1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Alignment, Caster, Clearance, and Driving Report with Light Racing UCAs

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by bjmoose, May 24, 2011.

  1. May 24, 2011 at 8:47 PM
    #1
    bjmoose

    bjmoose [OP] Bullwinkle J. Moose

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Member:
    #42529
    Messages:
    6,009
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Steve
    San Jose CA
    Vehicle:
    '11 Std Cab 4x4 5sp
    OME suspension, ARB Air Lockers, CBI/Relentless/Pelfrey armor, HAM radio
    Summary:
    * UCAs improve Caster but reduce clearance at the rear fender.
    * You can reduce the amount of space lost by setting the alignment optimally
    * Daily driveability is much better after adding UCAs.

    So, last October I lifted my 4 cyl std cab Tacoma with OME 885 springs and Dakar Leaf pack. See http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/su...talls-full-ome-kit-rear-brake-lines-pics.html. This gave me a full 3" of lift. I did not install any upper control arms. Here are my final post-lift alignment numbers:

    Code:
             Left    Right  Factory Range
    Camber:   0.5     0.3    0.2-1.3
    Caster:  -0.1    -0.2    1.0-2.5
    Toe:      0.05    0.05   0.0-0.11
    
    Not optimal obviously, but I had clearance and no rubbing issues at the back and did not need to do a cab-mount chop.

    My wife noticed right away that the truck felt "skittish" and didn't like driving it. After six months, including a long road-trip to Moab, I decided I was ready to get some caster back, so I purchased some Light-Racing Upper Control Arms from wheelers.

    I installed them last weekend. I didn't bother with an install thread for them because of the most excellent TW UCA install thread here: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/suspension/14507-total-chaos-uca-how-install.html and the excellent video produced by SPC, maker of the control arms, here: http://spc-tv.com/install/lt-suv/69-25470-toyota-tacoma-upper-control-arms.html :cool:

    Using the instructions I pre-set the caster at the "+3" position (+2 is "neutral")

    Yesterday, took the truck in to get it aligned at my local shop I've been using for years. Here are the alignment numbers from that. Check out the huge 3.7 caster before they started!
    Code:
    BEFORE:
             Left    Right  Factory Range
    Camber:   0.2     0.2    0.2-1.3
    Caster:   3.9     3.7    1.0-2.5
    Toe:     -1.23   -0.63  0.0-0.11
    
    and AFTER:
             Left    Right  Factory Range
    Camber:   0.5     0.4    0.2-1.3
    Caster:   2.4     2.4    1.0-2.5
    Toe:      0.05    0.07   0.0-0.11
    
    But, there was a problem. The instant I tried to back out of my parking place with a bit of turn, the wheels rubbed the back of the wheelwell. brubrubrubrubrubrub. :rant:

    I talked to the shop and rang up PRS 2 TiFJ. He gave the following observations and instructions.

    * If you increase caster AT THE TOP of the spindle, you decrease clearance, because that moves the spindle hub back.
    * If you increase caster AT THE BOTTOM of the spindle, you increase clearance, because that moves the spindle hub forward.
    * On the stock truck, caster and camber must be played off against each other, because the combination of eccentric cams on the lower-control-arm affects both caster and camber.
    * But the adjustability on the Light-Racings means you can set Camber at the top of the spindle, in addition to setting caster there.
    * Toe is adjusted by the tie-rod ends, and is a completely separate adjustment.

    So, to maximize clearance:

    1. First, Maximize caster using the eccentrics on the lower control arm. Do not worry about camber at this time.
    2. Reset the caster cams on the UCAs to the minimum value to bring Caster to an acceptable value. I decided to trade off a little less caster for a little more clearance here, and moved the UCA cams to the "+1" position (One degree LESS than neutral, and two degrees less than I started)
    3. Set the camber using the UCA adjustment slide.
    4. Finish off toe normally.

