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87 supra TT engine build…inputs and advice please!!

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Old 03-15-2014, 05:42 PM   #1
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87 supra TT engine build…inputs and advice please!!

I was at the junk yard looking for a sensor for my 87 toyota pickup 22RE. I have always wanted to do this engine swap from 22RE to a TT supra engine. I came across the name on the car 87 toyota supra. looking for something else and saw the block w/ crank and the head. just sitting there. I had to get it. I am getting it sent to a machine shop to clean it up spotless. then the build begins.. Please help me out with suggestions on how about to start up this adventure. Preciate the replies
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:22 PM   #3
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yeah 7M GTE… is it even possible to twin turbo that motor.. also want to fuel inject it
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k5yota11 View Post
I was at the junk yard looking for a sensor for my 87 toyota pickup 22RE. I have always wanted to do this engine swap from 22RE to a TT supra engine. I came across the name on the car 87 toyota supra. looking for something else and saw the block w/ crank and the head. just sitting there. I had to get it. I am getting it sent to a machine shop to clean it up spotless. then the build begins.. Please help me out with suggestions on how about to start up this adventure. Preciate the replies
You have an adventure ahead of you! you will need to acquire an ecu either a stand alone or the stock ecu to 7M GTE but I highly doubt you will find a stock ecu but you will need to get everything you need. Also a transmission to run it a new axle since your stock one wont work. Theres alot to acquire and laying out everything you need is always the first step I cant want to see it complete!
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Old 03-15-2014, 10:14 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by TripleThreat View Post
You have an adventure ahead of you! you will need to acquire an ecu either a stand alone or the stock ecu to 7M GTE but I highly doubt you will find a stock ecu but you will need to get everything you need. Also a transmission to run it a new axle since your stock one wont work. Theres alot to acquire and laying out everything you need is always the first step I cant want to see it complete!
its definitely going to be a work in project. I am ordering the service manual as we speak unless one of you gents happens to have one I am inquiring about. any suggestions on step by step is greatly appreciated it.
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:20 PM   #7
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so I am looking for a good machine shop to get my engine over to. I honestly have researched and cannot get a solid answer on what I need to actually tell the machinist in regards to the work I want done on my block, crank, and head. I don't want to go in there and get ripped off. anyone got any advice?

BTW I am looking to get around 500+HP out of this engine
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:32 PM   #8
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the 7mgte can do well with just a bigger turbo than stock, like mentioned you need the engine wiring and ecu. they are rare to find, I attempted to place one in a 92 toyota truck and couldn't complete the swap with the auto tranny electronics, where it manual i think i would have finished it. it was a tight fit with mine i think on your 87 it would be abit harder. IMO you would have more fun and be done faster turbo'ing your 22re
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Old 03-16-2014, 09:15 AM   #9
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Being an owner of 2 Supras in the past, I will sudjest a couple things....
Do NOT think of putting in a 7M-GTE engine. They were a great engine given the HP/torque of it's time, but blown head gaskets are their most popular feature. They are a single turbo engine that put out (roughly) 240hp 1 CT24 turbo. It seems like a lot, but keep in mind the MKIII Supra weighs as much as a minivan loaded with kids.
It can be twinned, but the cost (IMO) is far too great given what little power you're going to get out of it as the 7M is not a true TT engine.
If you're dead set on a TT motor, the 1JZ-GTE is your best bet. It is a true TT engine running twin CT12s putting out around 280hp, and like it's later big brother, the 2JZ-GTE, is far more reliable (to an extent) then the 7M-GTE. Parts are harder to come by as it was never introduced to the North American market, but they are out there. Now, a lot of Supra owners (MKIII and MKIV) use the head off the 2JZ and the bottom end of the 1JZ to create the 1.5JZ (cheezy as fuck, but at least they call it something), some say they had great success, others claim to have no change. I would say fine tuning was the factor in that one. Also, parts like injectors can be interchangeable from the 1JZ/2JZ, as well as fuel rails and FFIM with very minor work needed.

Regardless, the JZ family of engines are what you're going to want, doesn't matter how much of a price difference there is, take my word for it, you're going to have downtime with a 7M (BHG) vs. upfront cost of a 1JZ. With import engines, parts are becoming more readily available then ever, and you can always troll Supraforums.com in the MKIII 1JZ section for advice/parts.

