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Old 09-27-2007, 10:58 AM   #21
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lol yeah some guys get caught up in it... i do think toyota could produce one heck of a diesel... like i said my current fav diesel is a cummins... chevy trucks arent what they used to be
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Old 09-27-2007, 11:33 AM   #22
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Well said buddy.. the truth about the whole matter is Toyota needs to work on making a solid half ton before they go and and try to build a 1 ton truck. Everyone just calm down!! Oh and just for the record, there is no freakin way that toyota has developed a motor that is 5 to 10 times more powerful than the diesels on the market now. Absolutely impossible!!! Cummins, and International make the pickup truck motors these days fellas!! sorry..

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Originally Posted by Mudbug View Post
Ok...some of you people..

That comment about toyota and caterpillar crushing the american diesels? Umm yeah detroit/cummins/international/caterpillar....they ALL make damn good diesel stop being such a freakin *(%$% if you like your toyota good thats why you own it. Why do you have to go pick on the guy with a dodge or a ford or a chevy? If he likes his truck awesome. If you like your truck awesome. Stop being so..........

....breathe just breathe.....
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Old 09-27-2007, 03:48 PM   #23
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:24 PM   #24
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Badass...so is that a modern day version of the smaller version of the cummins 4B?
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Old 10-01-2007, 03:34 AM   #25
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Yeah, I have seen the one on Toyota Diesel Forums for sale, and the Cummins Tacoma looks awesome - but I think I would rather have one that came from the manufacturer with a warranty.

There is actually a guy here in Universal City, TX that does gas to diesel conversions on Toyotas (www.dieseltoyz.com). He seems to do really good work. My problem is that I travel nationwide. Who is going to replace my busted up oil pan when I hit a boulder in the canyons of Colorado or have a have a fan and radiator for when a bird goes kamikaze on me in North Carolina? I know they aren't typical things, but both have happened to me.

I need an engine with mass production parts and technicians available in the United States. That is why I am holding out for a manufacturer to bring a 4-5 cylinder turbo diesel to a pickup in the states. I just hope that Toyota steps up their game.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:41 AM   #26
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i've heard of the conversions using the liberty diesel... tons of parts and service around for them...just pull your toy in the dodge/jeep dealer and tell them what you need LOL
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:48 AM   #27
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I had an 05' Liberty with the 2.8L VM Motori Turbo-Diesel. The engine was friggin' awesome! Unfortunately it is mated to the same tranny they use for the Hemi engines. The ECU throws all kinds of problems in the mix. I had huge torque converter issues with that thing. Too bad - I really liked it. It hauled anything, got great gas mileage, and had plenty of power.

I wanted to put a Euro-Spec 5 speed manual in it, but it would have been VERY costly (>$8000). Needless to say, I wasn't going to pay for that, or have my primary vehicle down that long. So I deep sixed it, and now I have my Tacoma.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:32 PM   #28
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yeah but since it uses the same tranny as the hemi couldnt you put the US spec manual that comes in hemi rams in it? or advance adapters will make anything...for the money
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:38 PM   #29
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all i'm saying is instead of everyone sitting around whining about no toyota's with a diesel...make one...they make the motors.. they make the trucks.... you just have to put them together lol...there are a ton of good small diesels out there....forklifts...generators (4bt cummins anyone) and alot of those use a bolt pattern that matches a truck somewhere....
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:18 PM   #30
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its taken toyota far too long to make a diesel truck. heck they tow their race cars with a duramax....go GM!!
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:19 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldytaco05 View Post
hmmm is it better for the environment and money saving item?
Diesels are much better than they used to be but they still pollute more in terms of smog-producing gases than gasoline cars: nitrous oxide.

Diesel also puts out more carbon emissions (CO2) per gallon burned but they get better gas mileage so it offsets to their advantage. Biodiesel doesn't solve the nitrous oxide problem but it cuts carbon emissions greatly.

I've read that by 2010 Diesels are going to be held to the same emission standards as gasoline cars which should encourage even cleaner diesels. There is a serious downside to biofuel though: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ergy.indonesia
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Old 10-03-2007, 06:08 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robrjohnson View Post
Diesels are much better than they used to be but they still pollute more in terms of smog-producing gases than gasoline cars: nitrous oxide.