    So I met with the alignment technician this morning, and stood in the shop while he worked. Pretty much my only contribution to the effort was showing how to turn the caster-adjustment cams on the UCAs. To get maximum "2.5" caster on my truck, the UCAs would have to be set at the neutral "+2" position. I deliberately traded off to get a little more CLEARANCE at the expense of a little less caster and ended up with the following final alignment numbers:

    Code:
             Left    Right  Factory Range
    Camber:   0.5     0.5    0.2-1.3
    Caster:   1.7     2.0    1.0-2.5
    Toe:      0.05    0.06   0.0-0.11
    
    After the alignment, there was 2.5" of space between the tire and the rear of the fender well. A little less than I originally had before I installed the UCAs, but I'm no longer rubbing in the parking lot. :bananadance:

    I'm now on the fence about getting a cab-mount-chop, because I hate tire rub in all its forms, and I like having the option to run chains on all four wheels.

    The bonus to having waited this long to install UCAs is that I'm now qualified to talk "before and after" about driving the truck with and without upper-control-arms.

    1: As expected, the truck now tracks better. On my short drive to the shop with the 3.7 degrees of caster, the truck was *very* stable and I kinda liked that. But even at 1.7, it's much more directionally stable, self-corrects easily to the zero position after the tiny variances in the road, and takes a lighter hand on the wheel. Truck no longer feels skittish or twitchy. I'm pleased.

    2: The factory UCA ball joint, rather than OME shock length, seems to have been the limiting factor in droop. When I jack up the front end I now raise the whole thing two full inches (at the fender) before the tires finally leave the ground.

    The amount of droop IS telling as I go over our various highway bridge joints that are a regular feature of my commute. Before, with the lift and the factory UCAs, the front would drop and the truck would lurch forward, forcing the headrest into the back of my head on some of these joints. Now, I glide easily over these small drops. This is an unexpected bonus, and I'm *very* pleased.

    bjmoose gives a hearty "ThumbsUp" to Light Racing upper control arms. :thumbsup:

    Much later EDIT: - you may find this pic helpful in aligning the SPC control arms:
    [​IMG]

    EDIT:
    It's gotten harder to find the SPC install sheet online. I think SPC has taken the link to it off their website, so you can't easily find it via google anymore.

    http://www.spcalignment.com/instructions/25480-INS_WEB.pdf

    Torque for the ball joint camber/caster nut is 150 ft/lbs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
    Mountain, Omg.evox, TRev and 12 others like this.
  2. May 24, 2011 at 8:54 PM
    #2
    PreRunnerSeth

    PreRunnerSeth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Member:
    #21110
    Messages:
    4,456
    Gender:
    Male
    Apex, NC
    Vehicle:
    16 Super White Limited 4x4
    Awesome dude... glad I was able to explain it in a way that made sense. Great write up. I highlited a couple typos for ya. :D
     
    ManBeast likes this.
  3. May 24, 2011 at 8:58 PM
    #3
    bjmoose

    bjmoose [OP] Bullwinkle J. Moose

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Member:
    #42529
    Messages:
    6,009
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Steve
    San Jose CA
    Vehicle:
    '11 Std Cab 4x4 5sp
    OME suspension, ARB Air Lockers, CBI/Relentless/Pelfrey armor, HAM radio
    Camter isn't a word? :D
     
    MadDaddy and subdiver like this.
  4. May 24, 2011 at 9:03 PM
    #4
    PreRunnerSeth

    PreRunnerSeth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Member:
    #21110
    Messages:
    4,456
    Gender:
    Male
    Apex, NC
    Vehicle:
    16 Super White Limited 4x4
    So, the only caveat to this is that as you dial in most your caster at the bottom you will end up with positive camber. You are able to compensate for this at the top with the light racing UCAs by pulling the top in. this moves the ball joint closer to the coil, so be aware that the LRs use a very large boot on the ball joint and you may experience contact between the boot and the coils, especially for people using larger 2.5 diameter shocks. So, I recommend you check at some point that at full droop you are not contacting the coil.
     
