you call THAT ABS braking?

ok, i hail from Alaska, and the only time my ABS system ever kicks in, is when I'm going too fast for the road conditions. So far my truck has been the best handling vehicle ive ever driven on snowy/icy roads. there has been a few times where if i didn't have ABS, i would have slid even farther out into traffic. i drive down and up a hill thats at least 30% grade, if not more, everyday and have yet for me not to be able to stop going down it. the only problem i see is your driving too fast.

 

Part the problem in the parking lot was I had boots on and was still learning to position my foot different due the angle of the pedals. Regardless, I would be pissed to get into an accident a week after getting the truck because of the ABS. I don't really care what you say about it. I highly doubt you were an expert and knew EVERYTHING about this truck when you bought it and started driving it.

As for the engine braking, etc. No shit.... I KNOW that, and it is easy.... However, when you've already done that and are still a few feet from a busy intersection you want to stop NOW. Not when the ABS finally stops the truck.

2 months ago when I had an interview I had to start slowing from 30mph about 1,000ft from the intersection because of the ABS. That's bullshit, and not practical unless you KNOW where all the stop signs are. (Or god forbid a kid runs out in front of you.)

Yes.... And in emergency situations I want to STOP. Not continue rolling.

I'm talking about down shifting, engine braking, and slowing for a stop sign on a snowy road. A time when I NEED to stop before hitting oncoming cars and even at speeds barely registered by the speedometer the ABS kicks in and makes the truck slide a few feet further than without. A few few can be the difference between be safe and getting broadsided by a plow truck.

Regardless, with the ABS disabled I can apply more pressure to the brakes without the truck sliding than I can with the ABS enabled. It tends to make the tires skip across the snow like a flat stone across water. Without the ABS doing that crap I can apply the brakes harder and stop shorter regardless of if the brakes lock up or not.

This ABS system seems to let the wheels spin more than brake. Nothing you can say will change my mind as I have had the truck for 2 years, I know how it reacts, I have experienced the ABS failing to stop me, and I've had time to compare the truck with ABS and without ABS. Can you say the same? Not trying to say I'm an expert, but I think I know how the truck reacts after driving 2 years through 8"+ of standing water, snowy roads, wet roads, mud, off road trails, dirt roads, and 12"+ deep snow. I've had damn near every weather condition NY can throw at you except for hurricanes and tornadoes.

After seeing how the ABS fails to stop the truck in an emergency, I don't stop anymore. I'll swerve before I mash the brakes.

 

Whatever floats your boat.... that's your safety, not mine.

You should contact your insurance company and tell them you've disengaged your ABS.

Get the truck looked at by the dealer - because by the way you describe it, it's coming on way too early and way too easily. You may know how your truck reacts - then you should've had it to the dealer already and started complaining about it instead of putting a switch in to disengage it.

 

+1

You're rates will go up some but at least they can't completely deny a claim for undisclosed modifications to safety devices. No sh!t. You get into a wreck and they find out you screwed up your built-in safety mechanisims upon which they have calculated your rates, you'll get nothing from them and they have every legal right to do it.

 

It all comes down to the way you drive. You have to adapt your driving to the road and weather conditions.
I never said that the ABS system makes you break on a shorter distance, I said that it helps you steer your car so if a child runs out in front of you and you're in snow driving 50 km/h, your abs is gonna save that kid.
But if you start to brake before you usually start to brake and drive slower, you shouldn't have any problems on street corners even if there's ice on the corner which happened to me quite a few times but I never got a few feet further than the corner. It only means that you drive too fast ( when I say too fast I don't mean + 30mph, 5 mph is a huge difference in these conditions) and didn't judge correctly the road.
Again. No offense.

 

You mean take to the dealer and hear "it's normal" like every other thing? Have you actually read how many people on TN complain about the same thing? I can't count the number of threads and posts I've read about it so it seems "normal" for this truck. Unless at least 50% of them are defective. I find that hard to believe.

