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Old 04-15-2011, 12:15 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
Yeah but for the 2nd gens I think they switched the gear manufacturer and there just aren't as strong as they used to be. The 05 to 07 trucks had rear end problems.
Same manufacture from what I can find.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:20 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
Same manufacture from what I can find.
Hmmmm. Maybe they changed the manufacturing process? I still know there was some kind of issue and there was a bunch of failed rear ends in the early years. It wasn't just the 8.0 either. But still the stock 8.0 gears aren't as strong as they should be from the factory.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:22 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmok View Post
Is this the same with the 1st gens? From what I've heard the 1st gen elocker rear ends are not that bad, still not as good as the "8.4" non elocker rear end.
1gen is atleast 1000 lb less
1gen = 4.10
2gen = 3.73

8" 4.10 is thicker then 8" 3.73 (not by much but apparently enough )
So 4.10 + 1000lb less = elocker FTMW
3.73 + 1000lb more = elocker sukz

8.4" rulez them all (well until you dump Tundra 10.5 in that thing I guess )
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:29 PM   #44
abides.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David K View Post
Christian, this is a discussion forum... and if every thread just was a question and answer page... with no other ideas or different thinking... would be pretty dry, don't you think?

I don't care what people drive... I have wheeled with a lot of Sport TRDs... and they admit the Off Road has more ability... and wish they had it. The hate rants are not called for, and if you can't just say what is great about your truck or what the difference is, then making up stuff is dumb. Just the facts, that's all.

I am talking pure factory equipped comparing... As I said... the OP wants ultimate traction, so he is adding a few thousand dollars for front and rear lockers. You just don't have to spend the extra money if you get an Off Raod with A-TRAC, that's all... and not enough dealers bother to sell the Off Roads as being able to do what they do. I wheeled with fully locked rigs in Baja (both TW members) and my A-TRAC did everything they did, only easier... I didn't need to turn off A-TRAC to turn sharp corners like they had to with their front lockers.

Because so many here still don't know or won't admit that Toyota made a good product that can compete with front locked rigs, I will calmly and nicely share what I have discovered... no name calling, profanity, insults.

I hope everyone enjoys their Tacoma!
I would argue your "I can keep up with fully locked trucks" argument is bunk. You've spent so much time on here tellin everyone how your OR has better equipment than a sport and is therefor better. So with a fully locked truck it's better equipment than your OR....which means the fully locked guys were taking it easy or equipment doesn't really make all the difference.

And it's funny- cause I've been out with guys that have lockers and all sorts of hoopla...and I've pulled some of those dudes out....which again tells me...Equipment isn't everything.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:46 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunes View Post
And it's funny- cause I've been out with guys that have lockers and all sorts of hoopla...and I've pulled some of those dudes out....which again tells me...Equipment isn't everything.

I would totally agree. But if you put the same driver in a fully locked vehicle vs open, the locked is going to be far more capable.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:48 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by cameronlane View Post
I would totally agree. But if you put the same driver in a fully locked vehicle vs open, the locked is going to be far more capable.
I don't think anyone would argue that
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:06 PM   #47
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
Hmmmm. Maybe they changed the manufacturing process? I still know there was some kind of issue and there was a bunch of failed rear ends in the early years. It wasn't just the 8.0 either. But still the stock 8.0 gears aren't as strong as they should be from the factory.

The 8.4" housing is stronger. IIRC, the gears are the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
1gen is atleast 1000 lb less
1gen = 4.10
2gen = 3.73

8" 4.10 is thicker then 8" 3.73 (not by much but apparently enough )
So 4.10 + 1000lb less = elocker FTMW
3.73 + 1000lb more = elocker sukz

8.4" rulez them all (well until you dump Tundra 10.5 in that thing I guess )

What makes you think the 4.10's are thicker? The 3.73's are a stronger ring gear.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:30 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
The 8.4" housing is stronger. IIRC, the gears are the same.
The 8.0 uses a 210mm ring gear while the 8.0 uses a 200mm ring gear. The 8.4 is stronger because the carrier bearings are larger.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:32 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
The 8.0 uses a 210mm ring gear while the 8.0 uses a 200mm ring gear. The 8.4 is stronger because the carrier bearings are larger.
Where did you read about the ring gear size? Everything I find says they are the same 8" diameter?
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:40 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
Where did you read about the ring gear size? Everything I find says they are the same 8" diameter?
TTORA. I'm not sure about it though. I read somewhere else that both used a 8" ring gear.

the 8.4" diff - or so it's called - isn't 8.4" afterall... it is a 210mm ring gear compared to the 200mm ring gear in the 8" diff. so, it truly isn't an 8.4" diff after all.

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...36&postcount=8
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Old 04-15-2011, 02:44 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
The 8.4" housing is stronger. IIRC, the gears are the same.