  5. Jul 1, 2011 at 3:45 PM
    #5
    Oskie_78

    Oskie_78 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Member:
    #31131
    Messages:
    986
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    1998 4Runner, 2016 4Runner, 2023 Tacoma
    good read!... so when you set the LR UCA to +1* (-1*) you don't have any rubbing at all? I might have to try this.
     
  6. Jul 1, 2011 at 3:56 PM
    #6
    bjmoose

    bjmoose [OP] Bullwinkle J. Moose

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Member:
    #42529
    Messages:
    6,009
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Steve
    San Jose CA
    Vehicle:
    '11 Std Cab 4x4 5sp
    OME suspension, ARB Air Lockers, CBI/Relentless/Pelfrey armor, HAM radio
    I'm unable to detect any rubbing on the street. Have not done any offroading yet where I can check when stuffed.
     
  7. Jul 1, 2011 at 4:03 PM
    #7
    03DBLCABTACO

    03DBLCABTACO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Member:
    #1781
    Messages:
    198
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Dan
    Tomball TX
    Vehicle:
    Cavalry Blue 2019 TRD OFF-ROAD 4X4
    Great post. Will be using this when I install my lr arms and omen with dakars. Thanks.
     
  8. Jul 1, 2011 at 8:00 PM
    #8
    Digiratus

    Digiratus Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Member:
    #34006
    Messages:
    23,000
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Mike
    Roaming the PNW
    Vehicle:
    The RedHead
    2002 XtraCab TRD 4x4 SCv6 AutoTrans With Lots of Mods ADS COs w/Compression Adjusters Camburg Uniball UCAs Whiteline Lower Control Arm Bushings Kartek 7" Limit Straps Plastics Guy Front Bumpstops Custom Alcan Springs +800 lbs +3" ADS 10" Stroke Triple Bypass w/Resi Rear Shocks Custom Rear Shock Relocate All-Pro U-bolt Flip w/Timbren Bumpstops 4.88 Nitro Gears ARB Front Locker ARB Twin Compressor Black 17x8 Konig Countersteer Type X 285/70r17 Falken A/T3w Gunmetal 16x8 SCS Ray10s 255/85r16 Maxxis Bighorns Limited Edition (Relentless) Elite Front Bumper Smittybilt X2O 10K Winch Diode Dynamics SS3 Sport Selective Yellow Fog Lights in the Bumper Diode Dynamics SS3 Pro 4,000 Kelvin SAE Driving Lights with Clear Lenses on the Bumper Morimoto D2S Projectors XB35 Ballasts + 4300K Bulbs Badland Sliders FrankenFab Tire Carrier Swingout bumper w/kitchen BudBuilt Front & Bellypan Skids BAMF Rear Diff Skid Dometic CFX 55im Fridge/Freezer Alpha II Hardshell RTT Badland Custom Bed Rack Denso 210-0461 105 amp alternator Dual Northstar 24F AGM batteries BlueSea 7622 ML-ACR Battery controller Peak DBI Dual Battery Voltage Monitor Magnuson MP62 Supercharger w/2.37" Pulley Haltech Elite 2000 Standalone ECU Denso 650cc Fuel Injectors Doug Thorley Headers Aeromotive Stealth 340 Fuel Pump TransGo A340F Reprogramming Shift Kit Magnaflow Hi-Flow CAT, Magnaflow 18" Muffler w/Vibrant Resonator 13WL Brake Calipers Braided Steel Brake Lines ScanGauge II OBDII Scanner Kenwood TM-71A Dual Band Ham Radio Larson 70CM/2M Antenna Uniden 520xl CB radio 3' Firestik Adjustable tip antenna Pioneer DEH-P9400BH HU Alpine Amps & Type R components (F) and coaxials (R) Wet Okole Seat Covers Weathertech Digital Liners Deck Plate Mod 1" Diff Drop Carrier Bearing Drop
    I love TacomaWorld. :eek: Thank you bjmoose. :p
     
