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Old 11-14-2011, 04:19 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David K View Post
This is why we need to do the mod, to stop fluid from getting in...
If it was getting in thru the seals, My axel would be toast by now, with as many times as I have driven my truck thru water, and even left it submerged while I was boating. My oil always comes out clean when I change it, as I have extended the breather. Before the mod, After about 5 or so trips to the lake, the oil would have a bit of water in it.
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:22 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
If it was getting in thru the seals, My axel would be toast by now, with as many times as I have driven my truck thru water, and even left it submerged while I was boating. My oil always comes out clean when I change it, as I have extended the breather. Before the mod, After about 5 or so trips to the lake, the oil would have a bit of water in it.
I've crossed 2 creeks twice in the last 2 weeks.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:59 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
If it was getting in thru the seals, My axel would be toast by now, with as many times as I have driven my truck thru water, and even left it submerged while I was boating. My oil always comes out clean when I change it, as I have extended the breather. Before the mod, After about 5 or so trips to the lake, the oil would have a bit of water in it.
Yes, exactly... before the mod water got in... After the mod, no water... That is what we all have been saying!
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Old 11-15-2011, 01:03 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by nmcqueen280 View Post
ok yeah that makes sense i just didnt realize you were conneting the breather's function to the failure of the axle seals
but, apparently your theory on axle seals is under review
It is fact... My just 5 month old, new truck rear diff. was contaminated after the deep mud water crossing, with the stock breather. The front diff. (with the 2 way, elevated breather) was fine.

Now, I have a 2 way breather, elevated on the rear diff.
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:14 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by David K View Post
Yes, exactly... before the mod water got in... After the mod, no water... That is what we all have been saying!
Which in no way proves your theory.
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:15 AM   #46
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I'm liking the filter setup. Keeps road dust out.
As for the breather... Reloacte the damn thing out of range of water crossings and splash. It's been proven to prevent water from getting in regardless of what you think is causing it.
JUST DOOOOO EEEEEET
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:02 AM   #48
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This isn't worth the server space to keep going round and round about. All has been covered. End result is.......do the mod and there will be no pressure building up from heat and no water coming in from driving in cool water or from submerging a 2 way breather. When the seals wear then there will be fluid on the brake shoes and rims and where the backing plate is bolted to the axle housing or front of pumpkin if it's the pinion seal.
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:34 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by whippersnapper02 View Post
Drunk on ATRAC.

live via
ATRAC repels water
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:24 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by David K View Post
I am not nuts (on this anyway).

The rubber disc sits on the opening, and the spring pushes down against it. You can blow air out of the diff side with some force to open the valve... as in hot gasses escaping the diff..

However, unless that spring and rubber disc is removed, you cannot blow air into the diff. Blow as hard as you like! The water is NOT getting in here with that disc and spring in place. It gets in past the axle seals.

Putting a 2 way breather in place of this one way one in your picture (up higher at the end of a hose), is what eliminates a vacuum that would cause water to get it. Why does Toyota do this on the front diff., if not true? (of course, why don't they do it on the rear??!!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by David K View Post
Water is not getting in through the factory breather... Relocating is only a waste if you put the same one way breather on the end of the tube... You must use the same breather that Toyota uses on the front (or a filter)... to allow 2 way air movement.

The purpose of the different breather, re-located, is to break the vacuum so water doesn't suck into the diff. past the axle seals.
My head is going to explode for the mere fact that you are so dead set on your theories that you can't actually believe what you are saying.

Water WILL enter through the stock breather and not the axle seals!!!!

Did you know there is also a breather on the transmission and transfer case? I learned from someone who spent $6k on a new automatic transmission on an 2007 FJC after he went thru some deep water and strawberry milkshaked it. Going to tell me that water entered thru the driveshafe seals? The stock breather sucks for keeping water out and is designed for the "average" driver who isn't fjording deep water crossings.

Yes relocating ALL breathers to a more suitable location that permits free flow of air will prevent premature wear on the axle seals. If you leave the stock breather there and only relocate it to a higher location you will be fine. Made many water crossings with it like that with no issues or milkshakes.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:52 AM   #51
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Sadly David K is right. (or atleast i agree with him)
I know I know but he is...
I have (had) that kind, one way breather, on my solid axle. If seals are good that thing will suck not only water but grease from your birfs.
I had wasted set of Marlin seals on my first SFA rebuild thinking I put seals wrong. New seals + one way breather = massive suction inside the axle. So if that thing can suck in container of grease, for sure it can suck in water.
Just saying...
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:39 AM   #52
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No, he's not. The only way you're getting massive suction inside the housing is if the internal temperature was raised close to boiling. And if it is getting that hot, you've got other issues. An oil seal can withstand any where from 7-30 psi, depending on the type. There is no way you're going to create any where near 7 psi in a housing that size without over heating it.........not to mention the breather won't let it get that high.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:44 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98tacoma27 View Post
No, he's not. The only way you're getting massive suction inside the housing is if the internal temperature was raised close to boiling. And if it is getting that hot, you've got other issues. An oil seal can withstand any where from 7-30 psi, depending on the type. There is no way you're going to create any where near 7 psi in a housing that size without over heating it.........not to mention the breather won't let it get that high.
Help me out here. By that logic, you'd never need a breather at all, right?
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:50 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by bjmoose View Post
Help me out here. By that logic, you'd never need a breather at all, right?
By logic, no. There are axles out there without them.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:18 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98tacoma27 View Post
No, he's not. The only way you're getting massive suction inside the housing is if the internal temperature was raised close to boiling. And if it is getting that hot, you've got other issues. An oil seal can withstand any where from 7-30 psi, depending on the type. There is no way you're going to create any where near 7 psi in a housing that size without over heating it.........not to mention the breather won't let it get that high.
I know for a fact that my rear diff (2gen truck) with dino oil can get up to 200F on 45 mile drive. I checked that when I was trying to find synthethic to work with LSD
I know what your saying with the seals but they are really not that strong especially when axles are rotating. I dont know with what pressure axle ends up but I know my seals were sucking in all of the grease from my knuckles. And that's with Marlin seals which are 10 times better then Toyota factory seals. When I removed one way breather all stopped. Including vacuum sound everytime I had unscrew the fill bolt from diff.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:54 AM   #56
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The system is an open system (not closed/sealed). Not only because the oils/pressure can build up (minimal) but because it allows for proper circulation of the fluids within the system.

