you call THAT ABS braking?

robo (sebring1970) · 01-17-2008, 04:49 PM

I had my Tacoma out on some snowy roads for the first time tonight, and I got to feel the ABS brakes. THEY SUCK. They are way too sensitive. I approached a stop sign at 10 mph and I thought the brakes weren't going to stop me in time before I rolled out into the intersection. The brakes work great without the ABS and I guarantee I could stop the truck quicker without them. They lurch, the pedal pulsates about twice a second. I can hear a little motor whine down each time after I hit the brakes with ABS. But the brakes spend more time off than on with the ABS engaged. What gives? Am I missing something or are these the worst ABS brakes I've ever driven, and I've driven a lot of vehicles with ABS?

klown · 01-17-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robo (sebring1970)

I had my Tacoma out on some snowy roads for the first time tonight, and I got to feel the ABS brakes. THEY SUCK. They are way too sensitive. I approached a stop sign at 10 mph and I thought the brakes weren't going to stop me in time before I rolled out into the intersection. The brakes work great without the ABS and I guarantee I could stop the truck quicker without them. They lurch, the pedal pulsates about twice a second. I can hear a little motor whine down each time after I hit the brakes with ABS. But the brakes spend more time off than on with the ABS engaged. What gives? Am I missing something or are these the worst ABS brakes I've ever driven, and I've driven a lot of vehicles with ABS?

ABS should only kick in when the computer thinks you're about to lock up the brakes. Once you lock up the brakes it will take forever to stop. So being that the ABS became engaged it must have thought you were gonna lock up the brakes. So either you were about to lock up the brakes or there is something wrong with your ABS system.

piercedtiger · 01-17-2008, 05:16 PM

It's normal for these trucks. The ABS sucks in snow/gravel/dirt/sand.... Basically anything other than dry asphalt. Read this:

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tec...html#post45912

concrete jedi · 01-17-2008, 05:36 PM

They do take a little time getting used to, but once you do they're ok. Just in case there is something wrong with them, have them checked out, couldn't cost that much, and knowing that all is well is priceless, not to sound too corny .

robo (sebring1970) · 01-17-2008, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercedtiger

It's normal for these trucks. The ABS sucks in snow/gravel/dirt/sand.... Basically anything other than dry asphalt.

Thanks for the links. Now I know what I am going to do with this extra in-dash switch I have. Use it to turn off the ABS when it is slippery out! Geez.

piercedtiger · 01-17-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robo (sebring1970)

Thanks for the links. Now I know what I am going to do with this extra in-dash switch I have. Use it to turn off the ABS when it is slippery out! Geez.

You're welcome. Let me know if you have any questions about it. It took some trial and error on my part, and a couple PM's to the guy that figured it out to clarify a few things for me

robo (sebring1970) · 01-17-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klown

ABS should only kick in when the computer thinks you're about to lock up the brakes. Once you lock up the brakes it will take forever to stop. So being that the ABS became engaged it must have thought you were gonna lock up the brakes. So either you were about to lock up the brakes or there is something wrong with your ABS system.

I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I am some kind of Schumacher, but I have some track time under my belt and I have been to a couple of driving schools. And I can guarantee you that I can stop my truck quicker and in a shorter distance under the snowy conditions outside right now without the ABS. That pretty much defeats the purpose of ABS, if you axe me. A well designed ABS should make a better driver out of anyone, under any conditions.

In case you can't tell, I'm a little bit steamed. I love my new Tacoma so far, but the main reason I bought it was so I could park my sports cars in the winter and tool around with some 4WD. I did not imagine the brakes would be an issue.

piercedtiger · 01-17-2008, 06:49 PM

Speaking of snow, where do you hail from?

As a side note, I turned off the ABS a couple days ago on intermittent snowy roads and the brakes seemed firmer.... As in, they were a little harder to push. Worked perfectly fine, but weren't as "squishy" as when I flipped the switch back off. So that may be an added bonus since I've heard people complain about the brakes being soft/mushy/squishy/whatever. I know it felt like it was taking longer to stop with the ABS enabled again, but it wasn't engaging (no vibrating pedal, etc).

robo (sebring1970) · 01-17-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercedtiger

Speaking of snow, where do you hail from?

We had about 4 inches of snow dumped on us here today in Harrisburg, PA

piercedtiger · 01-17-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robo (sebring1970)

We had about 4 inches of snow dumped on us here today in Harrisburg, PA

Cool. I used to drive through there on my way between NY and SC. Don't remember much of it though! In a hurry to get through, and usually had been driving for 9-10 hours already.

We got a couple inches this after noon. Not too bad, but enough to make a mess. ABS would've been off if I took the truck anywhere after it snowed.

