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Alignment, Caster, Clearance, and Driving Report with Light Racing UCAs

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Old 05-03-2012, 07:45 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggiesrider View Post
I'm about to install LR UCA's with toytec ULK and dakar leaf packs $$

I want to run 2.5" lift in the front....is any running same setup and if so what are your UCA's set to and what were your final alignment numbers?
As close to 3* of caster with toe and camber around 0

I set mine like most guys on TW....LR UCAs at neutral (SPC logo facing out)

The SPC site has an FAQ with tips to help you with clearance issues if you are running larger tires.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:29 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBb View Post
After my lift, I was running at about 1* and hated it. I'm running 3.2* now; huge improvement and no complaints.
Thanks. That's what I'm going to have it set to.
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:47 AM   #63
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Hey guys, nice write up moose. I need some input. I'm having the exact same rubbing issue with mine. I'm going back to the shop this week to have them re-align. I installed them at the neutral setting, and I'm pretty sure they adjusted them to the 3*.. which Is causing my rubbing. When I go in, is there anything I should say specifically? Or will they know what to do? Thanks.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:17 PM   #64
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Anyone have problems using LR UCAs with long travel coilovers? I'm putting together a Fox package at DSM and I'd like to use a BJ UCA, Sonny mentioned that there may be issues using a BJ with a long travel shock.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:41 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoorDing View Post
Anyone have problems using LR UCAs with long travel coilovers? I'm putting together a Fox package at DSM and I'd like to use a BJ UCA, Sonny mentioned that there may be issues using a BJ with a long travel shock.
You might want to try the midtravel BS thread. I also found something from LR themselves.
Originally Posted by LIGHT RACING LAB
ToledoFJ called us and let us know this thread was flowing. Here are a few deign points on our Upper Control Arms you all might be interested in knowing:
• Our Upper Control Arms were designed work with a wide range of coilover shocks; from the stock Toyota units to long travel aftermarket shocks similar to the Light Racing or Icon units. This includes shocks that allow for a slight increase in droop travel.
• The increased travel was accommodated by using a ball joint with a higher range of travel. The stock Toyota ball joint has a 77 included angle (or 38.5 off centerline). Our design allows for a 90 included angle (or 45 off centerline. A spherical bearing (monoball) with high angularity inserts rarely has more than a 35 included angle. The angle of the ball joint plate is optimized for this increased ball joint travel.
• The sliding off-set ball joint that we use allows for a huge range of alignment adjustment rather than designing an arm with a static off-set and relying on the Lower Control Arm cam bolts for adjustment. This means the camber of our arm can be adjusted to the stock upper control arm geometry or it can be adjusted for proper camber in a 4” lifted vehicle. The caster can also be adjusted from stock numbers up to a 4 increase in caster for better high speed stability.
• Using a standard ball joint (instead of a monoball) and molded rubber inner pivots (instead of urethane) gives better ride quality, better longevity, lower maintenance, and quiet operation.
• We as a company have 30 years experience designing ball joints for aftermarket and OEM use. The design and quality of the ball joints used on these arms is top notch.
• Our arms are coated using E-coating. This is a process where the coating is electro-statically grown on the part. This is used for many OEM suspension components and gives superior corrosion protection to zinc plating, paint, or powdercoating.
I will check this thread a few more times over the next couple of weeks and answer what questions I can. For other questions please call our customer service department at (800)525-6505.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:46 PM   #66
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Check these out also:
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/sus...-non-resi.html

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/gro...-tech-4x4.html
(page 2 on that thread talks about extended travel Icons and LR UCAs)
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:48 PM   #67
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Thanks for your help. I thought I'd read something like that from LR but I've been reading so much I wasn't sure if that was the case.

Sonny just called up LR and was told there shouldn't be a problem using their UCAs with a long travel coilover as I want to do. I'm very impressed with DSM and if I can work it out to buy the UCAs through them, I will.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:32 PM   #68
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:37 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmoose View Post
Summary:
* UCAs improve Caster but reduce clearance at the rear fender.
* You can reduce the amount of space lost by setting the alignment optimally
* Daily driveability is much better after adding UCAs.

So, last October I lifted my 4 cyl std cab Tacoma with OME 885 springs and Dakar Leaf pack. See http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/sus...ines-pics.html. This gave me a full 3" of lift. I did not install any upper control arms. Here are my final post-lift alignment numbers:

Code:
         Left    Right  Factory Range
Camber:   0.5     0.3    0.2-1.3
Caster:  -0.1    -0.2    1.0-2.5
Toe:      0.05    0.05   0.0-0.11
Not optimal obviously, but I had clearance and no rubbing issues at the back and did not need to do a cab-mount chop.

My wife noticed right away that the truck felt "skittish" and didn't like driving it. After six months, including a long road-trip to Moab, I decided I was ready to get some caster back, so I purchased some Light-Racing Upper Control Arms from wheelers.