  9. Aug 7, 2011 at 10:19 PM
    #9
    OZ-T

    OZ-T You are going backwards

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Member:
    #27584
    Messages:
    50,429
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Peter North
    British Columbia
    Vehicle:
    Mag Grey 09 Trd Sport DCLB 4x4
    OME 885x , OME shocks and Dakars , Wheelers SuperBumps front and rear , 275/70/17 Hankook ATm , OEM bed mat , Weathertech digifit floor liners , Weathertech in-channel vents , headache rack , Leer 100RCC commercial canopy , TRD bedside decals removed , Devil Horns by Andres , HomerTaco Satoshi
    Great thread as usual Steve
     
  10. Aug 7, 2011 at 10:49 PM
    #10
    Doc.SS

    Doc.SS ︻╦╤─

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Member:
    #23899
    Messages:
    4,389
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Frank
    O'side
    Vehicle:
    T4R SR5
    Thanks for taking the time.
     
  11. Aug 14, 2011 at 1:45 AM
    #11
    DubVtundy

    DubVtundy ERMAHGERD

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Member:
    #38082
    Messages:
    1,435
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Thayer
    Keyser West Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2010 white double cab
    8 inch alcan custom leaf packs, ome 885's powdercoated white, bilstein 5100's all the way around with 12 inch travel on the rear, Light Racing Upper Control Arms, Sway bar removed, 17x9 kmc strike. 35x12.50 nitto Trail Grapplers. Satoshi Grill made by (homertaco), Black Headlight housings,retrofits, Tinted Tailights, color matched grill, Bought a TRD sport hood,elite off road front plate bumper,elite off road sliders, 13% tint on the front windows, 5% on top of the facotry rear windows and back glass, 5% tint stip across the windshield, Lo Pro Truxedo tonneu cover, Herculiner bed liner, Weather Tech Window Visors, Exhaust- Flowmaster Super 44 dumped above rear axle, Maglight Mount on side of drivers seat, Scangauge II, Mossy Oak Camo Seat Covers, Weather Tech Floor mats, Spatter painted A-Pillars, Spatter painted headunit trim and shifter trim, Headunit= Pioneer 4300 double din touch screen, Speakers- Precision Power 3 way component stage, Precision Power 8 i
  12. Aug 26, 2011 at 8:35 PM
    #12
    92LandCruiser

    92LandCruiser Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Member:
    #31761
    Messages:
    8,317
    Gender:
    Male
    Nevada
    Vehicle:
    80 series Land Cruiser
    Cummins, tons, 40s
    Seemed like a good thread to add to.


    Went wheelin last night, fucked up my door... and knocked my LR UCA out of adjustment in camber (along with my alignment). Went from all of the way out to almost all of the way in. I torqued them to spec with a torque wrench, this time I torqued them much more. Also noticed the boots had fallen down and they were pretty dry and had lot's of dirt inside. I will be needing to lube them.

    Not a big deal but... shows you can knock the LRs out of adjustment and keep an eye on the ball joints to see if they have ample grease.
     
  13. Feb 2, 2012 at 12:46 PM
    #13
    JavaJoe1

    JavaJoe1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Member:
    #66739
    Messages:
    59
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Joe
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2012 Access cab Pre-Runner SR5
    Secondary air filter removal, AFE Pro Dry, 5100's all around front set at 2.5, 2" AAL in rear, ImMrYo Mirror Bracket, 265/70-17 Grabber AT2's, XD Addicts, wanting to do: BHLM, Satoshi/T-rex grill
  14. Feb 2, 2012 at 6:38 PM
    #14
    92LandCruiser

    92LandCruiser Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Member:
    #31761
    Messages:
    8,317
    Gender:
    Male
    Nevada
    Vehicle:
    80 series Land Cruiser
    Cummins, tons, 40s
    ball joints and bushings wore out on both sides in under a year. SPC replaced them at no cost to me (not even shipping). I had to install them myself but I had it down the second time, took no time at all. New design looks much better FWIW. I'd buy them again.
     
