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Medium Trail Suspension Setup Questions

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Old 04-30-2012, 02:54 PM   #1
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Medium Trail Suspension Setup Questions

I have been searching around on TW for answers and I have learned a lot about suspension but I still have questions and I would appreciate any advise. I plan on becoming an active member on TW, this is a fun community.

I just bought my first truck so that I go trail camping on the weekends and see more of the western states. I have a stock 2009 4x4 DCLB with a camper shell and took it out to Mojave road with a group of friends with raised Jeeps. The stock setup did ok, lightly scraped a few times on the steep whoops (mid hills area), and the diff clearance in the sand made me nervous about hitting large mostly buried rocks. I think the DCLB wheel base is a little more than a foot longer than the 4 door jeep wrangler.

My goal is to get a little more ground clearance and I want a nice ride on-road and off-road. I will mostly be using it on easy to medium desert and mountain trails. I am not trying to do the Rubicon trail.

Suspension Plan:
I am not in a hurry so I wanted to save a little $ and participate in a few Group buys. Looking at the current downsouthmotorsports Group Buy for King OEM Performance Shocks and the upcoming TC UAC GB.

05+ Tacoma Front Coilovers (SKU# 25001-119)
05+ Tacoma Rear shocks (SKU# 25001-121)
Total Chaos Upper Control Arm Kit (TC-96504)
All Pro 1.5" AAL
I am estimating this will cost around $2,900 + Tires

I am going to install everything with the help of my brother. Everything is supposed to be bolt on.

I don't know much about wheel backspacing and which tires to buy, I want to avoid cutting up the truck. Would it be possible to use the stock 17" wheels and (33") 285/70/17s (seems to be a popular size) with these Kings in the front and back paired with TC UACs and 1.5" All Pro AAL?

Does anyone think that this setup will cause tire rubbing? I would rather spend the $ on Sliders and diff armor than new wheels. I read in the lift FAQ that the "The 285's is more for aesthetics and looks rather than serious offroading.".
I am more concerned with performance than looks, especially if smaller tires save me money and provide similar performance.

When you buy suspension components separately rather than as a kit, is all of the necessary mounting hardware included?

I have read that the Front Diff Drop is not worth installing and will not do much to reduce the stress on the CV joints. Why do shops recommend the diff drop? Checkout minute 1:45 in this install video Tacoma ICON/Total Chaos Lift.

Let me know if you think that another setup would be more appropriate, or if their are parts that I am forgetting that I need.

Thanks!
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:32 PM   #2
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Kings are great and have a good reputation...personally, they're a pain in the ass to adjust height! Most have to remove it from the vehicle, put a spring compressor on it and adjust! Icons/Fox are much easier and can be done just by jacking up one side, loosening the set screw and adjusting!

Icon's are one of the few valved spot on for these trucks and I can attest to that as I just put some on a week ago! Look into the Stage 2 which has front 2.5" coilovers, aal and rear resi shocks. A full leaf pack is a great idea too if it's in the budget! Call Marco at DSM for a discount but shouldn't be more than $1800 and free shipping. UCA are only needed if you run the ext travel or lift above 3" and have alignment issues.

Stick with a 265 tire to avoid trimming and should be able to keep the wheels at that size. The wider and taller you go, you'll be rubbing the uca's and need different wheels!

Diff drops are useless for 2nd gens!
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:37 PM   #3
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Question Wheels and Tires

I like the Icons but the King group buy is too good to pass up. Plus I like that the kings are a progressive shock which will ride better while getting to the trials.

I am looking into getting 16" wheels now. I don't want to buy a 265 tire and then not be happy about not getting the 1" of additional clearance that the 285s will provide.

from the online tire size calculator

I have been looking around for information and example of trucks with a similar setup. The Icon Stage 2 kit recommends 285/75R16 tires with 16x8 wheels with 5" of backspacing. Since the Kings are similar to the Icons would the same recommendations still apply? Most of the wheels that I like have 4.5” of backspacing. Where do most of the rubbing issues happen? On the inside of the tire or the outside of the tire? I plan on making them fit, but I want to do as little cutting as possible but getting the setup right the first time.

