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Old 05-17-2011, 10:13 PM   #1
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Swapping Coils?

I have 2.5" SAW's on my 98 tacoma, and i bought them used and they are cranked down to give me about 2.5 - 3" inches of lift. My question is could i swap out the spring for the Eibachs from Toytec that give approx. 3" of lift, for the SAW coils. Basically my question is could i put those coils on and not have to crank the coilovers down for lift? I want to get them rebuilt at the time of the swap as well. Would this setup ride smoother than having the coilovers cranked down? If I'm not being clear enough let me know and ill try to rephrase it.
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Old 05-18-2011, 12:11 PM   #2
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Bump.
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Old 05-18-2011, 05:01 PM   #3
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bump.
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:09 PM   #4
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Sorry for the multiple bumps, but i need to know haha. I called multiple off road shops but to no avail.
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Old 05-19-2011, 10:56 AM   #5
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bump.
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Old 05-19-2011, 11:17 AM   #6
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Typical that people don't reply to real tech questions here.

You need a 3" coil spring (3" inside diameter = I.D. to fit over 2.5 coilovers) Not sure the length's for or spring rates for 1st Gen's. Give 'em a call. I'd suggest just going up 1" and 50lbs. This would let you have less preload, which gives you your lift. Just don't want to have a spring that has a compressed block height that is much higher than your current spring or you could have coil binding. Don't sweat it though, just call 'em and ask for tech support then get some suggestions.

**Just looked it up...your coilover comes with a 13" spring at 650lbs.

Might try this 14" 650lbs spring

If you want to go to 700lbs, King makes one.
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Old 05-19-2011, 11:32 AM   #7
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thank you so much! this is exactly what i was looking for!
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Old 05-19-2011, 11:49 AM   #8
never summer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1998tacoma4x4 View Post
thank you so much! this is exactly what i was looking for!
No worries man, here is the link to SAW.
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Old 05-20-2011, 09:00 AM   #9
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So i got some conflicting info from SAW and from Eibach. SAW told me that for the money it would take it do this, the performance gains would be negligible. Granted i would be doing a spring swap and a rebuild at the same time. Eibach told me that the gains would be awesome and the ride would be great, but the salesperson was real pushy about his products, so I'm not sure if I should trust his judgement. The SAW rep. said that if I went up to a 14" 650lb spring that i would still need to preload the shocks almost the same as i have now with the 13" springs. He said I would need to preload them about 1/4" less than I have right now, so the in the long run the gains would not be worth the invested money in the springs. What are you're thoughts on this one?
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Old 05-20-2011, 05:43 PM   #10
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You can get a longer spring at the same rate as your current spring and crank it down less fo rthe same amount of lift (just beacuse the spring is longer) There would be zero gains/loss on performance (unless of course your old ones are worn out).

You could get the same spring length at a higher rate (heavier)and achieve the lift with less preload since the spring will essentially be firmer. This is a toss up as your SAWs were valved with consideration of the recommended spring rate.

Either way, there's not any gains to be had by a longer spring. What matters is the spring rate and the condition of the spring.

You would be safe going up 1 spring rate with a 1-2" longer coil, but I'm not sure how exactly it will alter your ride quality.

Whatever you do, don't go softer or too long as the coils will bind and smash onto each other.

I recently swapped to the 'new and improved coils' for mine: they're 1" longer, and painted silver, other than that I can't tell a difference (same rate as the original 'old spring'). Although I'm pretty hapy with how they perform now, I'm never satisfied so I'll end up getting the same spring lenght, but 1X higher rate just for kicks.
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Old 05-20-2011, 08:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvdeserted View Post
You can get a longer spring at the same rate as your current spring and crank it down less fo rthe same amount of lift (just beacuse the spring is longer) There would be zero gains/loss on performance (unless of course your old ones are worn out).

You could get the same spring length at a higher rate (heavier)and achieve the lift with less preload since the spring will essentially be firmer. This is a toss up as your SAWs were valved with consideration of the recommended spring rate.

Either way, there's not any gains to be had by a longer spring. What matters is the spring rate and the condition of the spring.

You would be safe going up 1 spring rate with a 1-2" longer coil, but I'm not sure how exactly it will alter your ride quality.

Whatever you do, don't go softer or too long as the coils will bind and smash onto each other.

I recently swapped to the 'new and improved coils' for mine: they're 1" longer, and painted silver, other than that I can't tell a difference (same rate as the original 'old spring'). Although I'm pretty hapy with how they perform now, I'm never satisfied so I'll end up getting the same spring lenght, but 1X higher rate just for kicks.
So even if I got a longer coil and preloaded it less, it would ride the same? I thought that the less you preload the coils the better the ride is?
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Old 05-20-2011, 09:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1998tacoma4x4 View Post
So even if I got a longer coil and preloaded it less, it would ride the same? I thought that the less you preload the coils the better the ride is?
You would have the same result as lessening the preload on your current coil- ride wise. The only difference if you switch to a longer coil, of the same rate, is that you will have less threads 'showing' on the height/preload collar. Even though is the coil is longer you will have to have the same pressure of preload to maintain your current lif height; so although the collar won't be cranked down as much, the ride will be the same.

It's a bit confusing. I actually spent a good hour discussing this very same thing with a local off-road suspension expert. I went to him with the same question about my SAWs: will putting a longer coil on make for a better ride? specifically since I have 2" of 'adjustment' threads doing nothing, I thought that if the spring was the full length of the strut, and the collar not cranked at all to get my 2.5" lift it would somehow be better. I had the same idea as you, as far as getting an 'extended' coil.

My 'new and improved coil' (which I installed before talking to the expert) is 1" longer than the old red ones it they came with. After install, everything is the same, however, I have about 3/4" less threads showing on the C/O. So the longer coil has proven to be just that, longer, nothing more, as it's the same spring rate as the shorter original... and , well, it's a different color.

What I can recommend, from my experience rebuiling/revalving dirtbike shocks (very similar to the SAWs) is that if you have a very specific dislike about your C/Os performance, you can 'valve' it better to suit your needs during the rebuild: ditch some bleed screws, etc. And, if you are specific in what you want: firmer/softer, more dampening, faster rebound, etc. the guys at SAW can send you fairly precise valving specs to adjust how it performs... or if you have any good racing suspension experts in your area, they could help too.

After talking with the expert, I think I might swap to a heavier spring and slow the rebound via valving... but honestly I don't have the time to experiment and rebuild my C/O 10 times getting it perfect, like on a dirtbike, especially since I have to drive the Taco to work every day... Next time I get a chance, I think I'll get the same length spring I have now, at a heigher rate and see how I like it; it will give me the same lift with less collar cranking since it's stiffer (like built in preload, compared to the stock one anyway).
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Old 05-21-2011, 12:30 AM   #13
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Awesome info, thanks a lot man! I'll talk to SAW again about valving the shocks during the rebuild, and see how that goes.
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