And yes, it does engage too soon. That what I was trying to explain when you kept acting like ABS is the best thing in the world. Maybe it is on other vehicles, but not these. And thats why I have the option to disable it.

And this really is no different than running the locker so that disables the ABS.

hmmmm... Guess I'll get in trouble for my Corolla too since it DOESN'T have ABS, but the insurance company thinks it does. I even told them it didn't have ABS, but since the VIN check through their system says it does they listed it on my policy. They'd have to prove my mods caused the accident or made it worse.

To both of you, it's not like I'm completely shutting off the brake controllers or boosters. The brakes still function so if a claim gets denied over that, then the insurance company will get a call from a lawyer.

 

I understand what your saying, and, ideally, that's what should happen. Unfortunately, that's not what does happen. I've tried steering when the ABS kicks in. A few times in the old gravel parking lot for kicks to see what happened, and couple times to avoid hitting tree branches. Each time I had no steering response. The truck keeping sliding straight. After those experiences would you honestly think about trying to swerve on a snowy road? I wouldn't. Not now. Not after tail spinning an older car, and feeling my truck fish tail.

 

You'd lose. My wife works as an underwriter for one of the biggest auto insurers in the nation. I've heard dozens of stories (she said there are thousands each year) where people disable, modify, or otherwise screw up a safety system on their vehicle and the company will NOT pay. If you call them up and tell them that you have spliced into a harness that controls a safety device which they are currently giving you a discount for having, they will up your rates to compensate for the reduced safety.

I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with your statement that the ABS is crap. You just need to make sure you understand that you've opened yourself up to a denied claim if you were to be in an accident. No lawyer you have will be better than the ones the insurance company has especially when you clearly violated your contract with the insurance company. There's a nice little clause in the contract that requires modifications to be disclosed and another that allows them to void the contract should any information provided be found incorrect. They have NO burden of proof that the mod caused the accident or contributed in any way. Simply by having the mod you have given them the legal right to deny.

Only trying to help. You might want to have a lawyer look at your contract with your agency and see what your particular exposure is. Maybe it's not worth it to you but I'd at least want to make an informed decision.

 

Here are some comments from people on TN regarding the ABS:

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1135358&postcount=16

Note the "skating" or skipping problem I mentioned repeatedly.

Wish I could find the post about a guy testing it on a snowy trail down a hill. He pushed the brakes, ABS kicked in, and the truck actually accelerated down the hill instead of stopped. It was a trail off the road, with nothing to hit, and no traffic so he decided to test it. Pumping the brakes manually he could stop each time. But repeated attempts with the ABS kicking in always resulted with him at the bottom of the hill before coming to a stop. It's situations like that which concern me enough to have the option to kill the ABS. I don't have more than a couple miles from my house in either direction without a hill. And several "mountains" to cross several times. So stopping on a hill is a major priority for me.

 

Actually, I haven't heard much about it at all. So - it doesn't get nearly as much 'attention' as other complaints (auto lurch, clutch complaints, leaf springs, etc). Besides - majority of the complaints are during ice/snowy conditions. Regardless of the ABS system or not - your tires are still gonna skate/slide across the snow no matter what style of braking you use.

I'm not saying it's bad or good. It's a safety feature put into place and tested and approved by toyota engineers, NTSB, and the goverment. So - I trust they've designed & engineered it to the best of your safety (and mine). Surely, it's not gonna be perfect in ice/snow or slippy conditions (nothing is perfect in ice/snow/slippy conditions) but I have faith that it'll save my azz in a life-threatening scenario.

I have yet to feel mine doing anything and I always manage to stop at the right spot on the snow/ice everytime. No skating, skidding, nothing. I guess I'm driving too slow in those conditions....

 

LOL. Good one about the foot massager. If anyone has driven a vehicle with a well engineered ABS in the snow or ice (like your Subaru), then they would realize that the Tacoma ABS is crap on slippery surfaces. Fortunately, the snow melted off the roads today and I once again fell in love with my truck.