Here is an interesting wheel/tire calculator with offset adjustment that lets you see the effect of config each change:
285/75-16x8ET0
http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp

My truck is magnetic gray and I am looking for flat black wheels. I also like the Nitto Trail Grapplers. Any suggestions?

I like these wheels:

Pro Comp 7032 – 4.5 Backspacing


Konig Countersteer Offroad – 4.5 Backspacing


Pro Comp 52 – 4.25 Backspacing


This is getting expensive. Going to buy the UCA’s later since they are not absolutely necessary.

New Estimate for King Shocks GB, 5 Nitto Trial Grapplers, 5 All Pro 7032 and All pro AAL is $4,100

Planning on modding the spare tire guide mounts and stuffing the spare in there.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:55 PM   #4
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You can go with a tall, narrow tire and avoid rubbing issues. Check out 265/75R16. They'll fit stock wheels at stock height without rubbing. With a lift, you might have to do some plastic trimming and lose the mud flaps but I believe you can go taller with a lift, something like 255/80R16 (don't quote me on that one, there's an entire thread where people debate what fits when it comes to tall/skinny tires).
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buggin View Post
I have been searching around on TW for answers and I have learned a lot about suspension but I still have questions and I would appreciate any advise. I plan on becoming an active member on TW, this is a fun community.

I just bought my first truck so that I go trail camping on the weekends and see more of the western states. I have a stock 2009 4x4 DCLB with a camper shell and took it out to Mojave road with a group of friends with raised Jeeps. The stock setup did ok, lightly scraped a few times on the steep whoops (mid hills area), and the diff clearance in the sand made me nervous about hitting large mostly buried rocks. I think the DCLB wheel base is a little more than a foot longer than the 4 door jeep wrangler.

My goal is to get a little more ground clearance and I want a nice ride on-road and off-road. I will mostly be using it on easy to medium desert and mountain trails. I am not trying to do the Rubicon trail.

Suspension Plan:
I am not in a hurry so I wanted to save a little $ and participate in a few Group buys. Looking at the current downsouthmotorsports Group Buy for King OEM Performance Shocks and the upcoming TC UAC GB.

05+ Tacoma Front Coilovers (SKU# 25001-119)
05+ Tacoma Rear shocks (SKU# 25001-121)
Total Chaos Upper Control Arm Kit (TC-96504)
All Pro 1.5" AAL


OK...

  • The kings are great and I have had zero issues with mine after 40k
  • TC UCA's IMO are overpriced for what they are. I have them and think I wasted my money. Their chrome uniballs rust and pit to crap in less then a year (salt belt regions) and many other companies offer a cheaper beter solution....see DSMS.
  • If you taking the trails at slow speeds I see no need for top of the line rear suspension like Kings, but if you have the cash go for it. I have Bilsteins out back. I know this theory is flawed for racing but for my needs better front suspension then rear makes sense to me. The critical part is insuring proper travel is achieved.
  • I am not a AP fan so I would steer clear of buying anything from them, but thats personal taste. I think companies like Wheelers should get your aal purchase. If memory serves me right they were the first to carry a 3 leaf aal and I would give my money to Dan over Ap any day.
  • IMO for tires the most ground clearance you can get without modifying a major amount of truck is 255/85/16. Who care about looks when your not rubbing your frame, LCA's, fenders, body mount, UCA's, etc.
I am estimating this will cost around $2,900 + Tires

I am going to install everything with the help of my brother. Everything is supposed to be bolt on.

Everything on your list is achievable with standard tools.

I don't know much about wheel backspacing and which tires to buy, I want to avoid cutting up the truck. Would it be possible to use the stock 17" wheels and (33") 285/70/17s (seems to be a popular size) with these Kings in the front and back paired with TC UACs and 1.5" All Pro AAL?

No. They will rub bad.

A lift has nothing to do with your rubbing of parts. Proper tires, Caster, and like you said wheels are the major factors.


Does anyone think that this setup will cause tire rubbing?

Yes, tons if your wheeling.

I would rather spend the $ on Sliders and diff armor than new wheels.