Edit: Nvm, you've already got the engine.... Well, you're going to want a new HG off the hop, HKS 1.2mm (I believe was the most common one), new ARP head studs/bolts. You never said what transmission you were going to use, I would recommend getting your hands on an R154 as it was what came matched to the 7M, and retardedly reliable. There are a lot of MKIV owners that N/A-T their engines and use the R154 with a 1JZ bellhousing b/c of it's ability to handle power. As far as engine #'s and specs for attaining 500hp, you can do that on stock specs, tuning and turbo size are your 2 major factors. I'm not 100% sure on what your plans are for management, I've seen some decent numbers from guys using the Apex'i S-AFC & AVC-R for light tuning, though I would think an actual stand alone (AEM?) would be the better route
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Old 03-16-2014, 04:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
Being an owner of 2 Supras in the past, I will sudjest a couple things....
Do NOT think of putting in a 7M-GTE engine. They were a great engine given the HP/torque of it's time, but blown head gaskets are their most popular feature. They are a single turbo engine that put out (roughly) 240hp 1 CT24 turbo. It seems like a lot, but keep in mind the MKIII Supra weighs as much as a minivan loaded with kids.
It can be twinned, but the cost (IMO) is far too great given what little power you're going to get out of it as the 7M is not a true TT engine.
If you're dead set on a TT motor, the 1JZ-GTE is your best bet. It is a true TT engine running twin CT12s putting out around 280hp, and like it's later big brother, the 2JZ-GTE, is far more reliable (to an extent) then the 7M-GTE. Parts are harder to come by as it was never introduced to the North American market, but they are out there. Now, a lot of Supra owners (MKIII and MKIV) use the head off the 2JZ and the bottom end of the 1JZ to create the 1.5JZ (cheezy as fuck, but at least they call it something), some say they had great success, others claim to have no change. I would say fine tuning was the factor in that one. Also, parts like injectors can be interchangeable from the 1JZ/2JZ, as well as fuel rails and FFIM with very minor work needed.

Regardless, the JZ family of engines are what you're going to want, doesn't matter how much of a price difference there is, take my word for it, you're going to have downtime with a 7M (BHG) vs. upfront cost of a 1JZ. With import engines, parts are becoming more readily available then ever, and you can always troll Supraforums.com in the MKIII 1JZ section for advice/parts.

Edit: Nvm, you've already got the engine.... Well, you're going to want a new HG off the hop, HKS 1.2mm (I believe was the most common one), new ARP head studs/bolts. You never said what transmission you were going to use, I would recommend getting your hands on an R154 as it was what came matched to the 7M, and retardedly reliable. There are a lot of MKIV owners that N/A-T their engines and use the R154 with a 1JZ bellhousing b/c of it's ability to handle power. As far as engine #'s and specs for attaining 500hp, you can do that on stock specs, tuning and turbo size are your 2 major factors. I'm not 100% sure on what your plans are for management, I've seen some decent numbers from guys using the Apex'i S-AFC & AVC-R for light tuning, though I would think an actual stand alone (AEM?) would be the better route

Fahrenheit- yeah all I have is the block crank and head.. I am taking them to the machine shop this coming up week.. Is there anything I should be telling this guy besides the type of engine it is? And on another note should/could I get a better crank? I suppose I would settle for a mean 400Hp as long as it was reliable.


SDSam- how did you manage to keep your 4 wheel drive? I have a stick 87 Toyota.. I would love a beast 6 speed supra tranny but I wouldn't know the first thing about making that work with a transfer case besides a bell housing adaptor for transmission to engine as in keeping my same transmission just beefing it up
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Old 03-16-2014, 04:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k5yota11 View Post
SDSam- how did you manage to keep your 4 wheel drive? I have a stick 87 Toyota.. I would love a beast 6 speed supra tranny but I wouldn't know the first thing about making that work with a transfer case besides a bell housing adaptor
I made my own oil pan and pick up from the two oil pans and the motor only pushed the tranny back about one inch and just needed that much extended/shortened on the drive shafts. bellhousings where interchangable in my case.

like mentioned the machine shop just needs to do a good job on prepping the parts for you maybe inquire about the valve seating make sure they do a 3 angle seating. as most dont (IMO)

