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Grey Wolf 21RR Toy Hauler with 2013 Limited 4.0L Taco with extras....

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Old 05-31-2013, 09:34 PM   #21
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I ended up getting the 19RR

19RR Specs:
Dry Hitch Weight 574 lbs.
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 4,142 lbs.
GVWR 7,574 lbs.
Cargo Carrying Capacity 3,432 lbs.
Exterior Length 23' 11"
Exterior Height 10' 5"
Exterior Width 97"

Any more suggestions besides get a bigger truck?
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:58 PM   #22
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Enjoy yourself, don't be in a rush to get anywhere.
If your careful, you'll be fine.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:04 PM   #23
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That is what I am hoping, but people over at the 19RR forums say otherwise.

I even went to a CAT Scale today and loaded the truck up with all the camping gear and me and the wife and weighed both the front and rear axle and gross weight.

Keep in mind this is without the Toy Hauler or the Motorcycle and Spyder because those will be in the Toy Hauler and I dont take ownership of the 19RR until next weekend.

CAT Scale Results:

"steer" (front axle) 2,800 lbs.
"drive axle (rear axle) 2,320 lbs.
Gross: 5,120 lbs.
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:16 AM   #24
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Before the mid 90's, when turbo diesel's hadn't taken off yet, everybody towed more than their max tow limit! Yes, it is nice to have more power than you need, but I've seen tacoma's pull 100+ bales of hay (minimum 8000 lbs with trailer) with little or no problem.
My 97 f350 weighs 9500lbs and has a max towing capacity of 13000 lbs, but I've pulled a 18500lbs backhoe on a 6500lbs trailer, 25000lbs total, double the max tow for my truck. Can it pull it? Of course, just not at freeway speeds safely, because I couldn't slow it down fast enough.
Your loaded trailer will not be over the Tacoma's tow limit, you've prepared your truck with airbags which won't allow the truck to sag, you've bought the proper hitch setup so you can eliminate trailer sway as much as possible, I think you'll be fine, maybe you won't be passing everybody, but I don't think that's what you're looking for. I think you wanted a compromise, a great dd that can tow within reason, and is easy to drive and park etc.
You will just have to go try it out, let us know what YOU think. I hope you're satisfied, if not, the Tacoma has the best resale of any vehicle I've seen.
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:43 AM   #25
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One more STRONG suggestion is a transmission fluid cooler, in ADDITION to the stock cooler. This can, and will save your auto transmission. Also get yourself a temp guage. My scanguage II will read trans temp for me. Its surprising how quickly it can warm up when towing.
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:56 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by FFRNDAN View Post
One more STRONG suggestion is a transmission fluid cooler, in ADDITION to the stock cooler. This can, and will save your auto transmission. Also get yourself a temp guage. My scanguage II will read trans temp for me. Its surprising how quickly it can warm up when towing.
This.
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:15 AM   #27
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I do have the ScanGuage 2 and will add the Trans Temp option.

I didnt think I could add an aditional trans cooler ontop of the transcooler that they added with the tow package.

I think the main issue over at the Toy Hauler forums is I am way over my GVWR. What is everyone's opinion here?

Incase anyone wants to read up on the Toy Hauler Forums:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ore-41027.html
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:31 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaQuest View Post
I think the main issue over at the Toy Hauler forums is I am way over my GVWR. What is everyone's opinion here?
My opinion is if you're going to haul heavy trailers then you should get a proper vehicle, and I suspect that's what they're saying in the toy hauler forums. It's one thing to occasional tow something like that, but to do it 6 times a year for thousands of miles is bad juju and you're not doing the Tacoma any favors. It's like a dude I know wanting to hunt elk with his 30-30... sure you can do it, and take a bunch of little measures to mitigate the glaring deficiency, or you can man up and get the right tool for the job. If you're going to do something do it well and if you want one vehicle to be a jack of all trades then it will do few things really well.

