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Nitrogen in tires....(Warning. Unscientific test inside)

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Old 07-01-2011, 02:50 PM   #1
chris4x4 [OP] chris4x4 is offline
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Nitrogen in tires....(Warning. Unscientific test inside)

A friend of mine, and myself, decided to see whats what in the world of Nitrogen vs. "Air". First, The most pure Nitrogen we could find from local tire shops, was only 95% pure Nitrogen. Unless a shop gets its Nitrogen from a local gas company, then the machines they use to get the pure nitrogen arent as "pure" as people think. Anyway, Upon researching this N2 use in tires, vs. "air", we came accross some info. Seems the reason regular air expands more in heat, is due to the moisture content. Being as he has an air "dryer" on his compressor, we decided to cunduct our own little experiments. Filling 3 20# high pressure tanks with different gasses. 1 with Nitrogen from a local gas company, 1 with Co2, and the other with regular "Off the shelf" Air. All three tanks were filled to 150 psi, as that was what his compressor was set at, and we wanted to keep the pressures equal amoung the 3. The tanks were filled to 150 psi at 82*, then thrown in his freezer in his garage over night. The temp was 0*. The next afternoon, he checked the temps, and found they had all dropped the same. Then, He left them outside for a couple days. PSI was checked at 4 pm, and the tanks were 145*. PSI was the same accross the board. We are currently testing to see if his tires deflate, or stay in flated at the same psi's longer with N2 vs. Co2 vs. Air right now. Results should be ready in 30 days. Some people say that the larger molecules of the Co2, and n2 keep the psi more stable in tires, as teh pourus rubber allows air molecules to filter thru it more than does N2 or Co2. We'll see. Being that the moisture in the air can cause the tire psi to be less stable, I can see how N2 "might" have a benafit in more humid environments, but those that live in.....say, a Desert, arent going to see any benafits from N2. (IMHO). Now.....I know some people are going to say that using N2 reduces Corosion in the wheel. Fine. I agree. However, I have never seen a wheel fail due to any corosion in it. Could be my location......
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:57 PM   #3
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this IS his hobby-
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:58 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Ridgerunner View Post
this IS his hobby-

I thought his hobby was more blowing things up and lighting stuff on fire?
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:00 PM   #5
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im interested to hear the results. I know jeep guys who swear by nitrogen in the tires for permeation loss and also for less psi fluxuation at differing altitudes. personally, i think they just like to tell people they put N2 in their tires. great idea for a test btw.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:00 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Jester243 View Post
I thought his hobby was more blowing things up and lighting stuff on fire?
No no no
Its catching and releasing spiders
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:00 PM   #7
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Hey Chris I am with you on this-never needed that crap in our tires till someone stuk it out there as the "it" thing. Besides-isnt air 78% nitrogen anyways?? So you're only increasing your nitrogen 20%
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
I know some people are going to say that using N2 reduces Corosion in the wheel. Fine. I agree. However, I have never seen a wheel fail due to any corosion in it. Could be my location......
I'm more worried about TPMS sensor corrosion not the whole wheel.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:01 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jester243 View Post
I thought his hobby was more blowing things up and lighting stuff on fire?
No that his funtime-this is when he's thinkin about stuff
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:05 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Jester243 View Post
I thought his hobby was more blowing things up and lighting stuff on fire?
I'm hoping this experiment will get to that point after the preliminary testing is done.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
I'm more worried about TPMS sensor corrosion not the whole wheel.
Ironically, most TPMS sensor corrosion is cause by moisture in the air

Only benifits of Nitrogen are:

1) Less permeable through rubber.

2) Less expansion and contraction (As Chris stated, more from moisture then anything). Also, Nitrogen technically DOES expand and contract less then PURE O2 (Notice the pure, the tests conducted in my textbooks mentioned this), but this effect is so small its neglegable. There is a ratio of nitrogen expantion table vs temperature in my Power engineering books.

3) Nitrogen is an inert gas, meaning it doesn't burn. which means fuck all when your tire explodes in a real world environment. I actually once had a dodge salesmen try to tell me if my vehicle was ever on fire to the point that my tires would explode, that the nitrogen in them when they burst would not fuel the fire.... I laughed at him and said if my vehicle is on fire to the point of tires exploding, insurance will buy me a new one.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:17 PM   #12
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In a place like Charleston SC where the humidity is rediculous, I believe N2 does make a differance.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:18 PM   #13
chris4x4 [OP] chris4x4 is offline
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
I'm more worried about TPMS sensor corrosion not the whole wheel.
IIRC, THe TPMS sensors in the wheel (exposed parts) are plastic, or coated in plastic.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTusk View Post
Ironically, most TPMS sensor corrosion is cause by moisture in the air

Only benifits of Nitrogen are:

1) Less permeable through rubber.

2) Less expansion and contraction (As Chris stated, more from moisture then anything). Also, Nitrogen technically DOES expand and contract less then PURE O2 (Notice the pure, the tests conducted in my textbooks mentioned this), but this effect is so small its neglegable. There is a ratio of nitrogen expantion table vs temperature in my Power engineering books.

3) Nitrogen is an inert gas, meaning it doesn't burn. which means fuck all when your tire explodes in a real world environment. I actually once had a dodge salesmen try to tell me if my vehicle was ever on fire to the point that my tires would explode, that the nitrogen in them when they burst would not fuel the fire.... I laughed at him and said if my vehicle is on fire to the point of tires exploding, insurance will buy me a new one.
Yeah I know. I have been using gas station compressors for the past few days because I have a leaky tire and the same amount of water comes from both hoses. So I have been thinking about running nitrogen to keep any moisture out of my tires that would damage the sensors over time. I'm not looking for a MPG increase or anything like most places claim.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:18 PM   #15
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YES, most people do not realize that--guess they want a few more bucks to put air in your tires--trying to justify the extra cost--WHAT A RACKET--
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:19 PM   #16
chris4x4 [OP] chris4x4 is offline
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkgreentaco View Post
im interested to hear the results. I know jeep guys who swear by nitrogen in the tires for permeation loss and also for less psi fluxuation at differing altitudes. personally, i think they just like to tell people they put N2 in their tires. great idea for a test btw.
THATS A DAM GOOD IDEA!!! Altitudes! I will check the PSI at 1100 feet, and again at 7500 feet, and see if there is much difference. i wont be able to do this right away, so give me time
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
THATS A DAM GOOD IDEA!!! Altitudes! I will check the PSI at 1100 feet, and again at 7500 feet, and see if there is much difference. i wont be able to do this right away, so give me time
Rent a plane for an afternoon and test at 40,000 ft
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:25 PM   #18
chris4x4 [OP] chris4x4 is offline
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTusk View Post
Rent a plane for an afternoon and test at 40,000 ft
When someone has a Tacoma at that altitude, I'll consider a way to check the PSI.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
When someone has a Tacoma at that altitude, I'll consider a way to check the PSI.
Is that a challange?
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:32 PM   #20
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Actually air has 78% nitrogen already so how could adding a measly 18% more nitrogen make a frikkin difference?
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