I picked up (10) used steel wheels for $12.50 per wheel that have 5-1/2" BS and I rub so little all I had to remove was my front mud flaps.

see here for what I'm running
http://toyotaoff-road.com/threads/1200-05-11-Toyota-16-quot-x-7-quot-5-spoke-steel-wheel-69459?p=102252&viewfull=1#post102252

I read in the lift FAQ that the "The 285's is more for aesthetics and looks rather than serious offroading.".

sounds about right to me unless you modify your truck a ton and even with that youll still rub if you wheel hard

I am more concerned with performance than looks, especially if smaller tires save me money and provide similar performance.

Finally someone who gets it

When you buy suspension components separately rather than as a kit, is all of the necessary mounting hardware included?

Depends on what you get. DSMS is the best at supplying great customer service and great parts under extended warranty.

I have read that the Front Diff Drop is not worth installing and will not do much to reduce the stress on the CV joints. Why do shops recommend the diff drop? Checkout minute 1:45 in this install video Tacoma ICON/Total Chaos Lift.

Minimal degree changes not worth it IMO. With your set up (same as mine) I have yet to need it, but every truck is different.

Let me know if you think that another setup would be more appropriate, or if their are parts that I am forgetting that I need.

Thanks!
Sounds like your on the same track as I was when I was building mine. In the end the AAL will be shot after about 40k of heavy abuse, but for the money they are great if you don;t have the cash for a new leaf pack. I would suggest looking at new leaf packs so you don't have to do it twice like I am looking to do right now. In the end your not saving money if you need to buy parts twice even if the AAL is a cheap "fix".
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:20 AM   #6
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looking forward to this build. Im going to get similar components, minus the rear leaves and rims. I have an MGM, and will get some black rims.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:14 PM   #7
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265/70R17 Tires

I have the stock sport 17x7.5 wheels and I like the way they look, might paint them flat black. It seems the best tire for me will be the 265/70R17 which is slightly larger and has the same width.

from the online tire size calculator

The Nitto Terra Grapplers seem really popular, I heard that the General Grabber AT2’s last longer and perform well in the mud and snow.

I need to drop the spare tire and see what size the wheel and tire is.

By not buying new wheels I can put those funds toward a full leaf pack. I checked out wheelers off-road site, if I am going to go the full leaf pack route I want to get a pack that is capable of carrying more weight in a DCLB truck with a camper shell. I plan on having a full load of camping gear in the back while off-roading. I don’t want to have to replace an AAL after a year or 2. Now I am looking at the All Pro Expedition leaf pack. Here is a
Pic posted by allmotorrex AP standard with 2.5 Kings

New Build Config:
King OEM performance front and rear shocks
All Pro Expedition Leaf Pack
5 Nitto Terra OR General Grabber AT2 265/70R17 E Load
Paint Stock Wheels Black
Estimated at $3,500

I will start a build thread when the parts come in.

Thanks for the input, I will have a better build because of it.

I will be looking into trail armor any recommendations?
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:38 PM   #8
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Is it best to stick with one shock MFG all around or would it be ok to run King 2.5 coilovers up front and Fox 2.5 in the back?

I want the All pro 3" Expo leaf pack instead of the AAL and reading through the King OEM Performance group buy I think that it would be a better idea to get the Kings up front and the proper length Fox shocks in the back.

They are both progressive shocks. I just don't know if they would fight each other due to different valving.

Looking for a smooth ride across washboard and soak up the random dip and bump.

Planned setup
4x4 DCLB
King OC up front
Fox 2.5 + AP Expo in the back
265/70R17 General Grabbers AT2 and stock wheels
camper shell full of gear.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:24 PM   #9
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Tire Finder /w 4 comparisons + Available Models

Found this tire finder / selection tool that allows you to compare 4 models against your current tire and provides available model suggestions.

http://www.1010tires.com/tiresizecalculator.asp

Helped me understand how the tire size numbers relate to actual tire size and select a tire.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buggin View Post
Found this tire finder / selection tool that allows you to compare 4 models against your current tire and provides available model suggestions.

http://www.1010tires.com/tiresizecalculator.asp

Helped me understand how the tire size numbers relate to actual tire size and select a tire.
Ex: 245/75R16

245 = Treadwidth in mm
75 = Aspect Ratio, in this case 245x.75 = 183.75 = sidewall height in mm
16 = rim diameter

The 4 tires you're trying to compare don't show up when you copy the link so I can't see what you're trying to compare but that should at least show you what the numbers mean and how they interact.
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