Janster · 01-17-2008, 07:40 PM

Have you ever been in a serious emergency situation where the ABS saved your azz? You'd think differently about ABS.

Lots of engineers & testing were done to make sure it works to save your life. It prevents wheel lock up AND you retain steering control.

I wouldn't mess with the ABS - your life could depend on them someday.

piercedtiger · 01-17-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janster

Have you ever been in a serious emergency situation where the ABS saved your azz? You'd think differently about ABS.

Lots of engineers & testing were done to make sure it works to save your life. It prevents wheel lock up AND you retain steering control.

I wouldn't mess with the ABS - your life could depend on them someday.

No, but I have been in several situations where ABS almost caused an accident and the only thing that prevented that was a lack of traffic.

Thanks for your advice though. I'll keep my switch thanks. My car doesn't have ABS so I sorta know how to drive without nanny controls.

Oh, and maybe you missed the post on TN where a guy tested the ABS on a snowy trail without anything to hit. He could NOT stop with the ABS engaging and slid all the way to the bottom of the hill. Threshold braking he could stop every time as long as he could avoid the ABS kicking in. If you have to threshold brake or pump them manually, then it sorta defeats the whole purpose of ABS does it not?

piercedtiger · 01-17-2008, 07:52 PM

Oh, and for the record my ABS is enabled 99% of the time. It's those snowy roads where I'd rather lock up and slide to a stop than skip like a rock across water where it gets turned off. At least if the brakes lock up I know I'll stop whereas with the ABS I'm not so sure.....

robo (sebring1970) · 01-17-2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janster

Have you ever been in a serious emergency situation where the ABS saved your azz? You'd think differently about ABS.

Lots of engineers & testing were done to make sure it works to save your life. It prevents wheel lock up AND you retain steering control.

I wouldn't mess with the ABS - your life could depend on them someday.

I hear you. I have done plenty of panic stops with ABS, including racing at Sebring with ABS on a soaking wet track. Another one that comes to mind was in a Cadillac Sedan de Ville carrying 6 guys with me as the driver, and a wet road. For now, I have concluded that the Tacoma ABS is flawed. I reserve the right to change my mind in the future, but I don't think so, lol.

rhoppas · 01-17-2008, 09:30 PM

I agree that the ABS is flaky in snow conditions. All other times I think it is great. The first time I tried to stop on a very snowy street it freaked me out. I've gotten used to it since but I would rather have it off in the snow...

robo (sebring1970) · 01-18-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhoppas

I agree that the ABS is flaky in snow conditions. All other times I think it is great. The first time I tried to stop on a very snowy street it freaked me out. I've gotten used to it since but I would rather have it off in the snow...

I'll go along with that. The brakes have seemed great up until the snow. I have a lot of respect for automotive engineers, but this is a major glitch. The ABS unloads the calipers too soon and too quick in slippery conditions, to the point where the truck is practically coasting with the brake pedal mashed.

colttsi · 01-18-2008, 04:35 AM

I'm with Janster on that one. ABS works great and it saved my ass a couple of times here in Quebec where we get a lot of snow compared to you guys.
There's one thing you gotta keep in mind, when you drive in snow, you need winter tires!!!!! Of course your abs is kicking in when you re in snow with all season tire. I have made a lot of tests and now I have studded nokian hakkapellita 5 under my car and believe me that it is great in snow, abs kicks in only extreme situations and my car runs great in snow.
The ABS was designed so that you can still steer your car while braking so you can avoid obstacles and I too have got a couple of driving classes under mt belt (with Claude Bourbonnais) and when we were in extreme braking situations, let me tell you that no one could avoid the (people) without ABS at the speed we were going (60km/h) and the direction they were giving us at the last second by lighting a board at the end of a course either right or left.
So if you want control of your truck in the snow, get some winter tires and don't blame this on ABS system.
No offense.

piercedtiger · 01-18-2008, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colttsi

I'm with Janster on that one. ABS works great and it saved my ass a couple of times here in Quebec where we get a lot of snow compared to you guys.
There's one thing you gotta keep in mind, when you drive in snow, you need winter tires!!!!! Of course your abs is kicking in when you re in snow with all season tire. I have made a lot of tests and now I have studded nokian hakkapellita 5 under my car and believe me that it is great in snow, abs kicks in only extreme situations and my car runs great in snow.
The ABS was designed so that you can still steer your car while braking so you can avoid obstacles and I too have got a couple of driving classes under mt belt (with Claude Bourbonnais) and when we were in extreme braking situations, let me tell you that no one could avoid the (people) without ABS at the speed we were going (60km/h) and the direction they were giving us at the last second by lighting a board at the end of a course either right or left.
So if you want control of your truck in the snow, get some winter tires and don't blame this on ABS system.
No offense.

