Any 6" lifts with don't require cutting crossmember

[allrsdup]

Originally Posted by GEARAHOLIC

I am new and have been trying to search...so dont flame me... I have been running the 6" pro comp stage one kit and running 33 inch tires. I just upgraded to the stage 2 kit that uses a 2.75 inch coilover and I also upgraded to MX6-R rear shocks...should I consider getting a total chaos UCA....do I need one?...will it help me? would having an after market UCA allow me to max out the coilover? Thanks for any and all advice

they will help if u want to crank the coilovers up. if u do however do not go over 2" as then u are going to wreck your cv joints and rack and pinion. cranking them up a lot also gives u a much shittier ride.

[b168]

Originally Posted by allrsdup

let me help make this clear for u. all 6" lifts are drop bracket sytems and come with new crossmembers. if u have a 4x4 not 4x2 then u have to cut the front crossmember so install the lift so that the front differential and axels can be lowered. this keeps the factory geometry in tact and cv joints at factory angles.

the triming and cutting u refer to to fit 35's is seperate issue it is trimming in the wheel wells so the 35's dont rub when flexed. this is avoidable by running 33's

i notice some people are nervouse about cutting the factory front crossmember. let me asure u that the new crossmember that is installed is much stronger then the factory one. the factory one is much thinner material then the new one that is bolted in with the kit.

3 inch kits are not a better way to go. i know i am going to get flamed here but whatever. when u install a 3" kit. u are just extending your shockes in some form or another by spacer new coilover whatever there are many options. what this does is take away negative travel of your suspension and its ability to extend. suspension needs to travel up and down. not just sompress. some people install a 1" spacer to lower the diff. that is just one problem. your rack and pinion is not acounted for as well as upper ball jkoints and controle arm angles.

hope this info isa help to u.

Very much true

[MDBigRed]

Originally Posted by Dark Knight

SilverSeven and I have debated the following. what if you got the RCD 4.5" DB lift and then used the Pro Comp 6" lift mx coilovers. going this direction could have positive gains, you would have 6" of lift and gain about the same ground clearance as having a set of 5100's set at 1.75" of lift because of the smaller drop brackets but longer shocks to do some extra lifting.

Do you know if the 6" procomp coilovers would work with my 4" RCD lift?? I was thinking about using spacers but they would make the ride really stiff like my previous lift. I am stuck with my DB lift, but i'd like to see what i could do to improve my front ground clearance under the diff.

[ktmrider]

hey are you 4x4 or prerunner because if you are 2wd then you can get a coilover/3inch lift and spindles and you could go to 6 inches not having to cut anything, and on the back you can do aal or blocks (aal reccomonded)

[MDBigRed]

Originally Posted by ktmrider

hey are you 4x4 or prerunner because if you are 2wd then you can get a coilover/3inch lift and spindles and you could go to 6 inches not having to cut anything, and on the back you can do aal or blocks (aal reccomonded)

4x4 and i already have the 4" RCD installed. I really love the lift, just the db does rob some ground clearance

[randombob]

OK I'm going to jump in here and a) pose some questions, and b) see if I can't start a debate on the merits of 6" vs 3" from a slightly different angle.

I was almost set to get the 3" varieties not long ago, swayed a lot by people here saying "you gain more ground clearance with a 3", drop bracket lowers your clearance, 6" is just for looks…" but I'm not convinced anymore that it's really true. To you 3" lift owners, I posit it this way:

Can you crawl over a log that's ¾ or more the height of your tire? can you even APPROACH a log that size? I read someone's rationale for the 6" being "better" off-road and it made a lot of sense to me, and now I'm almost back at square one trying to figure out which is "actually" better for off-road purposes.

Because let's be honest, you don't crawl over a log long-ways, right? so does it MATTER how much ground clearance you have BETWEEN the front tires? Because they *SHOULD* be hitting the obstacle at more or less the same time, which means any ground clearance gains between the front tires is moot anyway, since it's all above the obstacle at more-or-less the same time. No, what's more important is the ground clearance between the front and rear tires, and entry/exit angles, which a 6" lift gives you much better of all of those.

