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Old 05-14-2013, 12:29 PM   #81
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Now get some bump stops on there!
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:31 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slodgetto View Post


Now get some bump stops on there!
I will but after flexing it nothing is bottoming out so the only reason for bump stops is to minimize the springs going into negative arch. If you know anything about the OME springs you'll know that they are essentially flat at ride height. That means they go into negetive arch almost immediately so I'm not too concerned.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:40 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Box Rocket View Post
I will but after flexing it nothing is bottoming out so the only reason for bump stops is to minimize the springs going into negative arch. If you know anything about the OME springs you'll know that they are essentially flat at ride height. That means they go into negetive arch almost immediately so I'm not too concerned.
I see. That was pretty much the same story with my All-pro Expedition packs. They had a positive arch at ride height, but bumpstops were almost useless since it took a loooot of weight to get them to flex them even close to bottoming out the 10"shocks. Still..... I ran bumpstops at the correct height for piece of mind.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:32 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slodgetto View Post
I see. That was pretty much the same story with my All-pro Expedition packs. They had a positive arch at ride height, but bumpstops were almost useless since it took a loooot of weight to get them to flex them even close to bottoming out the 10"shocks. Still..... I ran bumpstops at the correct height for piece of mind.
Same here.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:26 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slodgetto View Post
I see. That was pretty much the same story with my All-pro Expedition packs. They had a positive arch at ride height, but bumpstops were almost useless since it took a loooot of weight to get them to flex them even close to bottoming out the 10"shocks. Still..... I ran bumpstops at the correct height for piece of mind.
It's not that the Dakars take a lot of weight to flex. They just start out flat and then go into negative arch whenever you flex.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:45 PM   #86
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Here's some flex pics. The back tire was still on the ground but was up against the wall and started climbing the wall so I stopped. Could have got farther and flexed a bit more but I was in a hurry.

Here's the new rear stuff. Before the relocation plates the tire was chewing into the front of the fenderwell. Now nothings touches.


just about dropping the whole tire out




and in case you didn't believe me about the negative arch...... Also you can see the amount of shock left and the room left for a bump. Looks like a 4" bumpstop will be perfect.


opposite side.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:53 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Box Rocket View Post

That's a lot of negative arch! I have some negative arch at full stuff but not too bad. I am still running the factory inverted shackles though.

You can kind of see it in this pic. The front of the leaf pack is arched a lot more, but I couldn't get a could pic showing that.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:55 PM   #88
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Pretty typical of the Dakars on the 1st gens actually. Speaking to ARB its how they are intended to work. :dunno: You can see that it matches the arc of the overload. Look at the droop side and you'll see what I mean. That's about the range they expect.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:59 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Box Rocket View Post
Pretty typical of the Dakars on the 1st gens actually. Speaking to ARB its how they are intended to work. :dunno: You can see that it matches the arc of the overload. Look at the droop side and you'll see what I mean. That's about the range they expect.
Interesting... Kind of a weird design since negative arch wears the pack faster... Was it designed as a wear item to be replaced after so many years?
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:18 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Box Rocket View Post
Here's some flex pics. The back tire was still on the ground but was up against the wall and started climbing the wall so I stopped. Could have got farther and flexed a bit more but I was in a hurry.

Here's the new rear stuff. Before the relocation plates the tire was chewing into the front of the fenderwell. Now nothings touches.


just about dropping the whole tire out




and in case you didn't believe me about the negative arch...... Also you can see the amount of shock left and the room left for a bump. Looks like a 4" bumpstop will be perfect.


opposite side.


ever consider different shackle length or design?

that can't be good regardless of the metallurgy
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Old 05-14-2013, 05:51 PM   #92
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Quote:
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ever consider different shackle length or design?

that can't be good regardless of the metallurgy
It was a little alarming at first but like I said, after talking to ARB about it I'm not concerned. The described the design of the Dakars as a spring designed around the roads of the Australian outback with lots of washboard and rutted tracks. It was important to have a spring that could soak up all the rapid cycles of the suspension and it travelled those roads at moderate speeds. It's no secret that spring with a lot of arch in them are generally a stiffer ride as it takes more force to deflect the spring unless its a very light spring rate. ARB chose to use a spring that was very neutral (flat) because a flat spring can cycle more quickly from positive to negative arch, giving a better ride over rough washboarded tracks. So from the start its been part of the design.