What makes you think the 4.10's are thicker? The 3.73's are a stronger ring gear.
IIRC, In order to go down on ratio (go up on number) one has to move contact surface in such a way that pinion rotates more times per one axle rotation. In order to do this you either have to thicken the ring and reduce the pinion diameter or increase the size of ring and make pinion move back. I believe both are done. Either way ring on 4.10 will have to have more iron then ring on 3.73 . Thats why the front 2gens you can not put 4.10 into the 3.73 housing and you need 4.10 housing for that (more room) Thats why elockers are limited on the top ratio. non-elockers can go as high as 5.29 ratio because there is plenty of room.
I tried finding motive gear explanation but no luck it was long time ago when I find it I will post it.
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Old 04-15-2011, 03:24 PM   #52
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
IIRC, In order to go down on ratio (go up on number) one has to move contact surface in such a way that pinion rotates more times per one axle rotation. In order to do this you either have to thicken the ring and reduce the pinion diameter or increase the size of ring and make pinion move back. I believe both are done. Either way ring on 4.10 will have to have more iron then ring on 3.73 . Thats why the front 2gens you can not put 4.10 into the 3.73 housing and you need 4.10 housing for that (more room) Thats why elockers are limited on the top ratio. non-elockers can go as high as 5.29 ratio because there is plenty of room.
I tried finding motive gear explanation but no luck it was long time ago when I find it I will post it.
The lower the number, teh more strength its going to have. To add more teeth to the same size gear, you have to cut more of them, thus reducing material in the ring gear, and/or going to a smaller diameter pinion. Many times, if going to a numerically higher gear ratio, in the same housing, gear strength is reduced. Regardless, in the end, the tire (traction) is useually the weak link.
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:21 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
The lower the number, teh more strength its going to have. To add more teeth to the same size gear, you have to cut more of them, thus reducing material in the ring gear, and/or going to a smaller diameter pinion. Many times, if going to a numerically higher gear ratio, in the same housing, gear strength is reduced. Regardless, in the end, the tire (traction) is useually the weak link.
I dont think number of teeths is realy what causes the ratio change. If you have two circles each with 10 inch diameter then they have 1:1 ratio. So one spin of first one will cause the other to spin one time. This is regardles if each have 10 or 10000 teethes. Now if you increase diameter of one to 20 inches. Your ratio is 2:1. You have to cut teethes different way to make sure they overlap correctly but its not number of teethes that make difference its the difference in circles. 20 inch circle will have more material then 10 inch circle. Same way with R&P. 3.73 will require less material then 4.10. and 4.10 will require less material then 4.56.

Shape of each teeth is balance to carry the max load with out jerking and slipping. Teethes transfer the load from gear to gear but material that holds the teeth is what transfer back to axle so if you have too much stress in between teeth and material holding them is not strong enough it will crack. Simple imagine grinding the ring to be 1 mm thick at the edge. Would that be able to hold teeths together ? Now imaging the same ring having a 1 inch of steel behind the teeths.

I think Toyota wanted to meet requirements for fuel efficiency so they went with higher gear ratio (lower the number) That works fine for non-TRD's because there is still enough steel to back that ring up. NON-TRDs dont need to have locking ring so their ring is thicker. (somebody has pictures on forum comparing two) But on TRD offroads it looks like they hit too thin. So if somebody with TRD - OR upgrades to 4.10 diff should last much longer, 4.56 would be even better.

Sorry about long post
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:24 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
I dont think number of teeths is realy what causes the ratio change. If you have two circles each with 10 inch diameter then they have 1:1 ratio. So one spin of first one will cause the other to spin one time. This is regardles if each have 10 or 10000 teethes. Now if you increase diameter of one to 20 inches. Your ratio is 2:1. You have to cut teethes different way to make sure they overlap correctly but its not number of teethes that make difference its the difference in circles. 20 inch circle will have more material then 10 inch circle. Same way with R&P. 3.73 will require less material then 4.10. and 4.10 will require less material then 4.56.

Shape of each teeth is balance to carry the max load with out jerking and slipping. Teethes transfer the load from gear to gear but material that holds the teeth is what transfer back to axle so if you have too much stress in between teeth and material holding them is not strong enough it will crack. Simple imagine grinding the ring to be 1 mm thick at the edge. Would that be able to hold teeths together ? Now imaging the same ring having a 1 inch of steel behind the teeths.
I think Toyota wanted to meet requirements for fuel efficiency so they went with higher gear ratio (lower the number) That works fine for non-TRD's because there is still enough steel to back that ring up. But on TRD offroads it looks like they hit too thin. So if somebody with TRD - OR upgrades to 4.10 diff should last much longer, 4.56 would be even better.

Sorry about long post
Could have saved you're time if you would have just looked it up.

http://www.technologystudent.com/gears1/gears5.htm
1:2 ratio

3:1


4:1
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:41 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98tacoma27 View Post
Could have saved you're time if you would have just looked it up.

http://www.technologystudent.com/gears1/gears5.htm
1:2 ratio

3:1


4:1
Yeah but that explanation is precisely what will confuse people and make them think number of teeths is what makes the ratio. Its not, Ratio comes from difference in circumference of two circles. The exact middle of where gears mesh is where two circumferences meet.
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:48 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
Yeah but that explanation is precisely what will confuse people and make them think number of teeths is what makes the ratio. Its not, Ratio comes from difference in circumference of two circles. The exact middle of where gears mesh is where two circumferences meet.
No its not. The diameter is fixed. an 8" ring gear can not be made larger, and fit the housing. Therefore, more teeth are cut into it to get the required ratio. In many cases, the pinion size can be changed a little bit too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueT View Post
Yeah but that explanation is precisely what will confuse people and make them think number of teeths is what makes the ratio. Its not, Ratio comes from difference in circumference of two circles. The exact middle of where gears mesh is where two circumferences meet.
No it doesn't with respect to ring and pinion gears. It's the number of teeth. You cannot change the diameter of the ring. It's a constant. You have to change the number of teeth. The teeth are what govern the distant the gears move in relation to each other. It's the same theory that governs a screw. A fine thread screw will travel less that a coarse thread screw per revolution.

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Old 04-15-2011, 04:59 PM   #58
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I think you both should lock and unlock your rear diffs over and over with one rear tire stopped and the other tire spinning to see which one diff pukes first.
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Here's a visual explanation.

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Old 04-15-2011, 05:33 PM   #60
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DevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shedDevL is one of the sharper tools in the shed
Joined: Feb 2010, #31952
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DevL's Tacoma Gallery
So I read on this post that you cant put a 4.10 from a 4 banger in a front diff of a TRD Off Road because it wont fit? I was about to buy a 4 banger 4.10 front diff. Please let me know if this is the case or not.
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