And let's throw another wrench in the 3" gears here: Let's assume that either lift you're going to maintain a maximum 33" tire size. 3" lift people say "you gain more ground clearance!" without mentioning it's *only* between the front tires, possibly the least-important place to have it, and neglect to realize that the differential in the rear — that will be following the track of the front wherever it goes — is still the same exact distance off the ground, 3" or 6", right? So using that lift/ground clearance logic, you don't gain ANY ground clearance over a 6" lift it would seem in actuality then, right? I mean, you're gaining this clearance on only HALF the truck, but you can't off-road only that half, so any obstacles you encounter with the front you're going to have to lift the solid axle over too, which means, you'll have to take them in a line in such that the 3" between the front tires becomes useless, the only true USEFUL ground clearance gains are, again, entry/exit angles, & additional clearance from front to rear axle.

What I mean is, if you're going to flaunt this magical increased ground clearance (BETWEEN the front tires) as being superior, in what circumstance? I mean, what, are you going to clear the log long-ways? nope. Because your axle didn't magically gain any ground clearance at all, so you're STILL not going anywhere a 6" lift wouldn't, because even with an additional 3" of clearance between the front tires, you're having to follow it in line with the same, straight, flat, solid axle in the rear that is the same height off the ground.

It may look like I'm "flaming," but I promise I'm not. I'm just posing questions, and explaining my rationale for this line of thought & why I'm back at square one. I'm shopping right now too, I'm not sold either way quite yet for various reasons, so if you have knowledge that trumps me, please share — kindly! :-)

[MDBigRed]

Originally Posted by randombob

OK I'm going to jump in here and a) pose some questions, and b) see if I can't start a debate on the merits of 6" vs 3" from a slightly different angle.

I was almost set to get the 3" varieties not long ago, swayed a lot by people here saying "you gain more ground clearance with a 3", drop bracket lowers your clearance, 6" is just for looks…" but I'm not convinced anymore that it's really true. To you 3" lift owners, I posit it this way:

Can you crawl over a log that's ¾ or more the height of your tire? can you even APPROACH a log that size? I read someone's rationale for the 6" being "better" off-road and it made a lot of sense to me, and now I'm almost back at square one trying to figure out which is "actually" better for off-road purposes.

Because let's be honest, you don't crawl over a log long-ways, right? so does it MATTER how much ground clearance you have BETWEEN the front tires? Because they *SHOULD* be hitting the obstacle at more or less the same time, which means any ground clearance gains between the front tires is moot anyway, since it's all above the obstacle at more-or-less the same time. No, what's more important is the ground clearance between the front and rear tires, and entry/exit angles, which a 6" lift gives you much better of all of those.

And let's throw another wrench in the 3" gears here: Let's assume that either lift you're going to maintain a maximum 33" tire size. 3" lift people say "you gain more ground clearance!" without mentioning it's *only* between the front tires, possibly the least-important place to have it, and neglect to realize that the differential in the rear — that will be following the track of the front wherever it goes — is still the same exact distance off the ground, 3" or 6", right? So using that lift/ground clearance logic, you don't gain ANY ground clearance over a 6" lift it would seem in actuality then, right? I mean, you're gaining this clearance on only HALF the truck, but you can't off-road only that half, so any obstacles you encounter with the front you're going to have to lift the solid axle over too, which means, you'll have to take them in a line in such that the 3" between the front tires becomes useless, the only true USEFUL ground clearance gains are, again, entry/exit angles, & additional clearance from front to rear axle.

What I mean is, if you're going to flaunt this magical increased ground clearance (BETWEEN the front tires) as being superior, in what circumstance? I mean, what, are you going to clear the log long-ways? nope. Because your axle didn't magically gain any ground clearance at all, so you're STILL not going anywhere a 6" lift wouldn't, because even with an additional 3" of clearance between the front tires, you're having to follow it in line with the same, straight, flat, solid axle in the rear that is the same height off the ground.

