes (+ $26.00)
NEW! Assemble front shocks/coils with new bushings: NO

Do I need front diff drop kit? (what does it do?)
Should I get top plate spacer? (what does it do?)
Do I need to replace UCA? or lower? or both?
Most kits have said get longer rear brake lines, is that true here?
$100 for them to assemble front shocks/coils with new bushings...Is it worth it?


As far as pounding the snot out of a brand new truck... "new" is a relative term. I am only looking to pound the crap out of the suspension ;-


The suspension is just my next project on the truck and I am looking to start buying parts and pieces, or at least saving up for them. Installing them is still down the road... I will put it through moderate paces, moderate speeds. Mainly I want to be able to have some fun in it without worrying about an OEM part imploding because I did some wheeling in it.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:40 AM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwpick76 View Post
2-3" is fine. not really looking to make it stand up more, but I know I will need more clearance and room for suspension to travel.

This is what I saw on toytec:

OME Suspension lift kit
Front coil options: Heavy_886_coils_(200+_lbs_add_front_weight) If you have a plate bumper & winch
Top plate spacers: No_top_plate_spacers
Rear Options: Complete rear OME CS047R springs with U bolts (+ $469.00)
Front Diff drop kit: 4X4
Add Rear shock stone guards (Pair): Yes (+ $26.00)
NEW! Assemble front shocks/coils with new bushings: NO

Do I need front diff drop kit? (what does it do?) No, Not much on 2nd Gens other than make your front diff more vulnerable
Should I get top plate spacer? (what does it do?) Not with 886s 885s will give you around 2.5" & if you want add a 1/4" spacer to add another 1/2"
Do I need to replace UCA? or lower? or both? Most replace UCA to get better alignment, Mine works fine with stock.
Most kits have said get longer rear brake lines, is that true here? I have the Dakars & stock brake lines are long enough for mine.
$100 for them to assemble front shocks/coils with new bushings...Is it worth it? Could be


As far as pounding the snot out of a brand new truck... "new" is a relative term. I am only looking to pound the crap out of the suspension ;-


The suspension is just my next project on the truck and I am looking to start buying parts and pieces, or at least saving up for them. Installing them is still down the road... I will put it through moderate paces, moderate speeds. Mainly I want to be able to have some fun in it without worrying about an OEM part imploding because I did some wheeling in it.
Save up buy the whole lift at once (with extra $ for UCAs) get it aligned & see if you need new UCAs.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:24 AM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwpick76 View Post
2-3" is fine. not really looking to make it stand up more, but I know I will need more clearance and room for suspension to travel.

This is what I saw on toytec:

OME Suspension lift kit
Front coil options: Heavy_886_coils_(200+_lbs_add_front_weight)
Top plate spacers: No_top_plate_spacers
Rear Options: Complete rear OME CS047R springs with U bolts (+ $469.00)
Front Diff drop kit: 4X4
Add Rear shock stone guards (Pair): Yes (+ $26.00)
NEW! Assemble front shocks/coils with new bushings: NO

Do I need front diff drop kit? (what does it do?)
Should I get top plate spacer? (what does it do?)
Do I need to replace UCA? or lower? or both?
Most kits have said get longer rear brake lines, is that true here?
$100 for them to assemble front shocks/coils with new bushings...Is it worth it?


As far as pounding the snot out of a brand new truck... "new" is a relative term. I am only looking to pound the crap out of the suspension ;-


The suspension is just my next project on the truck and I am looking to start buying parts and pieces, or at least saving up for them. Installing them is still down the road... I will put it through moderate paces, moderate speeds. Mainly I want to be able to have some fun in it without worrying about an OEM part imploding because I did some wheeling in it.
What I found with the OME kit on my 2011 is that there is no NEED for UCA replacement or new brake lines. I would certainly recommend getting the steel brake lines upgraded because it is a smart move, and get them 1-2" longer than stock to account for the lift and have plenty of slack to play with. Only going up 2" or so doesn't really mess with the stock geometry, so your alignment should be pretty straight forward.

