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Why no Hill Start Assist on manual trannys?

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Old 03-13-2011, 11:27 PM   #1
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Why no Hill Start Assist on manual trannys?

Anybody know why Toyota never developed a hill start assist feature for the 6-speed manual transmission?

I know it's on the autos, but that seems kind of pointless to me as I've never known rollback with an auto to be a problem. Seems it would be easy enough to develop and you could turn it on and off with a button on the dash, and would make a huge difference with hill starts in MT Tacomas as the rear is so lightweight and prone to breaking loose on steep takeoffs. Others have it ... like the MT Wranglers. Why not manual FJs and Tacomas? Or (as the 4Runner had already done) is Toyota just determined to make everything auto? (A dealer told me that's exactly what they've heard Toyota is doing).
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:45 PM   #3
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Put a couple jersey barriers in the bed.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:05 AM   #4
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ferrari tried it, it sucked. You have a working parking brake in the manual shift. Autos don't. (they push on push off like others right?) Use your hand brake. Same thing.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by island808 View Post
ferrari tried it, it sucked. You have a working parking brake in the manual shift. Autos don't. (they push on push off like others right?) Use your hand brake. Same thing.
This or use your right foot for brake and gas while starting to move (I forget the name or it).

And yes 808 you are right about the autos.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:16 AM   #6
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heel toe. brake/gas with both the right foot.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eccracer104 View Post
heel toe. brake/gas with both the right foot.
Yes, that is what I was talking about.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:21 AM   #8
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pfff heel toe. Hand brake is right there for a reason. Its always been there in toyotas and used to be in nissans cause its awesome. Similar in rovers.

Unless of course you need all 4 wheels to stay stopped. I've seen that. Forget to lock in your hubs, then can't get out to do it because you need all 4 wheels stopped just to stay in one place.. can't go forward because too slick.

You really have to practice the ol heel toe. If I'm on the street, I just do a quick gas then slip the clutch fast.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by island808 View Post
pfff heel toe. Hand brake is right there for a reason. Its always been there in toyotas and used to be in nissans cause its awesome. Similar in rovers.

Unless of course you need all 4 wheels to stay stopped. I've seen that. Forget to lock in your hubs, then can't get out to do it because you need all 4 wheels stopped just to stay in one place.. can't go forward because too slick.

You really have to practice the ol heel toe. If I'm on the street, I just do a quick gas then slip the clutch fast.
Then do what tow truck drivers do: put a stick in between the seat and brake pedal.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by island808 View Post
Use your hand brake. Same thing.
I did the hand brake thing for years. It was all fine and good. But a good electronic hill start assist just seems like an evolutionary step for manuals. Like I said, I've heard great things about it in the Wranglers ... with the exception that turning it off is a PITA with a sequence like turning off our seatbelt chimes. Making it a push button feature right next to the clutch start cancel would be great. Certainly if they can come up with TRAC/AutoLSD/A-TRAC which all make use of wheel sensors and ABS, they could easily create push button HSA for manuals.
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:46 AM   #11
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That's a fact. I don't want the truck to do it for me.

My sister has a '10 Wrangler with the hill start assist, and it is a PITA to deal with. You actually have to wait for the brakes to disengage to get going. I've stalled it several times not thinking about waiting.
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:29 AM   #12
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That sounds like a major add on. Ergo, not going to find it on toyota's value line. Might see it on an FJ though. Just no real demand for it on an IFS pickup truck.

Well wait now, I can think of a couple of legitimate uses, boat ramps, trailering almost anywhere. But again, the tacoma is not a full on "truck" like a 250/2500 or even a 1500 model, which still isn't much of a "truck". Its more like a home tool kit. Not "shop grade". There's just no call for it. Do they offer it in ford/chevy HD models, yup.
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainEarth View Post
Anybody know why Toyota never developed a hill start assist feature for the 6-speed manual transmission?

I know it's on the autos, but that seems kind of pointless to me as I've never known rollback with an auto to be a problem. Seems it would be easy enough to develop and you could turn it on and off with a button on the dash, and would make a huge difference with hill starts in MT Tacomas as the rear is so lightweight and prone to breaking loose on steep takeoffs. Others have it ... like the MT Wranglers. Why not manual FJs and Tacomas? Or (as the 4Runner had already done) is Toyota just determined to make everything auto? (A dealer told me that's exactly what they've heard Toyota is doing).
If ya can't drive a standard tacoma ya better buy a prius!
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:28 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by dhk View Post
I don't see this being a high demand feature. People who are looking for manual aren't looking for all the automatic nonsense. I prefer simple and dependable than something extra that will eventually break. If you're having a hard time starting off on an ascent, you just need to practice more.
Yeah because all that ABS, TRAC, A-TRAC, VSC, AutoLSD, e-locker and drive-by-wire shit isn't automatic.
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:34 PM   #15
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I'm guessing they didn't do it for the manual because you get the clutch start cancel switch. IDK. HAC has kicked on a few times in my truck and it is nice to not roll back on steep stuff but I think I would be just fine without it in my auto.
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
I'm guessing they didn't do it for the manual because you get the clutch start cancel switch. IDK. HAC has kicked on a few times in my truck and it is nice to not roll back on steep stuff but I think I would be just fine without it in my auto.
Yeah I've never really seen a reason for it in the auto. But on boat ramps or on some hairy steep, it would be a nice push button activated feature in a manual. Just like A-TRAC or a locker ... I sure as hell don't use them all the time, but it's nice to have the button when I need them.
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainEarth View Post
Yeah I've never really seen a reason for it in the auto. But on boat ramps or on some hairy steep, it would be a nice push button activated feature in a manual. Just like A-TRAC or a locker ... I sure as hell don't use them all the time, but it's nice to have the button when I need them.
It should be included on all the manuals and not the auto. IDK. I'm sure Toyota has a reason for it.
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:46 PM   #18
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Clutch start cancel baby.

Stop. Engine dead. Clutch out. brake off - engine braking holds position on all fours. Clutch start cancel button. turn over ignition - starter starts truck moving and also starts the engine. Yes, the starter has enough power to move the truck forward in 4lo 1st even when it's *really* steep.

No roll back.
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:53 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by S.B. View Post
Then do what tow truck drivers do: put a stick in between the seat and brake pedal.
I miss driving big trucks....the tacoma is nothing in comparison. At least I don't have to deal with stares of seeing a 20-something small chick hopping out of the 18-wheeler or the tanker I use to drive.

If I wasn't in southern california I would have a manual...im sick of so-cal I want out!
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:02 PM   #20
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Yeah clutch start cancel is cool ... when you kill the engine in 4lo. Like I've said, what I'm talking about is a dash button that could be used in 2hi or 4hi as well.

Yes it's true you can finesse the e-brake. Like I said, I did that for years. But given all the other electronic convenience crap on these things now .. manuals too .. I'm just surprised this is one Toyota hasn't done considering nearly all the parts are already there. You'd just need to add a sensor to detect rollback and then apply the brake ... just as TRAC, AutoLSD and A-TRAC apply the brake when a wheel breaks loose.

But then again, as I mentioned in my 1st post, I'm guessing Toyota probably isn't particularly eager to add any features to it's manuals, since like everyone else, they appear to be phasing them out. They dropped another 3 manual Tacoma models for the 2011 year.

It's kind of sad actually, because what I'd really love to see is an all manual everything again. A true all purpose tinker's truck that's a no nonsense workhorse. But more and more even the most tried and true models are becoming computers on wheels.
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