However rock crawling probably puts the spring into extreme negative arch more frequently. It probably increases the rate of wear a bit but its not bad. I figure that by the time I need to replace these I'll be wanting to change the truck anyway so no big deal.
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:00 PM   #93
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I'm all about floppy springs and mine invert slightly at extreme stuffing when my frame hits my bump stops but something seems off geometrically... Looked like your axle could go much farther up making them much worse. Seems like it almost invites axle wrap.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:30 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpskie View Post
Got it. When you get a chance to flex it out, post up some pictures. I like the angles and the clean install. With my 12" 7100s in the stock locations, I'm worried about binding, just like you. So, I figure, if you're safe, I might be too, after I get my orbit eyes.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:55 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXX View Post
I'm all about floppy springs and mine invert slightly at extreme stuffing when my frame hits my bump stops but something seems off geometrically... Looked like your axle could go much farther up making them much worse. Seems like it almost invites axle wrap.
Whatever. Don't lose sleep over it. The truck works fine. Has for years now.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:26 AM   #96
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Sweet. Doesn't look like there's any binding. Thanks for the data point.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:35 AM   #97
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Quote:
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Looked like your axle could go much farther up making them much worse. Seems like it almost invites axle wrap.
Forgot to mention this. They won't invert any farther than that because of the overload leaf(s). Just like with the stock springs there is a heavy overload leaf that limits the negative arch. The fact that Toyota has the overload leaf arched in reverse of the rest of the pack tells me they know the springs will flex to that point. I'm sure OME is no different.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:14 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Box Rocket View Post
Whatever. Don't lose sleep over it. The truck works fine. Has for years now.
I'm sure it does. Just calling it as I see it and I'm not trying to bust your stones. My buddy had issues with his trail rig and after a couple nights of trial and error we found that a custom boomerang style shackle plate worked the best. While I am far from a mechanic or engineer I did stay at a Days Inn last night

Quote:
Originally Posted by Box Rocket View Post
Forgot to mention this. They won't invert any farther than that because of the overload leaf(s). Just like with the stock springs there is a heavy overload leaf that limits the negative arch. The fact that Toyota has the overload leaf arched in reverse of the rest of the pack tells me they know the springs will flex to that point. I'm sure OME is no different.
Gotcha... I know your fine with it and not loosing sleep, but to bring this up for others who read it I would imagine it is a bad thing you can't get maximum up travel out of those leafs? or would your tires rip off your fenders if you stuffed them anymore?

Totally different truck and suspension, but my 05+ TSB leaf pack with overload removed and progressive 3 leaf AAL lays flat to being barely semi neg arch when it's sitting on the bump stops (static load) making it impossible for me to prematurely blow any leaf pack out regardless of brand.

Id throw in some pics but I'm at work.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:18 AM   #99
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Quote:
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I'm sure it does. Just calling it as I see it and I'm not trying to bust your stones. My buddy had issues with his trail rig and after a couple nights of trial and error we found that a custom boomerang style shackle plate worked the best. While I am far from a mechanic or engineer I did stay at a Days Inn last night



Gotcha... I know your fine with it and not loosing sleep, but to bring this up for others who read it I would imagine it is a bad thing you can't get maximum up travel out of those leafs? or would your tires rip off your fenders if you stuffed them anymore?

Totally different truck and suspension, but my 05+ TSB leaf pack with overload removed and progressive 3 leaf AAL lays flat to being barely semi neg arch when it's sitting on the bump stops (static load) making it impossible for me to prematurely blow any leaf pack out regardless of brand.

Id throw in some pics but I'm at work.


My springs won't compress any more than what you see because the overload won't let them. That is full compression. It looks like there is more room to go because I've removed the bumpstops. With bumpstops in place it will help to limit it to that same spot.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:04 AM   #100
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So after a full test in Moab last week, the shock relocation worked out extremely well. No bottoming out and I'm getting 3-4" more droop than I was before with the same shocks.

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