You can throw in the Total Chaos (or similar) UCA for good measure, but I feel it is overkill at that lift height. If you're going to go higher at a later time than it could be a good investment now.

I installed the diff drop just to ensure that at full extension I wasn't stressing the CV joints on the half shafts. Again, the geometry isn't too far out with a 2" lift, but I opted for safer over sorry approach. I'm running the All-Pro full skid, so I don't have to worry about exposing the diff.

I'm not sure what they're talking about with the new bushings on the front shocks. The OME springs and shocks (up front) just drop right in. It's not like having to compress the spring to get it out of the strut or anything. If you decide to go w/new UCA than you should certainly upgrade the stock bushings on the LCA while you've got the front end torn apart. It took a lot of pounding on my gen 1 to wreck the stock LCA and UCA bushings, but when I did there was hell to pay.

I honestly have no idea what the top plate spacer is. The only spacer I had to install was at the drive shaft bearing because I have the 4 door w/ 6' bed, thus the longer drive shaft.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:29 PM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTA LOVER View Post
What I found with the OME kit on my 2011 is that there is no NEED for UCA replacement or new brake lines. I would certainly recommend getting the steel brake lines upgraded because it is a smart move, and get them 1-2" longer than stock to account for the lift and have plenty of slack to play with. Only going up 2" or so doesn't really mess with the stock geometry, so your alignment should be pretty straight forward.

You can throw in the Total Chaos (or similar) UCA for good measure, but I feel it is overkill at that lift height. If you're going to go higher at a later time than it could be a good investment now.

I installed the diff drop just to ensure that at full extension I wasn't stressing the CV joints on the half shafts. Again, the geometry isn't too far out with a 2" lift, but I opted for safer over sorry approach. I'm running the All-Pro full skid, so I don't have to worry about exposing the diff.

I'm not sure what they're talking about with the new bushings on the front shocks. The OME springs and shocks (up front) just drop right in. It's not like having to compress the spring to get it out of the strut or anything. If you decide to go w/new UCA than you should certainly upgrade the stock bushings on the LCA while you've got the front end torn apart. It took a lot of pounding on my gen 1 to wreck the stock LCA and UCA bushings, but when I did there was hell to pay.

I honestly have no idea what the top plate spacer is. The only spacer I had to install was at the drive shaft bearing because I have the 4 door w/ 6' bed, thus the longer drive shaft.

Can you give me info on the brake lines and LCA bushings; where to buy, what to look for?

I was told that with the full 3" lift I should get UCA that will allow for angle at full extension, and since I am looking to be able to do more fast-paced off-roading get shocks with remote resevoir (ICON/KING/FOX). lot of brands and models for the shocks wasnt sure what to look for on those either. I don't plan on doing full out racing off-road, but if I get it out to desert or an area where I can open it up I wanted to make sure the suspension would take the abuse.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:01 PM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwpick76 View Post
Can you give me info on the brake lines and LCA bushings; where to buy, what to look for?

I was told that with the full 3" lift I should get UCA that will allow for angle at full extension, and since I am looking to be able to do more fast-paced off-roading get shocks with remote resevoir (ICON/KING/FOX). lot of brands and models for the shocks wasnt sure what to look for on those either. I don't plan on doing full out racing off-road, but if I get it out to desert or an area where I can open it up I wanted to make sure the suspension would take the abuse.
The most important thing about LCA bushings and alignment cams appears to be applying a heavy coat of thick grease before they begin to rust. If there's a source for greasable LCA bolts, I'd probably order today.

There are lots of UCA options that allow extended travel. Some are designed to correct alignment issues after a lift, and some use a uni-ball instead of a ball joint. It sounds like you're heading for an extended travel shock, so you'll want a UCA that can take advantage of that travel. One of the less expensive options is the Light Racing UCA, made by SPC. It uses a ball joint with an extended travel range, corrects for alignment issues, and can be found for around $375. FWIW, this is my parts list.