I installed them last weekend. I didn't bother with an install thread for them because of the most excellent TW UCA install thread here: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/sus...w-install.html and the excellent video produced by SPC, maker of the control arms, here: http://spc-tv.com/install/lt-suv/69-...trol-arms.html

Using the instructions I pre-set the caster at the "+3" position (+2 is "neutral")

Yesterday, took the truck in to get it aligned at my local shop I've been using for years. Here are the alignment numbers from that. Check out the huge 3.7 caster before they started!
Code:
BEFORE:
         Left    Right  Factory Range
Camber:   0.2     0.2    0.2-1.3
Caster:   3.9     3.7    1.0-2.5
Toe:     -1.23   -0.63  0.0-0.11

and AFTER:
         Left    Right  Factory Range
Camber:   0.5     0.4    0.2-1.3
Caster:   2.4     2.4    1.0-2.5
Toe:      0.05    0.07   0.0-0.11
But, there was a problem. The instant I tried to back out of my parking place with a bit of turn, the wheels rubbed the back of the wheelwell. brubrubrubrubrubrub.

I talked to the shop and rang up PRS 2 TiFJ. He gave the following observations and instructions.

* If you increase caster AT THE TOP of the spindle, you decrease clearance, because that moves the spindle hub back.
* If you increase caster AT THE BOTTOM of the spindle, you increase clearance, because that moves the spindle hub forward.
* On the stock truck, caster and camber must be played off against each other, because the combination of eccentric cams on the lower-control-arm affects both caster and camber.
* But the adjustability on the Light-Racings means you can set Camber at the top of the spindle, in addition to setting caster there.
* Toe is adjusted by the tie-rod ends, and is a completely separate adjustment.

So, to maximize clearance:

1. First, Maximize caster using the eccentrics on the lower control arm. Do not worry about camber at this time.
2. Reset the caster cams on the UCAs to the minimum value to bring Caster to an acceptable value. I decided to trade off a little less caster for a little more clearance here, and moved the UCA cams to the "+1" position (One degree LESS than neutral, and two degrees less than I started)
3. Set the camber using the UCA adjustment slide.
4. Finish off toe normally.

So I met with the alignment technician this morning, and stood in the shop while he worked. Pretty much my only contribution to the effort was showing how to turn the caster-adjustment cams on the UCAs. To get maximum "2.5" caster on my truck, the UCAs would have to be set at the neutral "+2" position. I deliberately traded off to get a little more CLEARANCE at the expense of a little less caster and ended up with the following final alignment numbers:

Code:
         Left    Right  Factory Range
Camber:   0.5     0.5    0.2-1.3
Caster:   1.7     2.0    1.0-2.5
Toe:      0.05    0.06   0.0-0.11
After the alignment, there was 2.5" of space between the tire and the rear of the fender well. A little less than I originally had before I installed the UCAs, but I'm no longer rubbing in the parking lot.

I'm now on the fence about getting a cab-mount-chop, because I hate tire rub in all its forms, and I like having the option to run chains on all four wheels.

The bonus to having waited this long to install UCAs is that I'm now qualified to talk "before and after" about driving the truck with and without upper-control-arms.

1: As expected, the truck now tracks better. On my short drive to the shop with the 3.7 degrees of caster, the truck was *very* stable and I kinda liked that. But even at 1.7, it's much more directionally stable, self-corrects easily to the zero position after the tiny variances in the road, and takes a lighter hand on the wheel. Truck no longer feels skittish or twitchy. I'm pleased.

2: The factory UCA ball joint, rather than OME shock length, seems to have been the limiting factor in droop. When I jack up the front end I now raise the whole thing two full inches (at the fender) before the tires finally leave the ground.

The amount of droop IS telling as I go over our various highway bridge joints that are a regular feature of my commute. Before, with the lift and the factory UCAs, the front would drop and the truck would lurch forward, forcing the headrest into the back of my head on some of these joints. Now, I glide easily over these small drops. This is an unexpected bonus, and I'm *very* pleased.

bjmoose gives a hearty "ThumbsUp" to Light Racing upper control arms.
Hay I'm installing these uca this weekend and was wondering if u had a picture of how u got ur arms set to what u said. Like witch direction is the SPC loggo facing I'm having a had figureing out how set them.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:59 AM   #71
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:44 AM   #72
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I thought this would be a good place to pass along an installation note I received from Headstrong Off-Road:

"I just spoke with the sales manager at SPC and according to him you have received their latest and greatest Light Racing UCAs. The minor change made incorporates the use of longer sleeves which means assembly now only requires the use of the 4 large washers rather than 4 large and 4 small. The instructions you have received with your kit will indicate this however by accident the 4 small washers were included. That said you can discard the 4 small washers as they are no longer needed."

If you just received a set of LR UCAs, you may want to check to see if this applies to them.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:00 AM   #73
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Firestone got it right this time...am very pleased. Caster 3.0, camber and toe 0......Ride is perfect. Thanks for all the info on here guys.

One complaint with the LR UCA's that i have is the E coating. 8 months on the truck now and i have a little rust on the passenger side. Northeast weather i guess. Salt and road treating sucks.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:04 AM   #74
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Subd,

Just had icon extended travel suspension installed with 16x8 wheels and 285 tires. Don't mind doing the body mount chop, but want to make sure that I get the the most clearance I can. Bringing my truck back to the shop on Wed for a few odds and ends but this post should help me atleast ask slightly more inteligent questions about the alignment. Thanks to the OP.