Diesel also puts out more carbon emissions (CO2) per gallon burned but they get better gas mileage so it offsets to their advantage. Biodiesel doesn't solve the nitrous oxide problem but it cuts carbon emissions greatly.

I've read that by 2010 Diesels are going to be held to the same emission standards as gasoline cars which should encourage even cleaner diesels. There is a serious downside to biofuel though: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ergy.indonesia
This is partly true. Older diesels did put out more NOX than gasoline engines, but the newer (next generation) diesels have NOX traps or use urea injection to lower their NOX emissions down to a gasoline vehicles. All of the diesel vehicles (specifically MB, VW, Nissan, Honda, and Hyundai) that are coming out now (2008+) will have to meet the new Tier 2 Bin 5 emissions requirements for 2010. Otherwise these diesels would have to be reengineered in 2 years (a big no-no in automaking).

As for the article about Indonesia, that is an extreme case. In the US we have the ability to produce at least 35% of our diesel as bio-diesel using waste oil from food processing (both animal and plant) without making major changes to the current economic structure. That is 35% less imported petroleum used for diesel. THAT'S HUGE!

When I had diesels, I bought bio-diesel from places that made the fuel from rape seed oil or soy bean oil. It was a by product of the plant being processed as a food.
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:52 AM   #33
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i made the bio using a 40 gallon plastic drum...a hand drill with a heater blower fan out of a chevy truck...and a garden hose....and toyota hasnt waited top long to build a diesel...i had an 81 diesel toyota US spec... and they still make diesels...every where else...
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Old 10-03-2007, 10:58 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007Tacoma View Post
This is partly true. Older diesels did put out more NOX than gasoline engines, but the newer (next generation) diesels have NOX traps or use urea injection to lower their NOX emissions down to a gasoline vehicles. All of the diesel vehicles (specifically MB, VW, Nissan, Honda, and Hyundai) that are coming out now (2008+) will have to meet the new Tier 2 Bin 5 emissions requirements for 2010. Otherwise these diesels would have to be reengineered in 2 years (a big no-no in automaking).

As for the article about Indonesia, that is an extreme case. In the US we have the ability to produce at least 35% of our diesel as bio-diesel using waste oil from food processing (both animal and plant) without making major changes to the current economic structure. That is 35% less imported petroleum used for diesel. THAT'S HUGE!

When I had diesels, I bought bio-diesel from places that made the fuel from rape seed oil or soy bean oil. It was a by product of the plant being processed as a food.
There's no free lunch. The environmental disaster story above is the extreme but that's mostly because the demand is still relatively low. Palm oil has one of the largest biodiesel yields of any of the crop sources yielding about 650 gallons per acre (about 15x the yield of soybeans and 5x the yield of rapeseed). The more oil you can get out of an acre, the more profitable you'll be. That's why they're clearcutting and planting them as fast as they can. Even if you could plant palms for palm oil in the United States (which you can't because it won't grow everywhere) it would take a landmass equal to 1/5 of the entire country to offset the US gasoline useage. Try substituting corn or soybeans and the land mass required is absurd (not to mention the water requirements, fertilizer, runnoff generated). If biodiesel takes off (because everyone wants it) the environmental damage will be astronomical and the price fluctuations will be affected by things like drought. In the short term, we can make due with what is available. In the long term, those cheap sources will eventually dry up as competition for fuel demands rises (why sell a gallon of oil to a restaraunt if you can get twice the price as fuel). In countries where the economy is depressed and you can grow the fuel (rainforest countries), there will be a lot of incentive to clearcut and plant palms for biofuel.