Have you ever tried to drink water out of a water bottle that didn't have a vent tube to allow air in as you sucked the water out? Very difficult to get the water out. Same concept.....oil can't flow inside the diff properly without being an open system. If you have that much vacuum in a system, then there's something else wrong.....and your oil is not flowing properly.

People tend to forget - the oil is inside the axle tube and it flows in the axle tube itself to lubricate the wheel bearings. The seal at the end of each tube prevents the oil from going out and the water from going in. Seals are not bulletproof but when they fail, oil will come out. If seals are not installed properly, exposure to a lot of water/mud, bad wheel bearings, worn or uneven shaft, clogged breather - can cause seal damage.

The breather (the actual part) is just a cap. It does nothing but cover/cap an opening.
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:36 AM   #57
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Remind me how oil won't flow in a closed system. It flows perfectly fine inside of an oil can You're not removing or adding fluid to the system. It circulates entirely by getting slung by the diff carrier and centrifugal force.
The vent is there to remove pressure from expanding air/oil. Remember that your engine coolant system is regulated to 15(or so) PSI by the cap. It builds up pressure from the heat of the engine transferring to the coolant which expands. The radiator has it's own breather(inside the cap). When the pressure is removed, it sucks coolant in from the overflow tank.
The diffs and transmissions work on the same principles as the engine. Left unchecked, pressure from expanding air/oil will cause gasket/seal issues.
Just for example: notice the relatively size of our brake booster. It uses vac from the engine(less than 15hg") to produce a large amount of boost in a very small amount of space.
Now remind me again about your theories of the function of the diff breather
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:21 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skytower View Post
Remind me how oil won't flow in a closed system. It flows perfectly fine inside of an oil can You're not removing or adding fluid to the system. It circulates entirely by getting slung by the diff carrier and centrifugal force.
The vent is there to remove pressure from expanding air/oil. Remember that your engine coolant system is regulated to 15(or so) PSI by the cap. It builds up pressure from the heat of the engine transferring to the coolant which expands. The radiator has it's own breather(inside the cap). When the pressure is removed, it sucks coolant in from the overflow tank.
The diffs and transmissions work on the same principles as the engine. Left unchecked, pressure from expanding air/oil will cause gasket/seal issues.
Just for example: notice the relatively size of our brake booster. It uses vac from the engine(less than 15hg") to produce a large amount of boost in a very small amount of space.
Now remind me again about your theories of the function of the diff breather
It's not a closed system and I'm obviously not explaining it well enough for you to understand what I'm mean by that....

Your coolant system is a closed system. Water turns into a gas when its heated and evaporates. Oil does not turn into a gas (in your diff) and does not evaporate.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:39 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janster View Post
The system is an open system (not closed/sealed). Not only because the oils/pressure can build up (minimal) but because it allows for proper circulation of the fluids within the system.

Have you ever tried to drink water out of a water bottle that didn't have a vent tube to allow air in as you sucked the water out? Very difficult to get the water out. Same concept.....oil can't flow inside the diff properly without being an open system. If you have that much vacuum in a system, then there's something else wrong.....and your oil is not flowing properly.

People tend to forget - the oil is inside the axle tube and it flows in the axle tube itself to lubricate the wheel bearings. The seal at the end of each tube prevents the oil from going out and the water from going in. Seals are not bulletproof but when they fail, oil will come out. If seals are not installed properly, exposure to a lot of water/mud, bad wheel bearings, worn or uneven shaft, clogged breather - can cause seal damage.

The breather (the actual part) is just a cap. It does nothing but cover/cap an opening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janster View Post
It's not a closed system and I'm obviously not explaining it well enough for you to understand what I'm mean by that....

Your coolant system is a closed system. Water turns into a gas when its heated and evaporates. Oil does not turn into a gas (in your diff) and does not evaporate.
Confused am I
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:47 PM   #60
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the definition of a closed system is that no fluid is crossing over your control volume boundary, which in this case would be your axle housing. So it is an open system in that air is going past the axle housing via the breather (oil, however, is not, unless you flop).

Im going to have to agree that that flimsy breather will let water into the axle, maybe if it were better built it wouldn't but then you would have bigger problems with there being a constant vacuum (when the axle is cool) in the axle, ruining your seals.
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