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Old 04-26-2013, 02:59 PM   #75
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So how do you know how far to slide the top part in or out? You just set it down off the jacks and tighten it up?
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:11 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeter1148 View Post
So how do you know how far to slide the top part in or out? You just set it down off the jacks and tighten it up?
I assume you are referring to the ball joint and camber. I put a level on mine unloaded, tightened it, put it in the ground, drove it and checked it again. Most guys just pull it all the way out towards the tire and tighten it. Ultimately I trusted the alignment shop to fine tune it.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:06 PM   #77
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Hey all, Ive tried everything I can think of from what Ive read here and I still cant get rid of my tire rub. I just finished my lift Sunday and got my second alignment tonight, still rubbing the tires on the back of the front fenders during full turns in either direction. Why? Yes, Im still running my factory mud flaps and I intend to keep them. I like them and they serve a purpose. I am having a tough time accepting that I HAVE to remove the mud for a 265/75 tire. Oh right, I spoke to a great guy at SPC today and confirmed through him, "more caster means more clearance." I do have less rubbing with more caster, but still rubbing for some reason. Hopefully some of you can identify what I am doing wrong here.



My specs are listed below:



2012 Tacoma TRD Off Road DCSB
ToyTec coil overs adjusted to about 2
Light Racing UCAs set to +2deg additional caster (D setting on the chart for your other LR users)
ICON AAL in rear
Goodyear Duratrac 265/75-16 (they are big for their size, but not that big)
Spidertrax and stock TRD Off Road wheels.

1st alignment (left me with rubbing while turning and bump steer)
-0.2 Camber -0.2
2.7 Caster 2.7
0.01 Toe 0.04

2nd alignment: (I requested more caster to remove bump steering and rubbing)
-0.2 Camber -0.3
3.7 Caster 3.3
0.03 Toe 0.04

The bump steer is better and the truck drives pretty well, but Im still rubbing. Mainly rubbing while turning in reverse, but I have to drive more before I decide if the rubbing in DRIVE is still present. Sowhat next???? My factory caster is maxed out, but I can still adjust star plate on the UCAs for more caster before I go back if need be. Thanks, you all are great.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:07 PM   #78
Questions... Morphology? Longevity? Incept dates?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JpAdct View Post
Hey all, Ive tried everything I can think of from what Ive read here and I still cant get rid of my tire rub. I just finished my lift Sunday and got my second alignment tonight, still rubbing the tires on the back of the front fenders during full turns in either direction. Why? Yes, Im still running my factory mud flaps and I intend to keep them. I like them and they serve a purpose. I am having a tough time accepting that I HAVE to remove the mud for a 265/75 tire. Oh right, I spoke to a great guy at SPC today and confirmed through him, "more caster means more clearance." I do have less rubbing with more caster, but still rubbing for some reason. Hopefully some of you can identify what I am doing wrong here.



My specs are listed below:



2012 Tacoma TRD Off Road DCSB
ToyTec coil overs adjusted to about 2
Light Racing UCAs set to +2deg additional caster (D setting on the chart for your other LR users)
ICON AAL in rear
Goodyear Duratrac 265/75-16 (they are big for their size, but not that big)
Spidertrax and stock TRD Off Road wheels.

1st alignment (left me with rubbing while turning and bump steer)
-0.2 Camber -0.2
2.7 Caster 2.7
0.01 Toe 0.04

2nd alignment: (I requested more caster to remove bump steering and rubbing)
-0.2 Camber -0.3
3.7 Caster 3.3
0.03 Toe 0.04

The bump steer is better and the truck drives pretty well, but Im still rubbing. Mainly rubbing while turning in reverse, but I have to drive more before I decide if the rubbing in DRIVE is still present. Sowhat next???? My factory caster is maxed out, but I can still adjust star plate on the UCAs for more caster before I go back if need be. Thanks, you all are great.
Lose the wheel spacers
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:11 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
Lose the wheel spacers
Nice save OZ, before I could answer "YES stock wheels," it was gone. Ha. OK, but the Duratracs are very close to the spindles (right term on a 4wd?) and I like the off set from the spacers. I will for sure give it a try though. Easy fix if it works. So does that mean after market rims with more back spacing will cause me to rub as well?
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:14 PM   #80
Questions... Morphology? Longevity? Incept dates?
OZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shedOZ-T is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
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Name: Peter North
Joined: Dec 2009, #27584
Location: British Columbia
Gender: Dude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JpAdct View Post
Nice save OZ, before I could answer "YES stock wheels," it was gone. Ha. OK, but the Duratracs are very close to the spindles (right term on a 4wd?) and I like the off set from the spacers. I will for sure give it a try though. Easy fix if it works. So does that mean after market rims with more back spacing will cause me to rub as well?
I run 275/70/17 on stock wheels without wheel spacers and do not contact the spindles or the UCA

and yes , pushing the wheel out can cause more rubbing in the inner fender or cab mount
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