It may look like I'm "flaming," but I promise I'm not. I'm just posing questions, and explaining my rationale for this line of thought & why I'm back at square one. I'm shopping right now too, I'm not sold either way quite yet for various reasons, so if you have knowledge that trumps me, please share — kindly! :-)

Understand that for you maybe a log is what you'll be going over. many people use their trucks in rocky areas such as myself, i can tell you from experience that a drop bracket in the front will get hung up on rocks more often than a coilover lift. With a coilover lift you can get great skids where as on my lift you are very limited in options

[randombob]

Originally Posted by MDBigRed

Understand that for you maybe a log is what you'll be going over. many people use their trucks in rocky areas such as myself, i can tell you from experience that a drop bracket in the front will get hung up on rocks more often than a coilover lift. With a coilover lift you can get great skids where as on my lift you are very limited in options

Even in rocky terrain though (I see all kinds of terrain up here), I'm still trying to figure out WHEN a 3" lift would be better. I can understand that anything low-hanging does have the chance of hanging up on rocks/logs/underwater logs/terrain, etc, but your solid axle is still the lowe-hanging fruit if you're trying to crawl things long-ways. What I don't understand is, since you're still the same height off of the ground in the rear, and the rear goes everywhere the front goes, how does 3" of additional clearance ONLY in the front really end up being a better lift? So your front doesn't hang on the rocks, your rear still does, so you're still stuck on the same obstacle, you just made it an additional 6 feet before it happened. Right now with what I "know" or think I "know" and understand, it sounds like the 3" lift crowd is advocating taking bad lines on obstacles & then just shrugging off any damage to their rear diff, since that's the only way 3" of clearance between just the front tires would be useful as I currently understand the problem.

I said log because it's high & long and helps visualize my point, but you can sub any obstacle that's tall for it, it would seem that the result is the same: with 3", you can't even approach it, you can't clear it between the 'axles' so you'd 'highside' it, and you can't exit without leaving the rear of your truck behind on it. Be it a rock, log, pile of dead bodies, whatever.

6" of lift, front skid (All Pro, etc), weld up the exhaust cross-over out of the way, a few well-placed skids underneath… seems like that would be the "I can go anywhere you can go better" ticket, logically. And hell, you should be equipping the 3" with most the same stuff anyhow.

If YOU have the 4.5" DB lift right now, it seems that you're perfectly placed to have the best of both worlds: add a coilover to it and lift it 2", you've got additional clearance between the front tires if it makes you feel better, AND all the ground clearance throughout & entry/exit angles of the big boys.

[oakleyTRD]

Originally Posted by randombob

6" of lift, front skid (All Pro, etc), weld up the exhaust cross-over out of the way, a few well-placed skids underneath… seems like that would be the "I can go anywhere you can go better" ticket, logically. And hell, you should be equipping the 3" with most the same stuff anyhow.

The only front skid that will fit on a 6" DB lift is the Procomp skid , that means that unless your making something custom your not going to have a skid on the transmission because the AP and BB trans skids tie into the front skid

Each kit has its advantages and disadvantages but for the cost of a 6" stage 1 consisting of 6" spacers and 5" blocks you could have a really nice mid travel set up (ET Coilovers UCAs and possibly a leaf pack if you budget correctly) On top of the cost of a 6" kit its going to need to installed by a professional.

IMO its a lot of money for a shitty spacer lift. theres a few people that wheel them but you gain no serious advantages running a 6" lift over a 3" and the components arent nearly as nice

you need to remember that your lowest points are still going to be the same height off the ground (crossmember and Diff). It makes no logical sense IMHO

[randombob]

Originally Posted by oakleyTRD

you need to remember that your lowest points are still going to be the same height off the ground (crossmember and Diff). It makes no logical sense IMHO

This is where the money is, for me: you're absolutely right of course, but I'm not sure it makes the case for 3" being better still: a 3" lift still has the same low-hanging rear diff, so essentially the same "ground clearance" if you're going to measure from the lowest point. BUT, you give up an additional 3" of clearance for the body/frame and lose a lot in the way of entry/exit angles as well. You also lose downward flex out of your front susp.

How do you guys advocate getting over obstacles? do you do it sideways? because if so then YES, the suspension lift would be king, but ONLY if you change over the rear to IRS too and equip it the same. Otherwise, as you said, the diff's STILL the lowest hanging part and will still get just as hung on rocks & other obstacles.