Performance rebuild kit and parts should be up to you to find the best parts you want to use as opposed the the machine shop.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
Being an owner of 2 Supras in the past, I will sudjest a couple things....
Do NOT think of putting in a 7M-GTE engine. They were a great engine given the HP/torque of it's time, but blown head gaskets are their most popular feature. They are a single turbo engine that put out (roughly) 240hp 1 CT24 turbo. It seems like a lot, but keep in mind the MKIII Supra weighs as much as a minivan loaded with kids.
It can be twinned, but the cost (IMO) is far too great given what little power you're going to get out of it as the 7M is not a true TT engine.
If you're dead set on a TT motor, the 1JZ-GTE is your best bet. It is a true TT engine running twin CT12s putting out around 280hp, and like it's later big brother, the 2JZ-GTE, is far more reliable (to an extent) then the 7M-GTE. Parts are harder to come by as it was never introduced to the North American market, but they are out there. Now, a lot of Supra owners (MKIII and MKIV) use the head off the 2JZ and the bottom end of the 1JZ to create the 1.5JZ (cheezy as fuck, but at least they call it something), some say they had great success, others claim to have no change. I would say fine tuning was the factor in that one. Also, parts like injectors can be interchangeable from the 1JZ/2JZ, as well as fuel rails and FFIM with very minor work needed.

Regardless, the JZ family of engines are what you're going to want, doesn't matter how much of a price difference there is, take my word for it, you're going to have downtime with a 7M (BHG) vs. upfront cost of a 1JZ. With import engines, parts are becoming more readily available then ever, and you can always troll Supraforums.com in the MKIII 1JZ section for advice/parts.

Edit: Nvm, you've already got the engine.... Well, you're going to want a new HG off the hop, HKS 1.2mm (I believe was the most common one), new ARP head studs/bolts. You never said what transmission you were going to use, I would recommend getting your hands on an R154 as it was what came matched to the 7M, and retardedly reliable. There are a lot of MKIV owners that N/A-T their engines and use the R154 with a 1JZ bellhousing b/c of it's ability to handle power. As far as engine #'s and specs for attaining 500hp, you can do that on stock specs, tuning and turbo size are your 2 major factors. I'm not 100% sure on what your plans are for management, I've seen some decent numbers from guys using the Apex'i S-AFC & AVC-R for light tuning, though I would think an actual stand alone (AEM?) would be the better route
I thought the head gaskets was because incorrect torque specs. When torqued correctly, no issues

OP, if you want a donor car, the 7m engine was used in the Toyota Cressida. Not an easy car to find but not hard either. And usually much cheaper than a Supra . If you are lucky, you can find one with a manual. Only made for custom orders so very rare.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StAndrew View Post
I thought the head gaskets was because incorrect torque specs. When torqued correctly, no issues

OP, if you want a donor car, the 7m engine was used in the Toyota Cressida. Not an easy car to find but not hard either. And usually much cheaper than a Supra . If you are lucky, you can find one with a manual. Only made for custom orders so very rare.
The headgasket issue may, or may not have, been an issue directly from the factory, but in it's 7 year run, surely Toyota would have corrected the issue of mistorqued head studs. The stereotype that follows the 7m engines, and is it's only real issue, is it's headgaskets, outside of that it is a strong engine given the era it was built in and it's competition at that time. I honestly see no reason to look into an aftermarket crank, the factory bottom end is very much capable to handle 500hp. Rods/pistons, thats up to you really, you can stay within factory specs and still make great HP. I would recommend a port/polish job on the head though. And buy yourself some IC hardpipes and a decent BOV.
What size turbo were you thinking of getting?
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Old 03-16-2014, 09:25 PM   #14
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There is a copper head gasket that is used mostly for higher than stock boost pressure. And the ARP head studs are a given.
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Old 03-16-2014, 11:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
The headgasket issue may, or may not have, been an issue directly from the factory, but in it's 7 year run, surely Toyota would have corrected the issue of mistorqued head studs. The stereotype that follows the 7m engines, and is it's only real issue, is it's headgaskets, outside of that it is a strong engine given the era it was built in and it's competition at that time. I honestly see no reason to look into an aftermarket crank, the factory bottom end is very much capable to handle 500hp. Rods/pistons, thats up to you really, you can stay within factory specs and still make great HP. I would recommend a port/polish job on the head though. And buy yourself some IC hardpipes and a decent BOV.
What size turbo were you thinking of getting?

I appreciate the advice once again.. Just need to be pointed in the right direction that's all..

Tore down the head and block today.. Taking it to the machine shop tomorrow or the next day..


Also I am not sure which turbo to get or even injectors.. 550-660cc is what I was thinking for injectors but honestly I have no idea.. I have been reading on them for the past couple days when I have free time..
http://www.suprastore.com/stivimk3tu7m.html <<< that is where I got my information on the turbo
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Old 03-16-2014, 11:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDSam View Post
There is a copper head gasket that is used mostly for higher than stock boost pressure. And the ARP head studs are a given.

