Mike "Wuzzy121". Rest in peace, brother

Go Back   Tacoma World Forums > Tacoma Garage > Suspension

Notices

Help me understand why a spacer lift is bad (front) and 5100's are good.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-11-2013, 11:14 AM   #21
Independant Thinker
Lumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
Lumpskie's Avatar
Joined: Apr 2013, #102450
Location: Colorado
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,767
Lumpskie's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevL View Post
You are not changing the bottom shock mount location, just preloading springs from the bottom.
Well... you're changing the relative location of the lower perch, on the body of the shock. This changes the distance between the upper and lower SHOCK mounts, resulting in a change in ride height. Essentially you are moving the shock body down while leaving the spring's length the same.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 04:20 PM   #22
Senior Member
DevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shed
Joined: Feb 2010, #31952
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,911
DevL's Tacoma Gallery
Negative. Spring will be slightly shorter once preloaded. Mounts stay the same up top, just the arms rotate down. It works just like an adjustable coilover, just using top of sprung spacers or adjustable height lower spring perch instead of the threaded collar.

Upper and lower mount points are the same. Nothing changes mechanically till you get coil bind on compression, just more preload. Spring exerts x force at full extension of shock and x per inch till it matches vehicle weight, which determines ride height. For progressive springs this is very bad for ride quality. If you preload too much and close off coils you can make a linear coil be have progressive rate and also harm ride quality. All linear springs increase rate to a small degree. If we are using closed ended coils there are no other differences
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 04:45 PM   #24
Independant Thinker
Lumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
Lumpskie's Avatar
Joined: Apr 2013, #102450
Location: Colorado
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,767
Lumpskie's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevL View Post
Negative. Spring will be slightly shorter once preloaded. Mounts stay the same up top, just the arms rotate down. It works just like an adjustable coilover, just using top of sprung spacers or adjustable height lower spring perch instead of the threaded collar.

Upper and lower mount points are the same. Nothing changes mechanically till you get coil bind on compression, just more preload. Spring exerts x force at full extension of shock and x per inch till it matches vehicle weight, which determines ride height. For progressive springs this is very bad for ride quality. If you preload too much and close off coils you can make a linear coil be have progressive rate and also harm ride quality. All linear springs increase rate to a small degree. If we are using closed ended coils there are no other differences
You are right. Springs are simply pounds per inch. And you are also right that you are simply pushing your UCAs/LCAs downward when you change the location. But when you do that, you don't change the upper shock mount. This lengthens the shock at your level ride height.

That's what I was trying to say in my previous posts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpskie View Post
^I don't think this is right. As you change the bottom perch location on the shock body, while leaving the top mount location the same, you are changing the length of the shock. The difference is that you typically get a longer shock when you go with a 5100.
You are lengthening your shock as you increase the ride height of your truck. That's point. When you get a 5100 that's not a big deal because it's typically a longer shock. If you throw a spacer in without getting a longer shock, you can hit the stops of the shock like what was being described earlier. Maybe we're in violent agreement?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 06:40 PM   #25
Senior Member
DevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shed
Joined: Feb 2010, #31952
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,911
DevL's Tacoma Gallery
No we are not. There are two types of spacers. The preload spacer has no effect on bottoming out early. It sits between the spring and upper assembly. Then you have spacer over upper assembly and under coilover mount on frame. This does not preload anything. This lengthens the open and closed length of shock and simply spaces the coilover assembly down.

The preload function of a Bilstein 5100 to gain lift via preload does not need a longer shock travel. I know some of their literature makes it sound like that and for some other truck it may matter but not for ours. Top mount and preload spacers are totally different and not related in function.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 07:39 PM   #26
Independant Thinker
Lumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shedLumpskie is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
Lumpskie's Avatar
Joined: Apr 2013, #102450
Location: Colorado
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,767
Lumpskie's Tacoma Gallery
I've had a spacer on my rig. It retained my stock upper mount location and fit between that and the yltop hat. This top spacer lengthened my shock to gain lift. I've also used 5100s that did essentially the same thing from the bottom. Bottom line. If you get lift while retaining the stock top mount it lengthens the shock.

Edit: It looks like the spacer setup your referring to is on top of the top hat, inside the bucket. You're right, that setup doesn't lengthen the shock. Sorry for the confusion and waste of time.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 08:09 PM   #27
Senior Member
Ronn is a splendid one to beholdRonn is a splendid one to beholdRonn is a splendid one to beholdRonn is a splendid one to beholdRonn is a splendid one to beholdRonn is a splendid one to behold
Name: Ron
Joined: Oct 2010, #44253
Location: Northern Ontario
Gender: Male
Posts: 193
Ronn's Tacoma Gallery
So there really is no difference between preloading from the bottom(5100) and preloading from the top (in coil spacer), assuming the shocks are the same.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 08:42 PM   #28
Senior Member
DevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shed
Joined: Feb 2010, #31952
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,911
DevL's Tacoma Gallery
Correct it just changes spring tension. Top spacer just lowers the assembly mount point if you want to think of it that way, no change in spring tension.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 08:52 PM   #29
Bullwinkle J. Moose
bjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
bjmoose's Avatar
Name: Steve
Joined: Aug 2010, #42529
Location: San Jose CA
Gender: Guy
Posts: 4,944
bjmoose's Tacoma Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Traveler View Post
TRD shocks have a certain length of travel, designed to move up and down within those means and either bottoming out, or hitting the bumpstop at either extremes. But when you add inches from the coil bucket to the LCA mount without adding inches of up travel, you risk breaking your shock each time you go full compression. The shock will bottom out long before the bump stop hits the LCA.
Yes. But this can still happen with a 5100 shock at the 2.5" perch position.

The only way to prevent that is run 5100 at 0" with a longer spring then when the longer spring bottoms out - the bump stop still comes in to play.

Or simply extend your bumpstops. Some TW'ers claim to have done that with inexpensive washers. It's pretty common to run bump-stop-extensions in the jeep world. Not sure why it's so uncommon on Tacomas.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 08:58 PM   #30
Bullwinkle J. Moose
bjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shedbjmoose is one of the sharper tools in the shed
 
bjmoose's Avatar
Name: Steve
Joined: Aug 2010, #42529
Location: San Jose CA
Gender: Guy
Posts: 4,944
bjmoose's Tacoma Gallery
Guys, let's reframe the discussion. It's simple really:

IF you're bottoming out your springs hard or often, either because of off-roading, or because you're using your truck to haul heavy loads...

THEN you should be using a longer spring with a higher spring rate to prevent that. You'll be more comfortable, and everything mechanical, including the strut coilover assembly itself, will last longer.

Everything else just obfuscates this simple point.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How bad is a spacer front lift? kingston73 1st Gen. Tacomas 53 10-22-2012 01:11 PM
Bilstein 5100 + spacer = bad idea? texastacobueno Suspension 21 03-16-2010 09:23 PM
Professional Opinion Needed: Spacer with 5100's! Good or Bad? Does it really matter? w8n4mud Suspension 15 11-06-2009 12:20 PM
Front 5100 with Revtek 3" spacer lift? Jedidiah Suspension 8 08-16-2009 01:48 AM
front lift 5100 adj. and 3/4" spacer robert benner Suspension 9 01-12-2009 09:11 PM


Copyright © 2014 Tacoma Forum. Tacoma World is not owned by, or affiliated with Toyota Motor Corporation.