Downsouth Motorsports (DSM) is a popular retailer on TW, and they carry Icon, King, and Fox shocks at competitive pricing; they also have a TW discount. Take a look at their site for some options.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:18 PM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
The most important thing about LCA bushings and alignment cams appears to be applying a heavy coat of thick grease before they begin to rust. If there's a source for greasable LCA bolts, I'd probably order today.

There are lots of UCA options that allow extended travel. Some are designed to correct alignment issues after a lift, and some use a uni-ball instead of a ball joint. It sounds like you're heading for an extended travel shock, so you'll want a UCA that can take advantage of that travel. One of the less expensive options is the Light Racing UCA, made by SPC. It uses a ball joint with an extended travel range, corrects for alignment issues, and can be found for around $375. FWIW, this is my parts list.

Downsouth Motorsports (DSM) is a popular retailer on TW, and they carry Icon, King, and Fox shocks at competitive pricing; they also have a TW discount. Take a look at their site for some options.
awesome, thanks.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:36 AM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
The most important thing about LCA bushings and alignment cams appears to be applying a heavy coat of thick grease before they begin to rust. If there's a source for greasable LCA bolts, I'd probably order today. <--- EVEN IF YOU DO NOT UPGRADE, PULL THE LOWERS APART AND GREASE ALL OF THE ALIGNMENT HARDWEAR WHEN YOU INSTALL THE LIFE BEFORE IT GETS ALIGNED. It'll save you a huge headache down the road.

There are lots of UCA options that allow extended travel. Some are designed to correct alignment issues after a lift, and some use a uni-ball instead of a ball joint. It sounds like you're heading for an extended travel shock, so you'll want a UCA that can take advantage of that travel. One of the less expensive options is the Light Racing UCA, made by SPC. It uses a ball joint with an extended travel range, corrects for alignment issues, and can be found for around $375. FWIW, this is my parts list.

Downsouth Motorsports (DSM) is a popular retailer on TW, and they carry Icon, King, and Fox shocks at competitive pricing; they also have a TW discount. Take a look at their site for some options.
^What he said. I'm a big fan of All-Pro Offroad, so here is a link to the extended brake lines they offer:

https://www.allprooffroad.com/tech-i...brake-upgrades

Here are the All-Pro UCAs:

https://www.allprooffroad.com/05taco...n/05upperaarms

You want a rebuildable setup for the ball joint on the new UCA. After a few years dirt and grime get in there and wear them out.

You can see the polyurethane bushings that come with the kit. You'd want a similar product for the lowers. A bunch of companies make them. Sometimes they get squeeky, so proper lubrication is in order.
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:00 PM   #490
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Do I need a new, replacement lift?

Hi folks -

I bought my truck used a little less than a year ago and am dealing with a motor mount that broke last week. Actually, it's the frame under the motor mount.

Getting set up for the repair and reinforcement of the frame has got me started thinking about the lift the truck came with. It's a 2005 DC Off-Road V6 4WD 6 speed, and I like how the lift looks, and thought it drove fine until the fan started hitting the shroud this week.

I live on a gravel/dirt road that is sometimes pretty rough, and have to travel it 2 to 6 times a day. It's about 3 miles of gorgeous, fairly unimproved road. I do need the clearance the tires and lift give. I've got 285/70/17's.

So this is the current lift kit as per the records I got with the truck. It was installed in January of 2010:

Daystar KT09116BK (front spacers)
Skyjacker Add-A-Leaf RTC515
Skyjacker SP-Shocks H7045.
Monroe Sensa-Trac Struts 71371

So these are some of the questions I have after reading this WHOLE thread:
What about my CV angles? How do I tell if they are okay?
How about the control arm bushings, tie rod ends, and ball joints?
Did this lift need a differential drop kit but not get it?

Have I been beating the crap out of my suspension without knowing it? From reading this thread it seems to me that I very well may have a lift that looks good but that hasn't been doing the truck any favors given where I live, and that I need coilovers with better shocks, maybe upper control arms, and a maybe a brand new leaf pack for the rear plus different shocks in the rear.