  15. Feb 2, 2012 at 7:08 PM
    #15
    bjmoose

    bjmoose [OP] Bullwinkle J. Moose

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Member:
    #42529
    Messages:
    6,009
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Steve
    San Jose CA
    Vehicle:
    '11 Std Cab 4x4 5sp
    OME suspension, ARB Air Lockers, CBI/Relentless/Pelfrey armor, HAM radio
    Thx for the update. Have they changed the torque spec on that big ball joint top nut?
     
  16. Feb 2, 2012 at 9:57 PM
    #16
    cnew

    cnew Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Member:
    #53437
    Messages:
    77
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris
    Goodyear AZ
    Vehicle:
    11 DC 4x4 Sport
    Very good info here as usual. I have been planning my lift for about a year now and have found your posts very very useful. Thanks for taking the time and effort to post all of this great info. Almost had the lift last year but found out at tax time instead of getting money back as we do each year we owed over 8 large. Purchased the LR UCAs for cyber Monday and finally saved enough for the OME lift. Now to find a good shop at a decent price for the install, can't wait!! Thanks again.
     
    JTRDSJAX likes this.
  17. Feb 19, 2012 at 9:29 PM
    #17
    jspetrovitsis

    jspetrovitsis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Member:
    #64300
    Messages:
    243
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    James
    NEW HAMPSAHHH
    Vehicle:
    2011 Tacoma TX PRO
    Toytec/Eibach front coils, Bilsteins on all four, 2 '' AAL, Light Racing UCA, K&N CAI, Weathertecs front and back, Wet Okoles, Alpine INA W900BT in dash navigation, LED cab lights
    what are the correct numbers soposed to be on a taco that is lifted 3''
     
  18. Feb 19, 2012 at 9:41 PM
    #18
    Digiratus

    Digiratus Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Member:
    #34006
    Messages:
    23,000
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Mike
    Roaming the PNW
    Vehicle:
    The RedHead
    2002 XtraCab TRD 4x4 SCv6 AutoTrans With Lots of Mods ADS COs w/Compression Adjusters Camburg Uniball UCAs Whiteline Lower Control Arm Bushings Kartek 7" Limit Straps Plastics Guy Front Bumpstops Custom Alcan Springs +800 lbs +3" ADS 10" Stroke Triple Bypass w/Resi Rear Shocks Custom Rear Shock Relocate All-Pro U-bolt Flip w/Timbren Bumpstops 4.88 Nitro Gears ARB Front Locker ARB Twin Compressor Black 17x8 Konig Countersteer Type X 285/70r17 Falken A/T3w Gunmetal 16x8 SCS Ray10s 255/85r16 Maxxis Bighorns Limited Edition (Relentless) Elite Front Bumper Smittybilt X2O 10K Winch Diode Dynamics SS3 Sport Selective Yellow Fog Lights in the Bumper Diode Dynamics SS3 Pro 4,000 Kelvin SAE Driving Lights with Clear Lenses on the Bumper Morimoto D2S Projectors XB35 Ballasts + 4300K Bulbs Badland Sliders FrankenFab Tire Carrier Swingout bumper w/kitchen BudBuilt Front & Bellypan Skids BAMF Rear Diff Skid Dometic CFX 55im Fridge/Freezer Alpha II Hardshell RTT Badland Custom Bed Rack Denso 210-0461 105 amp alternator Dual Northstar 24F AGM batteries BlueSea 7622 ML-ACR Battery controller Peak DBI Dual Battery Voltage Monitor Magnuson MP62 Supercharger w/2.37" Pulley Haltech Elite 2000 Standalone ECU Denso 650cc Fuel Injectors Doug Thorley Headers Aeromotive Stealth 340 Fuel Pump TransGo A340F Reprogramming Shift Kit Magnaflow Hi-Flow CAT, Magnaflow 18" Muffler w/Vibrant Resonator 13WL Brake Calipers Braided Steel Brake Lines ScanGauge II OBDII Scanner Kenwood TM-71A Dual Band Ham Radio Larson 70CM/2M Antenna Uniden 520xl CB radio 3' Firestik Adjustable tip antenna Pioneer DEH-P9400BH HU Alpine Amps & Type R components (F) and coaxials (R) Wet Okole Seat Covers Weathertech Digital Liners Deck Plate Mod 1" Diff Drop Carrier Bearing Drop
    I have read that ideal is 0 degrees for camber. 0 or +.01 or +.02 degrees of toe. And more than 2 degrees of caster.