No offense, but what do you expect me to run the rest of the year? I didn't say snow was the only problem if you read my post. I said ANY loose surface (or more accurately, anything other than dry asphalt).

I've had the ABS kick in coasting into a gravel apartment parking lot at 10mph or less. To me, that's bullshit. I'm sorry, it shouldn't be freaking out over some mud puddles that dried out leaving a thin layer of dust over hard packed rocks/dirt. Especially not at 10mph!!

I could lock up my mountain bike brakes at that speed with no ill affects.

Snow is just the more obvious one because it's on EVERY road up here several months out of the year compared to a few dirt roads I travel. Or the rare occasion I get to offroad.

Surely you can't be suggesting running winter tires year around just to compensate for a piss poor ABS system?

Janster · 01-18-2008, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercedtiger

I've had the ABS kick in coasting into a gravel apartment parking lot at 10mph or less. To me, that's bullshit. I'm sorry, it shouldn't be freaking out over some mud puddles that dried out leaving a thin layer of dust over hard packed rocks/dirt. Especially not at 10mph!!

I could lock up my mountain bike brakes at that speed with no ill affects.

Snow is just the more obvious one because it's on EVERY road up here several months out of the year compared to a few dirt roads I travel. Or the rare occasion I get to offroad.

If your ABS is kicking in during a gravel parking lot at 10mph or less - then perhaps you're system isn't working properly or you're slamming the brakes on too hard. Why would your wheels lock up going only 10mph with normal braking pressure?

The brakes on my 07 certainly don't do that and I have no reason to push my brakes that hard while going that slow.

When it comes to snow driving - if you've gotta use your brakes that hard (to lock them up), then perhaps you're going TOO FAST for conditions. If you slow down and use more 'engine braking', then you'll coast down slow enough to only lightly use the brakes and the ABS won't kick on. It's very simple.

ABS is for emergency sitiations - where you need to stop quickly. Quick stops or hard usage of the brakes will cause the wheels to lock up. If you're experiencing the ABS kicking on during norma

01-17-2008, 04:49 PM	#1
robo (sebring1970) Member Joined: Dec 2007, #3933 Posts: 38 '04 SR5 2.7L 4WD auto XTRACAB 2004 Automatic 2.7 L in line 4 cyl OEM hood protector, Westin black step bars, ScanGaugeII computer, BAK ProCap bed rails, Line-X Xtra color matched bed liner	you call THAT ABS braking? I had my Tacoma out on some snowy roads for the first time tonight, and I got to feel the ABS brakes. THEY SUCK. They are way too sensitive. I approached a stop sign at 10 mph and I thought the brakes weren't going to stop me in time before I rolled out into the intersection. The brakes work great without the ABS and I guarantee I could stop the truck quicker without them. They lurch, the pedal pulsates about twice a second. I can hear a little motor whine down each time after I hit the brakes with ABS. But the brakes spend more time off than on with the ABS engaged. What gives? Am I missing something or are these the worst ABS brakes I've ever driven, and I've driven a lot of vehicles with ABS?

01-17-2008, 05:16 PM	#3
piercedtiger Northern Alliance: Mod Guru Joined: Oct 2007, #3284 Location: Newark Valley, NY Age: 28 Posts: 3,400 06 TRD OR DC SB 6SPD 2006 Double Cab Manual 4.0 V6 Bestop canopy, hood struts, relocated 7-pin, 3" Toytec spacer/AAL, 285/75 16 Kumho Roadventure ATs, Hi-Lift mounted in bed, BHLM, fog light mod, turn signal mod, locker mod, driver seat mag light mount, step bars, reinforced tailgate, ABS kill switch, black grill surround, bed lights, rock lights...	It's normal for these trucks. The ABS sucks in snow/gravel/dirt/sand.... Basically anything other than dry asphalt. Read this: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tec...html#post45912 __________________ Like when daddy plays with mommy on her "woman week", I've caught you red handed. Cheap/free mods - Tacoma World Forums

01-17-2008, 06:49 PM	#8
piercedtiger Northern Alliance: Mod Guru Joined: Oct 2007, #3284 Location: Newark Valley, NY Age: 28 Posts: 3,400 06 TRD OR DC SB 6SPD 2006 Double Cab Manual 4.0 V6 Bestop canopy, hood struts, relocated 7-pin, 3" Toytec spacer/AAL, 285/75 16 Kumho Roadventure ATs, Hi-Lift mounted in bed, BHLM, fog light mod, turn signal mod, locker mod, driver seat mag light mount, step bars, reinforced tailgate, ABS kill switch, black grill surround, bed lights, rock lights...	Speaking of snow, where do you hail from? As a side note, I turned off the ABS a couple days ago on intermittent snowy roads and the brakes seemed firmer.... As in, they were a little harder to push. Worked perfectly fine, but weren't as "squishy" as when I flipped the switch back off. So that may be an added bonus since I've heard people complain about the brakes being soft/mushy/squishy/whatever. I know it felt like it was taking longer to stop with the ABS enabled again, but it wasn't engaging (no vibrating pedal, etc). __________________ Like when daddy plays with mommy on her "woman week", I've caught you red handed. Cheap/free mods - Tacoma World Forums