I've been looking at the Old Man Emu kits. I've got to pay for the repair and reinforcement of the frame at the motor mounts first, but I wonder what those of you with lifts who live in gorgeous out-of-the-way places like I do think about what I've got on my truck now, and what direction you'd go. I think I'd LIKE a long-travel kit, but that's not going to happen. A long-travel kit costs way too much for me though I think there would be times I'd use it even in my daily life.

I think the current lift is 3 inch, but I'm not sure. Trucks not here right now, but a pic is in my sig.

Looking forward to hearing any of your ideas about the replacement lift I should be saving for. Now I'm off to read the OME thread, all 50 pages of it.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:16 PM   #491
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blackbrit, do you have any idea how many miles/years are on the old lift? What's your budget for a new lift? The more you want to spend, the more options you'll have, but you don't have to spend several thousand dollars for a good 2"-3" lift. Long Travel may be overkill, but a Mid Travel setup may be within your budget and accomplish your goals.

Old Man Emu (ARB) is a popular brand that may work for you. A Bilstein lift is another option. Lots of threads on both, and there are obviously a lot of other options.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:49 PM   #492
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so whats the difference between progressive and normal coils?
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:57 PM   #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
blackbrit, do you have any idea how many miles/years are on the old lift? What's your budget for a new lift? The more you want to spend, the more options you'll have, but you don't have to spend several thousand dollars for a good 2"-3" lift. Long Travel may be overkill, but a Mid Travel setup may be within your budget and accomplish your goals.

Old Man Emu (ARB) is a popular brand that may work for you. A Bilstein lift is another option. Lots of threads on both, and there are obviously a lot of other options.
Hi DoorDing -

it's just a little over 3 years old. It was done in January 2010. My best estimate for miles is 46K. There isn't a mileage note on the sales slip from the shop that did the lift. The closest receipt is for tires the next month, and that receipt says 64K. The current odometer reading is a little over 110K, about 6 or 7K of which I put on myself. I think the previous owner was on paved roads more than I am, but I don't know.

I have a budget of $0 right now, as I don't know what the labor will be for the frame repair, and I'd rather spend no money at all at the moment. Having said that, if I had loads of money I'd love to spend it on the truck, and even more importantly, I'll take care of it if I need to make a change in the lift to avoid further destruction of my truck I have been looking at the mid-travel option, just like you say, to replace what's there.

What is the OME 885 with the Dakar leaves considered to be?
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:06 PM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
blackbrit, do you have any idea how many miles/years are on the old lift? What's your budget for a new lift? The more you want to spend, the more options you'll have, but you don't have to spend several thousand dollars for a good 2"-3" lift. Long Travel may be overkill, but a Mid Travel setup may be within your budget and accomplish your goals.
And thanks for the link. Now I'm reading TWO humongous threads! But really, thanks. That and the OME thread are helping to educate me a lot.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:41 PM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbrit View Post
And thanks for the link. Now I'm reading TWO humongous threads! But really, thanks. That and the OME thread are helping to educate me a lot.
Even if you decide against using OME parts, I think you'll find several people in that thread to help guide you. I'd suggest taking your time and figuring out what you want to do, and the best way to get there. You may find that some of the parts you already have will work fine (or well enough) with some new parts, saving you some money. I don't know anything about your current lift, but you can try using TW's Search to learn more about it.

BTW, make sure your shop is thoroughly inspecting the frame and crossmembers for rust problems. Better to find them now than later.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:50 PM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
BTW, make sure your shop is thoroughly inspecting the frame and crossmembers for rust problems. Better to find them now than later.
I've been worrying about that. It may sound stupid, but how do I actually get a good inspection? Not that I'm not under there plenty myself. My '98 went bye-bye last spring in the Toyota frame rust buyback program. I had this frame inspected before I bought it... and here I am with the 2005 infamous weak frame at motor mount issue.

