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complete noob to alignment and some info on 5100s that were just installed

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:27 PM   #1
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complete noob to alignment and some info on 5100s that were just installed

I put 5100s on this weekend and despite tightening the alignment after loosening it to get the 5100s on to their original markings prior to lift I was left with a severe "V" to my front wheels...

I set the billies at 1.75 but am sitting at 2" lift right now as the truck has 600 miles on it and the spings and shocks are settling

so I took it in this morning to firestone got the lifetime alignment for $170

I asked them if the could do it to 0/0/2.4 the guy said they would look at it and the specs and try to get it close

i know the #s are not what I asked so are they close or should I just drive it for the week and let things settle out or should I take it back in soone as the front tires are still slightly "V"ed

I am attaching the spec sheet here...

edit: just went back in...got the alignment re-done but they made the caster even more out of spec...what the heck is going on here?

he told me they were able to adjust the toe...but when they do that it is going to affect the caster...with the 2nd alignment the caster went even more negative...how is that possible?

I am attaching the 2nd alignment #s as well can someone with knowledge on this please get back to me on what to tell these guys to get it done properly because this is ridiculous...I have the option of going to another firestone nearby I have 6 within 10 miles of me so would 1 of 6 at least be able to do this correctly?
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complete noob to alignment and some info on 5100s that were just installed-tacoma-3rd-alignment-after-lift.jpg  
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File Type: pdf Tacoma initial alignment after lift.pdf (236.0 KB, 65 views)
File Type: pdf Tacoma 2nd alignment after lift.pdf (240.4 KB, 39 views)
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:30 PM   #2
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Wow... was the tech blind, deaf and dumb or what?? That's not even with spec for stock height, let alone what you specifically asked them for. Take it back and make them do it right this time.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetTaco4Me View Post

I asked them if the could do it to 0/0/2.4 the guy said they would look at it and the specs and try to get it close
I'm new to all this so could you please explain what 0/0/2.4 is and why those numbers?
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwanamukubwa View Post
I'm new to all this so could you please explain what 0/0/2.4 is and why those numbers?
0 camber, 0 toe and 2.4 caster
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugga View Post
0 camber, 0 toe and 2.4 caster
Factory/Firestone 2012 Spec Range(from OPs printout):
Camber -0.1, 1.4
Toe 0.03, 0.13
Caster 1.2, 2.7
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman614 View Post
Factory/Firestone 2012 Spec Range(from OPs printout):
Camber -0.1, 1.4
Toe 0.03, 0.13
Caster 1.2, 2.7
sorry sandman...what does the info you are noting mean? that there spec range is not even right?

is the 0/0/2.4 what I should be asking for?

thanks everyone I am going to take it back in about an hour...
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:25 PM   #8
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You asked for the right thing. Toe and camber were both OK... but the caster needs to be a minimum of 1.3 positive to have decent highway drivability.
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetTaco4Me View Post
sorry sandman...what does the info you are noting mean? that there spec range is not even right?

is the 0/0/2.4 what I should be asking for?

thanks everyone I am going to take it back in about an hour...
0/0/2.4 is within the ranges I posted so it's fine. Anything in the range will be ok.
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:58 PM   #10
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After the second attempt I would go to the other store. Share your experience with them and hopefully they'll get it right. If they do get it right file a complaint against the first store.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:11 PM   #11
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OK I will take it to a different one tomorrow...
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman614 View Post
Factory/Firestone 2012 Spec Range(from OPs printout):
Camber -0.1, 1.4
Toe 0.03, 0.13
Caster 1.2, 2.7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman614 View Post
0/0/2.4 is within the ranges I posted so it's fine. Anything in the range will be ok.
I wouldn't just accept anything with that range. Toe should be 0 or damn close to it, same with camber. Caster needs to be at least 1.5, should be over 2.0. It would be acceptable, as a last resort, to sacrifice some camber to get more caster adjustment but the tech should talk to the customer about that before doing it. Just me $0.02 anyway...
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:25 PM   #13
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Is there any reason why they should not be able to get the numbers right? I only have 1.75 lift on there.

Also should both sides be able to match exactly? Do they align independently? Or together?

Pugga you seem to know your stuff...why have they not been able to get it right with 2 chances? Any thoughts?
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:30 PM   #15
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Truck is only 3 weeks old...could they be seized already
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:34 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by StreetTaco4Me View Post
Truck is only 3 weeks old...could they be seized already
My bad , didn't see the year of your truck

Your alignment tech is a tard then
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetTaco4Me View Post
Is there any reason why they should not be able to get the numbers right? I only have 1.75 lift on there.

Also should both sides be able to match exactly? Do they align independently? Or together?

Pugga you seem to know your stuff...why have they not been able to get it right with 2 chances? Any thoughts?
It's likely just laziness. Most shops just set the toe and if the rest is 'in spec' they don't mess with it. They should be able to get the side to side numbers pretty close, they won't be exact down to the hundredth of a degree but they should get close. Different numbers side to side can make the truck 'pull' depending on how large the difference is. Toe and camber affect tire wear so if they're not correct, they can eat up your tires. Caster influences drivability. A higher caster number will make it more stable at speed, a low caster number can make the truck wander at speed.

FWIW, I have about the same amount of lift as you and I wasn't able to get to 2.4 degrees. I got 0 toe, 0 camber and the techs were only able to get me to around 2 degrees of caster. The techs worked on it for almost 2 hours. I gave the instruction to make sure toe and camber were 0, they were non-negotiable, then max out the caster adjustment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ-T View Post
My bad , didn't see the year of your truck

Your alignment tech is a tard then
Here's your short answer
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:53 PM   #18
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:12 PM   #19
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Awesome thanks everyone (especially pugga) I will insist on the closest to 0 for toe and camber and ask them to max the caster based on those 2 specs and hope to get close to 2.4...at least if they could get it to the low on spec I would be hopeful but seems it's not even close...

with regard to these numbers so long as my toe and camber are good...as I am understanding this the caster is more of a feel thing?

So if my caster numbers do not meet spec for some reason but it drives fine is that what really matters or is there risk to the components of the suspension is the caster does not meet spec as well?
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugga View Post
I wouldn't just accept anything with that range. Toe should be 0 or damn close to it, same with camber. Caster needs to be at least 1.5, should be over 2.0. It would be acceptable, as a last resort, to sacrifice some camber to get more caster adjustment but the tech should talk to the customer about that before doing it. Just me $0.02 anyway...
Lol yea. In this case they could at least get it close to the low side..
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