OR, you could do this alternative: Equip the truck with a 6" lift, and approach your obstacles proper. This way, you make excellent use of the added entry/exit angles, and you have superior mid-truck ground clearance once you get your front tires over the obstacles — 100% more lift & clearance than a 3" — and then it doesn't even matter that the rear diff or front diff is the same height on either lift, because you're using the added clearance "correctly," in that the diff is always placed to go OVER the obstacle, with both tires at no more than a tire's length separated.

This is how I'm envisioning the argument. I'm not sold either way. I want you guys to convince me. Really. Convince me that I can have a BETTER lift for off-roading, at almost a ¼ the cost. I'd be very happy if that ended up being true. it's just that so far, I'm not sure it's so. I'm having trouble envisioning how having 3" less of clearance at the front, out back, and through the middle is a good thing.

[NoWayOut]

Originally Posted by randombob

If YOU have the 4.5" DB lift right now, it seems that you're perfectly placed to have the best of both worlds: add a coilover to it and lift it 2", you've got additional clearance between the front tires if it makes you feel better, AND all the ground clearance throughout & entry/exit angles of the big boys.

This sounds best to me but not sure if it's possible

4.5 drop bracket lift with Icon coilovers set at 2 inchs of lift?

Gives you the geometry you need from the DB and added diff clearance from the coliovers. Only problem is $$$$. But if you have either one to begin with it wont be such a big hit.

[chris4x4]

Originally Posted by ktmrider

hey are you 4x4 or prerunner because if you are 2wd then you can get a coilover/3inch lift and spindles and you could go to 6 inches not having to cut anything, and on the back you can do aal or blocks (aal reccomonded)

A 6" lift on a Prerunner still requires no cutting of anything. The only reason cutting is required is to lower the front diff. No diff = no cutting.

[chris4x4]

The only ground clearance gained from a 6" lift is the ability to run 35" tall tires.. So, a 3" lift running 33" tires is only going to have 1" less lift than a 6" lift running 35's. And of corse, the body will be higher.....

[chris4x4]

Originally Posted by oakleyTRD

On top of the cost of a 6" kit its going to need to installed by a professional.

Install is a simple bolt on....They dont "need" to be installed by Profesionals.

[oakleyTRD]

Originally Posted by chris4x4

The only ground clearance gained from a 6" lift is the ability to run 35" tall tires.. So, a 3" lift running 33" tires is only going to have 1" less lift than a 6" lift running 35's. And of corse, the body will be higher.....

exactly!

[oakleyTRD]

Originally Posted by chris4x4

Install is a simple bolt on....They dont "need" to be installed by Profesionals.

i wouldnt advise doing this extensive of an install on your own, is it possible, yes. do the risks outweigh the benefits, probably not.

on a 4x4 your dropping the Diff a full 3", adding trailing arms, cutting the cross member out, removing and re installing the LCAs. there is way to much that could go wrong to trust a weekend wrencher with the install IMHO.

[oakleyTRD]

Personally, Ill take my 3" kit with top notch components over a 6" spacer anyday.

[chris4x4]

Originally Posted by oakleyTRD

i wouldnt advise doing this extensive of an install on your own, is it possible, yes. do the risks outweigh the benefits, probably not.

on a 4x4 your dropping the Diff a full 3", adding trailing arms, cutting the cross member out, removing and re installing the LCAs. there is way to much that could go wrong to trust a weekend wrencher with the install IMHO.

Well...If you cant take off your own shocks, then I can see having someone do it for ya. No science to the cutting of the cross member, and the rest is an easy R&R. If somone is halfway decent with a wrench, and has a day to spare, there is really nothing to the install.

[oakleyTRD]

Originally Posted by chris4x4

Well...If you cant take off your own shocks, then I can see having someone do it for ya. No science to the cutting of the cross member, and the rest is an easy R&R. If somone is halfway decent with a wrench, and has a day to spare, there is really nothing to the install.

have you installed one yourself?

[chris4x4]

Originally Posted by oakleyTRD

have you installed one yourself?

Not 1, but many....On different vehicles. Have you??