 

First let me say this. Shut up TheMaster, you waste precious space on TW when you post.

Secondly, this has me kind of concerned. I haven't noticed any problems with my brakes in wet conditions or on dirt roads (although i have driven really fast on some dirt roads). I'd like to test this out in the snow. unfortunately it only snows once MAYBE twice a year down here. It snowed a few days ago but i didnt have a chance to drive in it. it snowed at night and i had already taken some ambien and decided it was not a good idea to go play in my truck, and by the morning the roads were just wet and kinda slushy. One reason i got 4x4 is because i'd like to move to virginia or somewhere liek that in the next few years and i wanted 4x4 for the nasty weather up there. I'm gonna be pissed if i have the same problems you guys are complainging about in snowy/icy conditions. The ABS on the Beamer worked exactly like it was suppose to. i have no problems on dirt roads, hopefully i can say the same thing whenever i get a chance to play in the snow....

And thirdly... shut up TheMaster



P.S. TheMaster, let me know what your dealer says

 

Thats interesting.... does that go for the grey wire mod too? I wanted to do the grey wire mod after my warranty ran out so i could engage teh locker at any time (obviously not at high speeds or cornering). The locker is an offroad feature for helping gain traction, not a safety feature. could an insurance company deny your claim for a mod like that?

 

The dealer said, if you believe the brake pedal is a foot messager, then you must be a red neck.

 

My ABS is about as useful as tits on a bull. ABS kicks in on my truck even if I'm just crawling along and ever so slightly touch the brakes. The system makes enough noise too! However, it doesn't bother me enough to really be concerned.

 

The contracts I've seen are all worded with concern towards safety functions like ABS and airbags, etc. I don't know if it would apply to other, non-safety item mods. Interesting question though.

 

Frankly, I've never seen a truck ABS that was worth a crap in snow. My wife's Ram 2500 is even worse than the Taco. There's simply not enough weight on the back axle and it locks REALLY easily on snow causing the system to activate prematurely. Anyone who's grown up around snow can stop a truck on the white stuff better than ABS can. Tossing a couple sandbags in back helps a little.

 

Take a tour of the search function over on TN for ABS and other brake-related topics. There's quit a few. Too many unfortunately to locate the one I really wanted to find about the guy testing it on a "safe" hill where he knew he wouldn't damage anything. It's posts like that that make me concerned about all the hills around here without guard rails, long drops off one side, little room to go before things go bad fast, and half-assed (or none at all) plow jobs.

Any idea how that works with my car? Insurance company said it has ABS, I know it doesn't, I told them that, and they still put the discount down for ABS. And told me not to worry about it!

Maybe that's the problem! I think these trucks are lighter in the rear end than any other truck out there due to the composite bed! Would the ABS kick in and pump all 4 brakes if just the rear started to lock up due to lack of weight and traction?

Maybe that's a simply solution.... A little more weight for better traction and better ABS response. I had 240lbs of wood pellets in the bed for a couple weeks, but it never snowed so I took them out. Now we have snow, and my wife has a bunch of toys from the inlaws in there I haven't bothered to take out. Maybe I should test the ABS again, load up some pellets, test again, and see if that helps.

 

I'll let my cow's respond to the about statement, fluffy!

 

Sorry, but I already used the search feature and know how to use it often.
Thanks...but I still didn't find much.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226399&highlight=ABS

..and 9 pages in....

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167586&highlight=ABS

That still isn't enough to convince me to mess with the ABS. And as I stated before, I've yet to feel it engage or do anything on any vehicles I've owned that had it. So either your truck needs to go to the dealer or I'm driving too slowly and using my brakes too lightly. So be it. I like the way I drive.
Thanks

You can do whatever you want - disable it or whatever. I just hope to gawd you don't have it disengaged and end up killing yourself or someone else when it could've saved your life.