Generally, the heavier the vehicle the more you can exceed GVWR towing. The mid-sized Tacoma is relatively light. You have taken some good measures and that's great, but you're not going to have any guts on the road and you're running the vehicle into the ground much faster. If you're OK with that then go forth and do great things.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:13 PM   #29
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I have the 2013 taco 4x4 double cab v6 with towing package. I bought a 19' 4" Coachmen Apex with a dry weight of 3298 lbs. Electric brakes, weight dist. hitch etc. First trip out I estimated the loaded weight to be 3900-4000 lbs (probably less) everything was fine until we started up the grade on I-8 east of San Diego. It is only a 6% but is sustained for maybe 5 miles. I had the truck in 2nd gear at approx. 3200 rpm and it was straining at 30 MPH. I don't want to do that again, but in California you can hardly go anywhere without encountering a 6% grade on route. Our plans were to travel the western states and stay in mountain locals in US Forest service camps, that's why we thought a 4x4 tacoma and a small light trailer would work. No no and no. I am quite disappointed. I thought I did my homework, and on this forum no less. I read several that said they no trouble towing around 4,400 lbs. in the mountains of CO etc. I believe the "show us what you tow" is a big pissing contest with a lot of BS.

Jim/ San Diego
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:32 PM   #30
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Do able vs do able safely.
Load equalizer, anti sway, electric brakes as minimums.
Steering and the weight of the trailer pushing on deceleration will be a thrill at times.
Wear and tear will be significant on the drivetrain.
That's pushing the envelope for trailer vs vehicle weight. Despite all the countermeasures, I don't think it's a safe combination.
Leave lots of room in front, and go slow. You don't want to put the general public at risk.
That last item is the most important consideration.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:44 PM   #31
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Good call, Jim from SD... I always try to be very honest and conservative when it comes to capabilities, whether it's recommended rig stats for a trail run or something like towing. I don't feel like being responsible (not that I really would be, but you know what I mean) for BS that occurs by promising stuff and just try to give info that will help someone whether they like it or not.

Don't get me wrong, these are great tough trucks and I've been known to push things outside of normal parameters on occasion, but if you actually plan on skirting the envelope on a consistent basis you're sure to be disappointed. I tow 5500-8500lbs about a dozens time a year, usually up mountain grades... but I have 3/4 ton HD that pulls like a dream
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Old 06-03-2013, 03:18 PM   #32
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I have 15ft toy hauler that weighs 5k loaded out with two bikes, gear, water, etc. I've pulled it up 8% grades and in heavy winds etc. Personally, I would NOT pull a larger trailer with the Tacoma. I avg 10mpg and that 8% grade had me in a 2nd gear crawl.

Read the towing bible sticky.. it's pretty spot-on. You'll need tow mirrors, brake controller, WD/sway hitch, air bags, better brake pads etc, tranny cooler, etc.

For a transmission cooler A Hayden 679 will fit in front of the radiator and is the biggest you can fit in there... I highly recommend it. I have my stock unit by-passed and am probably going to plumb it as a power steering cooler.
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Old 06-03-2013, 03:31 PM   #33
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Or get a tundra and tow space shuttles...
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Old 06-03-2013, 03:51 PM   #34
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I have a forest river surveyor and the factory weights don't mean JACK. On a scale it weighs 7400lbs (with nothing in it!), but the manufacturer says max GVW is 6900. (I tow this trailer with my Yukon XL 8200lb factory tow rating).You need to look at trailers with a MAX GVW of 5k that leaves you another 1000lbs roughly for yourself, gear, and gas.

I would highly NOT recommend you tow with this trailer. It will pull it, but it can not stop it effectively (Even with a trailer brake). or keep it from swaying.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:34 AM   #35
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I was in a similar situation. We ended up buying a 25' TT last fall with a dry weight of 4000lb. After much thought over the winter I traded the Tacoma in for an F150 (like you I considered getting rid of the Tacoma as "not an option"). Even with the 5.0L 365hp V8, you can feel that trailer back there on moderate grades and it has to work. Dry weight is a joke, we've loaded 100's of pounds of "essentials" into that trailer without even trying, not to mention food, kid's gear, etc. I loved my Tacoma, but a full size truck is needed here, and even then it isn't hard to bump into a half-ton's max payload.
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:30 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManMan View Post
I have 15ft toy hauler that weighs 5k loaded out with two bikes, gear, water, etc. I've pulled it up 8% grades and in heavy winds etc. Personally, I would NOT pull a larger trailer with the Tacoma. I avg 10mpg and that 8% grade had me in a 2nd gear crawl.