Sorry for getting off-topic. But it is on my mind.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:56 PM   #497
Pabst knows best
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Originally Posted by banditstpk View Post
so whats the difference between progressive and normal coils?
nevermind found my answer

7. What is the difference in progressive and linear springs?

Linear
Well linear spring theoretically keep the same spring rate regardless of stroke.
If you have a 6kg/mm linear spring, if you compress it 10mm it should only take an additional 6kg to compress another mm. Therefore, if you compress a linear 6kg/mm spring with 60kgs of force, it will compress 10mm.

Linear Spring Characteristics
The benefit of a linear spring is consistency, meaning the weights transferring from side to side should be very smooth and consistent. After getting use to the car dynamics, drivers can anticipate weight transfers and body roll more accurately. While exiting a corner, a linear spring will return the body in a smooth manner because both sides are compressing and rebounding at the same rate, which keeps one mm of expansion to one mm of compression throughout the traction of the springs. This reduces the demand for excessive counter steering, which can result in fish tailing. For winding roads driving, this has great benefit and allows for more confident use of weight transferring because the driver won't experience unpredictable weight shifts.

Progressive
Progressive springs are springs that gradually increase spring rate as the spring compresses. So, if the spring starts out with a 6kg/mm spring rate after 50mm of compression it may then measure 17.75kg/mm.
Using the above example a 6kg/mm linear spring will take 300kg to compress 50mm while it will take 594kg to compress the progressive spring.

Progressive Characteristics
Say you are cornering with these progressive springs, you have compressed your outside spring by 50mm (a little over 2"). While you are exiting the corner the centrifugal channeled inertia (the force that causes body roll during cornering), reduces, allowing the body roll to stabilize. You now have an outside spring that has stored 17.75kg/mm of force. As the centrifugal inertia reduces, it throws the outer side of the chassis up with 17.75 kilograms per/mm of force, roughly 950lbs/ inch of force.

Since suspensions are designed to keep the vehicle level that force throwing the outside of the chassis up will be partially transferred to the opposite side. But the outside spring has not compressed during cornering so it will absorb the transferred energy at 6kg/mm of compression so for the first mm the outside releases, will translate to almost 3mm of compression on the inside. As the outside spring releases the excess energy and the inner springs absorb it, the ratios gets closer to 1:1, it may even change back and forth. This is excessive body roll requiring more attention and finesse to effectively control. While negotiating chicanes it can make steering extremely complex and demanding compared to what linear spring would produce. Please use the chart below to see the differences in the linear and progressive spring characteristics. .
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:02 PM   #498
Well, let's play chess.
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Originally Posted by blackbrit View Post
I've been worrying about that. It may sound stupid, but how do I actually get a good inspection? Not that I'm not under there plenty myself. My '98 went bye-bye last spring in the Toyota frame rust buyback program. I had this frame inspected before I bought it... and here I am with the 2005 infamous weak frame at motor mount issue.

Sorry for getting off-topic. But it is on my mind.
This should brighten your day:

2005 tacoma 2nd gen terminal frame rot rust cancer

An automotive shop probably won't perform any formal Non-destructive Testing, but they can tap and probe the frame to check for weak spots, and maybe poke a borescope into some semi-enclosed areas. If rust is a concern for you, there are several threads on rust preventative measures. I applied Fluid Film to my 2012, but it's too soon for me to report its effectiveness.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:48 PM   #499
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Question

I'm gonna buy some 2" coil spacers to level my truck how do I my coils off to get them on pics would be nice
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:53 AM   #500
Stay Calm, and Fire For Effect
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Originally Posted by jacobblocker View Post
Question

I'm gonna buy some 2" coil spacers to level my truck how do I my coils off to get them on pics would be nice
If you're talking about a Gen 1 or 2 Tacoma you need to pull the struts off the truck and bring them down to a shop so they can safely compress the spring and add in your spacers.

My two cents: I originally used spacers to get lift on my 95 (when I didn't know any better) and regret using them. They compress the spring and stiffen up the front. That's cool if you want to stay on pavement, but it's not so cool off road when you need some more flex. I was much happier with adjustable coil-overs, which also allowed me to perfectly level the truck.
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