Definitely some useful information.. Thanks
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:42 PM   #17
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I kind of wish 7MPower.com was still up, it would have been perfect for you to look at all the 400+hp MKIII Supras and give you the bang on builds for a reliable 7M
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:56 PM   #18
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i owned a 7mgte in a 87 supra.

honestly, i wouldn't bother, a 2jz would be a better investment.

that said it is do able.

only one twin turbo kit was made for the 7m and it was by HKS and also insanely expensive. You'd be better off with a single anyways.

if you get a metal HG and get the block and head decked for it with new ARP studs and put an extra quart of oil in it to make sure no rod bearings die prematurely. Its a nice motor. But unlike most toyota motors you MUST keep up on good regual maintenance. If you do not...BOOM.

you can easily get 350-400hp out of it though and keep it fairly reliable.

fitting it in the tacoma is gonna be a chore..it will fit though. You'll need to pick up a r151 tranny to bolt to it though if you want it to have 4wd still.


for turbo, just upgrade the CT26 one if you on a budget. Get a 57 trim one from Driftmotion.com.

THen add some 550cc injector and a lexus v8 AFM mod and a small piggy back computer. 3'' exhaust with a new downpipe and manual boost controller with a AFPR and fuel pump and your already at 350hp.


That said...im going to give you some advice that i learned while building my supra..

Don't fuck with it too much. Just get it in the truck first. Don't upgrade the turbo or exhaust or anthing...other then the HG, new water pump, oil pump, bearings, main bolts, belts, ect that kind of stuff. Its gonna be a PITA to get it in there in the first place.

Just get it in and running...THEN you should start upping the boost and slowing adding the mods that make you the more power.

cause, lets be honest, the 250hp 250 torque that it makes stockish is gonna make the truck feel like a drag truck after the 22re.

But i say this cause you will end up spending WAY more money then you should and not get to enjoy it.

Just a thought.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdawg View Post
i owned a 7mgte in a 87 supra.

honestly, i wouldn't bother, a 2jz would be a better investment.

that said it is do able.

only one twin turbo kit was made for the 7m and it was by HKS and also insanely expensive. You'd be better off with a single anyways.

if you get a metal HG and get the block and head decked for it with new ARP studs and put an extra quart of oil in it to make sure no rod bearings die prematurely. Its a nice motor. But unlike most toyota motors you MUST keep up on good regual maintenance. If you do not...BOOM.

you can easily get 350-400hp out of it though and keep it fairly reliable.

fitting it in the tacoma is gonna be a chore..it will fit though. You'll need to pick up a r151 tranny to bolt to it though if you want it to have 4wd still.


for turbo, just upgrade the CT26 one if you on a budget. Get a 57 trim one from Driftmotion.com.
C
THen add some 550cc injector and a lexus v8 AFM mod and a small piggy back computer. 3'' exhaust with a new downpipe and manual boost controller with a AFPR and fuel pump and your already at 350hp.


That said...im going to give you some advice that i learned while building my supra..

Don't fuck with it too much. Just get it in the truck first. Don't upgrade the turbo or exhaust or anthing...other then the HG, new water pump, oil pump, bearings, main bolts, belts, ect that kind of stuff. Its gonna be a PITA to get it in there in the first placer.

Just get it in and running...THEN you should start upping the boost and slowing adding the mods that make you the more power.

cause, lets be honest, the 250hp 250 torque that it makes stockish is gonna make the truck feel like a drag truck after the 22re.

But i say this cause you will end up spending WAY more money then you should and not get to enjoy it.

Just a thought.

Blackdawg- thanks for the thoughts. Honestly I don't me having to spend to much to get it running. When I say "to much" I mean not as much as if I were going all out.. All I have is the block crank and head.. Going to the machine shop tomorrow with it all..

I suppose I should get the stuff machined assemble it.. And next get some injectors? Not quite sure after the block, crank and head are together. I just don't wanna buy something premature and have to wait for more money to get the part that needs to go before it.. Obviously this is a learning experience for me.. I appreciate the info and advice once again
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k5yota11 View Post
Blackdawg- thanks for the thoughts. Honestly I don't me having to spend to much to get it running. When I say "to much" I mean not as much as if I were going all out.. All I have is the block crank and head.. Going to the machine shop tomorrow with it all..

I suppose I should get the stuff machined assemble it.. And next get some injectors? Not quite sure after the block, crank and head are together. I just don't wanna buy something premature and have to wait for more money to get the part that needs to go before it.. Obviously this is a learning experience for me.. I appreciate the info and advice once again

if you only have the block head and crank...you have a TON of work ahead of you and also a ton of money to get a full blow motor up and running again...

i guess 2k in just parts.
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