Read the towing bible sticky.. it's pretty spot-on. You'll need tow mirrors, brake controller, WD/sway hitch, air bags, better brake pads etc, tranny cooler, etc.

For a transmission cooler A Hayden 679 will fit in front of the radiator and is the biggest you can fit in there... I highly recommend it. I have my stock unit by-passed and am probably going to plumb it as a power steering cooler.
Can you take some photos of the cooler. I have the tow package which already added a little added trans cooler to the bottom right side infront of the radiator.

So if I get the 679 (which Amazon says wont fit my truck - 2013 taco - http://www.amazon.com/Hayden-Automot...mission+Cooler ) where does it go? Do I remove the old added trans cooler and put the new one there? Do I place the new cooler on the other side of the radiator (left side).....

Or should I just get a fan and add it to the back of the tow package transmission cooler (it dosent have one now) or add a fan to the front of the radiator pushing air through the radiator to help the fan behind the radiator which pulls air through the radiator?

Photos would be helpfull to get an idea. I want to make "this" truck "AS" capable of towing my 19RR loaded as I can.
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Grey Wolf 21RR Toy Hauler with 2013 Limited 4.0L Taco with extras....-dsc_6338.jpg   Grey Wolf 21RR Toy Hauler with 2013 Limited 4.0L Taco with extras....-dsc_6540.jpg  
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:46 AM   #37
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Fans become a restriction at speed... And transmissions don't overheat at idle. So no, a fan is worthless. That's why everyone is recommending a bigger cooler.

Yes, a 679 will fit on the RH (passenger) side. Don't believe me or Amazon... Get a tape measure and make sure yourself. I can't get pictures up any time soon. But I will try later.

Look at my sig for what I've done and recommend... Read the towing bible sticky! I'd you are towing hills much you'll want a supercharger and trans body upgrade. But you'd be better off with a bigger truck. This coming from a guy who loves his Taco but is looking at upgrading
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:02 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManMan View Post
Fans become a restriction at speed... And transmissions don't overheat at idle. So no, a fan is worthless. That's why everyone is recommending a bigger cooler.

Yes, a 679 will fit on the RH (passenger) side. Don't believe me or Amazon... Get a tape measure and make sure yourself. I can't get pictures up any time soon. But I will try later.

Look at my sig for what I've done and recommend... Read the towing bible sticky! I'd you are towing hills much you'll want a supercharger and trans body upgrade. But you'd be better off with a bigger truck. This coming from a guy who loves his Taco but is looking at upgrading
*terrible australian accent* Thats not a trans coolah...



That's a trans coolah... (40kGVW TruCool unit)
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:32 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reefisher View Post
I have the 2013 taco 4x4 double cab v6 with towing package. I bought a 19' 4" Coachmen Apex with a dry weight of 3298 lbs. Electric brakes, weight dist. hitch etc. First trip out I estimated the loaded weight to be 3900-4000 lbs (probably less) everything was fine until we started up the grade on I-8 east of San Diego. It is only a 6% but is sustained for maybe 5 miles. I had the truck in 2nd gear at approx. 3200 rpm and it was straining at 30 MPH. I don't want to do that again, but in California you can hardly go anywhere without encountering a 6% grade on route. Our plans were to travel the western states and stay in mountain locals in US Forest service camps, that's why we thought a 4x4 tacoma and a small light trailer would work. No no and no. I am quite disappointed. I thought I did my homework, and on this forum no less. I read several that said they no trouble towing around 4,400 lbs. in the mountains of CO etc. I believe the "show us what you tow" is a big pissing contest with a lot of BS.

Jim/ San Diego
Agreed. Alot of guys like that on here. The Tacoma is a good truck, but for the right person, some people are really overdoing it and kidding themselves when they think they're in Tundra territory. And to OP, I wouldnt get that unit, as mentioned, unless you're only going 30 miles tops, its too big for the truck. And thats coming from a guy with at least 50k miles of towing experience of every load type.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:48 PM   #40
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Why couldn't you put the bike in the bed of the truck, and get a smaller trailer?
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