01-17-2008, 07:40 PM	#11
Janster Pre Senior Citizen Joined: Mar 2007, #1138 Location: Lancaster, PA Age: 40 Posts: 2,237 2007 4.0L 4x4 TRD Sport Access Cab A 2007 Access Cab Automatic 4.0L Advantage Torza top (tri-fold), Husky floor mats, RuffTuff seat covers, C2C hood struts, Homelink mirror, Ipod2car (80gig Classic/4gig nano), Garmin Nuvi 660, Protecta Bed mat, Pop-n-lock, TSB Springs, Scangauge II, Heated drivers seat, Fumoto drain valve, Aries pushbar, PIAA 540 driving lights	Have you ever been in a serious emergency situation where the ABS saved your azz? You'd think differently about ABS. Lots of engineers & testing were done to make sure it works to save your life. It prevents wheel lock up AND you retain steering control. I wouldn't mess with the ABS - your life could depend on them someday. __________________ Our Homepage http://www.lieblweb.com/ My truck photo gallery http://www.lieblweb.com/cpg/thumbnails.php?album=16

01-17-2008, 07:52 PM	#13
piercedtiger Northern Alliance: Mod Guru Joined: Oct 2007, #3284 Location: Newark Valley, NY Age: 28 Posts: 3,400 06 TRD OR DC SB 6SPD 2006 Double Cab Manual 4.0 V6 Bestop canopy, hood struts, relocated 7-pin, 3" Toytec spacer/AAL, 285/75 16 Kumho Roadventure ATs, Hi-Lift mounted in bed, BHLM, fog light mod, turn signal mod, locker mod, driver seat mag light mount, step bars, reinforced tailgate, ABS kill switch, black grill surround, bed lights, rock lights...	Oh, and for the record my ABS is enabled 99% of the time. It's those snowy roads where I'd rather lock up and slide to a stop than skip like a rock across water where it gets turned off. At least if the brakes lock up I know I'll stop whereas with the ABS I'm not so sure..... __________________ Like when daddy plays with mommy on her "woman week", I've caught you red handed. Cheap/free mods - Tacoma World Forums

01-17-2008, 05:36 PM	#4
concrete jedi Senior Member Joined: Oct 2007, #3142 Location: Rochester N.Y Age: 43 Posts: 2,452 06 Tacoma 4 door indigo blue 2006 Double Cab Manual V-6 4.0 liter Broken and scratched tailgate, cracked rear tail light lens, coffee stain in driver seat.	They do take a little time getting used to, but once you do they're ok. Just in case there is something wrong with them, have them checked out, couldn't cost that much, and knowing that all is well is priceless, not to sound too corny .

01-17-2008, 09:30 PM	#15
rhoppas Northern Alliance Ally Joined: Aug 2007, #2564 Location: Topeka, KS Posts: 741 07 Double Cab V6 TRD Sport Tow 2007 Double Cab Automatic V6 Viper alarm, Hunter4x4 Bull Bar, 6" Pro Comp Off-Road lights, extra set of bed D-rings, Chrome exhaust tip, Metra Ipod/MP3 adapter, Garmin GPS, CarriageWorks grill, Maglite mounted to driver seat	I agree that the ABS is flaky in snow conditions. All other times I think it is great. The first time I tried to stop on a very snowy street it freaked me out. I've gotten used to it since but I would rather have it off in the snow...

01-18-2008, 04:35 AM	#17
colttsi Member Joined: Dec 2007, #3786 Posts: 49	I'm with Janster on that one. ABS works great and it saved my ass a couple of times here in Quebec where we get a lot of snow compared to you guys. There's one thing you gotta keep in mind, when you drive in snow, you need winter tires!!!!! Of course your abs is kicking in when you re in snow with all season tire. I have made a lot of tests and now I have studded nokian hakkapellita 5 under my car and believe me that it is great in snow, abs kicks in only extreme situations and my car runs great in snow. The ABS was designed so that you can still steer your car while braking so you can avoid obstacles and I too have got a couple of driving classes under mt belt (with Claude Bourbonnais) and when we were in extreme braking situations, let me tell you that no one could avoid the (people) without ABS at the speed we were going (60km/h) and the direction they were giving us at the last second by lighting a board at the end of a course either right or left. So if you want control of your truck in the snow, get some winter tires and don't blame this on ABS system. No offense.