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some thoughts on suspension lifts.

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Old 06-21-2012, 11:28 PM   #1
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some thoughts on suspension lifts.

Just a few thoughts I'm having regarding the different lifts that are popular, and not so popular among tacomaworld

Spacer lifts get a lot of bad talk, I understand why..

this explains it better than I can..


then there is an in coil spacer...


Now arguably the most popular lift for these trucks is bilstein 5100's, and often eibach coils.

So the 5100 is a longer shock, therefore there shouldn't be any damage at full droop, I'm not sure if it compensates for the loss in up travel, but I don't think it does.

basically without the eibach coils, when set at 2.5'' the bilstein shocks is doing the exact same thing as an in coil spacer, regardless of whether it's at the top of the coil (spacer) or the bottom (5100's) it's just compressing the coil to lift the truck, so other than the shocks being longer and a bigger/ stronger shock, is there any advantage? seems to me that both decrease ride quality and have the same side effects. (I have experienced 5100's with stock coils @ 2.5, the ride quality sucked.)

I'm not sure how the eibach comes into play as compared to spacers, but to me it seems like the only issue with an above coil spacer is the possible damage at full droop because the stock shocks are too short. this can be fixed with the longer 5100 shocks.

Would we not be better off getting 5100's set at 0 with stock coils and using an above coil spacer to get the desired lift? that way we get the longer, bigger stronger shock that can handle the full droop, don't have to compress the coils whatsoever, and get to retain stock ride quality, or better with the 5100's. seems like we're just using a stiff coil and compressing it to get the desired lift, but unless you are running a steel front bumper, are the stiffer coils needed?

I'm no expert, these are just some things I have been thinking and wanted to get some thoughts on. sorry it's so long, I hope to hear some good feedback here!
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:36 PM   #2
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Makes sense to me, but I'm no expert either. As far as I can see the logic is all there though. Just the mechanics I'm not sure about.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:52 PM   #3
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Yea thats all I'm really shooting for, It would be nice for the folks who already have an above coil spacer, to not have to buy eibach coils, saves another $170
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:59 PM   #4
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here's my quick drawing of the bilstein 5100 shock to compare to an in coil spacer.

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Old 06-22-2012, 12:08 AM   #6
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right, but that would also be fixed with the 5100 shocks don't you think?
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:18 AM   #7
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hmm, he knows a few things about these trucks, let's trust him..

So I guess the better ride comes from a bigger shock body and better valving, so really any higher performing shock matched with an above coil spacer would work?


oh shoot you bumbed your thread, now I gotta go read!
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:26 AM   #8
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makes sense, but we don't know if the stock shocks are digressive or progressive? with my trd sport they are also bilstein shocks, I wonder if they will know?
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:36 AM   #9
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right but that's not just a spacer lift, anytime you lift a truck, you lose dow travel, the only way to avoid that is long travel suspension.

I might give it a go tomorrow Brock.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:37 AM   #10
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5100's are not longer by much, unless they made one 2 inches longer on the chrome shaft.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3bassman View Post
Exactly! To clarify I have the topplate spacer so my ride is still great, not stiffened like the spacer you have pictured. Slow bumps is where my truck begins to struggle. The only way you can gain travel is by new longer coilovers and ucas correct? Long coilovers wouldn't give you more travel?
I'd imagine new uca's would be needed.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:53 AM   #12
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Yes. I don't know this for sure, but some guys are getting new uca's even for 2.5'' of lift, I don't think they could handle lift AND extended travel.

with a spacer, or 5100's, you are lifting the truck, and losing down travel.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:08 AM   #13
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Brock, I was just looking at your other thread, bilstein claims the 5100's are longer by approx. 1/2'' - 3/4'', if they are, is it really that big of a deal? I believe we have 4'' of up travel and 4'' of down travel from stock, so to be 1/2'' longer is next to nothing... what do you think?
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3bassman View Post
I think the biggest question is what are you getting for the extra cost of the billies that the spacers don't have. Ride comfort? And that all a matter if opinion.
right, and with an above coil spacer, ride quality is as stock, the 5100 may be an advantage if it is digressive and if stock is progressive or linear, and due to a larger body, but not that significant.

it also depends on the truck, my trd sport has bilstein shocks already, I'd assume they are built very similar to 5100's.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:29 AM   #15
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Well, to have an intelligent discussion you have to start with some basics... and that Tacoma HQ stuff you are referencing is not correct and thus you are starting with bad premise. Over coil spacer damage on down travel? Thats fucking retarded. Explain it. Up travel? Sure.

Preload spacer causing damage or removing uptravel? Uh... how? Unless you compress the coils till they bind... which Tacoma springs wont. So again... retarded. Minimal change in ride stiffness? Preloading factory springs... especially TRD OR springs which are progressive have a large impact on ride comfort.

5100 has no loss of uptravel... because like I said its not possible.

Yes 5100 is a glorified spacer lift with a new shock.

No 5100 and over coil spacer wont help due to longer shock length because this damage on droop thing is retarded. If it longer compressed it will make the damage on up travel more likely.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevL View Post
Well, to have an intelligent discussion you have to start with some basics... and that Tacoma HQ stuff you are referencing is not correct and thus you are starting with bad premise. Over coil spacer damage on down travel? Thats fucking retarded. Explain it. Up travel? Sure.

Preload spacer causing damage or removing uptravel? Uh... how? Unless you compress the coils till they bind... which Tacoma springs wont. So again... retarded. Minimal change in ride stiffness? Preloading factory springs... especially TRD OR springs which are progressive have a large impact on ride comfort.

5100 has no loss of uptravel... because like I said its not possible.
the reason why there is no loss of up travel is because you say so?

the reason there is potential damage at full droop with an above coil spacer is because it is trying to force the shock further than it is built to go.

you need to relax and bring some evidence, we're not battling here, just throwing out ideas.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:55 AM   #17
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Whatever dude revel in your ignorance. I was not criticising you. I was just saying the website you referenced gave bad info. But you seem stuck to it after being told the reality. There is more room in the shock for down travel than needed with an over coil spacer... no room for up travel. But all I have is facts not some pretty picture on a website so physics and geometry must be wrong. If you put a 4" spacer in there the arms would be at full droop... 8" up 0" down. But the shock is fully compressed. 8" of extension and no room to collapse. But the shock is trying to extend further that spec? WTF? Its FULLY COLLAPSED. NO DOWN TRAVEL HAS BEEN USED. Just open your mind and think a little.

And why no loss of uptravel with 5100? Because coils dont bind before the bump hits.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:59 AM   #18
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huh? I didn't see a single fact? or do you mean this.. "5100 has no loss of uptravel... because like I said its not possible". that's not a fact. I didn't ever say there wasn't enough room for travel with an above coil spacer, in fact I have one on the way for my 2012.
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:05 AM   #19
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Finally, the answer you seek is longer springs and nonprogressive coils.
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rab89 View Post
huh? I didn't see a single fact? or do you mean this.. "5100 has no loss of uptravel... because like I said its not possible". that's not a fact. I didn't ever say there wasn't enough room for travel with an above coil spacer, in fact I have one on the way for my 2012.
Yes... it is a fact. 5100 has no loss of up travel is a goddamned fact. When you hit the bump that is all the uptravel you can have. It can do that. Case closed.


Quote:
he reason there is potential damage at full droop with an above coil spacer is because it is trying to force the shock further than it is built to go.
You said there was not enough room for travel right there. What do you mean you did not say there was not enough room for travel? And saying there is not enough room for downtravel is an outright opposition of the reality... there is excess room for downtravel and not enough room for uptravel.
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