    This is achievable on an all stock Tacoma with no lift. However, when you lift the truck, especially when you max it out to 3" of lift, it becomes impossible to adjust the caster high enough. One degree of caster might be attainable but not much more.

    Do you have 3" of lift? Have you added aftermarket upper control arms?
     
  19. Feb 20, 2012 at 1:30 AM
    #19
    92LandCruiser

    92LandCruiser Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Member:
    #31761
    Messages:
    8,317
    Gender:
    Male
    Nevada
    Vehicle:
    80 series Land Cruiser
    Cummins, tons, 40s
    IIRC it's 120. Not sure if they've changed it or not.


    Edit: I don't know if it was my memory of if they've changed it but the spec on their PDF from their website says 150 ft-lbs.

    http://www.spcalignment.net/instructions/25470-INS_WEB.pdf

    45 ft-lbs for the castle nut holding the spindle to the ball joint, then whatever more to make the hole for the cotter pin line up.

    They only mention this in the tech tips page but the UCA bushing/frame bolts are 87 ft-lbs and remember only torque when vehicle is sitting on it's own weight at ride height.
     
  20. Feb 20, 2012 at 1:47 AM
    #20
    92LandCruiser

    92LandCruiser Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Member:
    #31761
    Messages:
    8,317
    Gender:
    Male
    Nevada
    Vehicle:
    80 series Land Cruiser
    Cummins, tons, 40s


    Toe ~0* (out of spec toe can cause adverse handling and the scuffing and dragging or pushing of tires across pavement, you want both your tires straight ahead and parallel to each other, lifting should not affect this)

    Camber would depend on your application mostly you want 0* this puts the tire as about as close to 90* to the road as possible. Some go fast guys may want a little negative camber to help with cornering. /-----\

    Caster you want as much as you can squeeze out of these guys IMO, I think about 3* is a good number. This will dictate how your truck handles, too little caster and your truck will feel like it's 'floating' and following grooves and ruts in the road, wandering etc... too much and it makes it more difficult to turn. I'm of the opinion that you'll never seen enough caster on these trucks to make it an issue.

    Since caster and camber are both adjusted via the cams at the LCA and the UCA is fixed there is only so much adjustment possible. When you lift you basically get positive camber and so to bring that camber down you have to take a hit in your caster angles.

    If you were looking at your truck after you lifted it you might notice the positive camber which would look like this from the front. \-----/

    This gives you decreased contact with the road way and wears your tires on the outside unevenly which severely shortens their life.

    So like I said to bring them back down to as close to 0* as possible |-----| you have to take a hit at caster making it lower, this causes your truck to wander and track poorly. I could only get 1* with stock UCAs and 884 coils. With about .5 camber.

    So when you add LR UCAs you get much greater adjustability because now we can add or remove both caster and camber at the UCA and LCA.

    This means we can get ideal alignment numbers if we know how to set up the UCAs.

    The stock specs are as follows: (note that they may not be the most ideal)

    Camber -0.3* 1.2*
    Caster 1.3* 2.8*
    Toe -1/64" 1/32"

    Just to re-iterate the ideal specs IMO are:
    Camber 0*
    Caster 2.5 - 3
    Toe 0

    and they should be easily attainable with these UCAs, just ask to set them to set camber and toe at 0 and then get caster as close to 3 as possible. Should drive great.
     
    dborrer and elytravis like this.

Products Discussed in

To Top