http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0425-oil_palm.html
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Old 10-03-2007, 03:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robrjohnson View Post
There's no free lunch. The environmental disaster story above is the extreme but that's mostly because the demand is still relatively low. Palm oil has one of the largest biodiesel yields of any of the crop sources yielding about 650 gallons per acre (about 15x the yield of soybeans and 5x the yield of rapeseed). The more oil you can get out of an acre, the more profitable you'll be. That's why they're clearcutting and planting them as fast as they can. Even if you could plant palms for palm oil in the United States (which you can't because it won't grow everywhere) it would take a landmass equal to 1/5 of the entire country to offset the US gasoline useage. Try substituting corn or soybeans and the land mass required is absurd (not to mention the water requirements, fertilizer, runnoff generated). If biodiesel takes off (because everyone wants it) the environmental damage will be astronomical and the price fluctuations will be affected by things like drought. In the short term, we can make due with what is available. In the long term, those cheap sources will eventually dry up as competition for fuel demands rises (why sell a gallon of oil to a restaraunt if you can get twice the price as fuel). In countries where the economy is depressed and you can grow the fuel (rainforest countries), there will be a lot of incentive to clearcut and plant palms for biofuel.

http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0425-oil_palm.html
Good article. Very eye opening.

The following talks about sustainable Bio_Fuel production.
I like this approach much better.

Oil-palm plantations should be encouraged on existing agricultural lands and areas that have been heavily degraded and deforested.


Not sure how realistic that is,but as a consumer we do have the power to push for products that are produced in environmentally friendly methods.
I will be trying to obtain Bio-Diesel produced from waste oil to power my newly acquired BJ70 LandCruiser.
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:07 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robrjohnson View Post
There's no free lunch. The environmental disaster story above is the extreme but that's mostly because the demand is still relatively low. Palm oil has one of the largest biodiesel yields of any of the crop sources yielding about 650 gallons per acre (about 15x the yield of soybeans and 5x the yield of rapeseed). The more oil you can get out of an acre, the more profitable you'll be. That's why they're clearcutting and planting them as fast as they can. Even if you could plant palms for palm oil in the United States (which you can't because it won't grow everywhere) it would take a landmass equal to 1/5 of the entire country to offset the US gasoline useage. Try substituting corn or soybeans and the land mass required is absurd (not to mention the water requirements, fertilizer, runnoff generated). If biodiesel takes off (because everyone wants it) the environmental damage will be astronomical and the price fluctuations will be affected by things like drought. In the short term, we can make due with what is available. In the long term, those cheap sources will eventually dry up as competition for fuel demands rises (why sell a gallon of oil to a restaraunt if you can get twice the price as fuel). In countries where the economy is depressed and you can grow the fuel (rainforest countries), there will be a lot of incentive to clearcut and plant palms for biofuel.

http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0425-oil_palm.html
You are looking at palm oil as an "end -all-be-all" solution. I don't think that bio-diesel is going to cut-it for the masses. It just works for me. I still think that other means of fuel are necessary. We can't all go to hydrogen or all go electric or all go bio-diesel. It just won't work. We would have the same economic and environmental impact issues as oil refining, but in different ways.

If I was an in-town driver, I would most likely own a hybrid or use public transit. Hybrids see their largest fuel economy gains over other vehicles in stop and go traffic. Unfortunately I spend most of my time on the highway. That is where you see the largest advantage in a diesel vehicle when it comes to fuel economy.

Besides, the big thing that I got out of the first article was that they were using the clear cutting as an excuse to get the lumber and sell it. Many people were upset that this was such a loop hole in the system. These companies don't care what they make from the palm oil. They care more about the profits from the lumber.

From an economic and environmental viewpoint, my opinion is there are many solutions to the world transportation issues:

1) Less energy should be spent moving one person. Car pooling, public transit, and more efficient vehicles would be the biggest and first step.

2) More diverse energy supplies. Bio-Diesel isn't an end-all-be-all solution, but we barely utilize it here in the States. Coal, hydrogen, ethanol, hydrocarbons, natural gas, bio-diesel, petroleum, and many others need to be explored with a more open eye.

3) More efficient engines/motors need to be produced. Advances in technology are bringing this. Of my highest interests: direct injection (VW), advanced automatic transmissions (Toyota), electronic fuel control and pressurization (Mercedes Benz and Audi), CGI engine blocks (Honda, Dodge, and others), and cylinder managemet (Chrysler, GM, Catepillar, etc...)

Did you know that Toyota 3.5L V6 in the Camry, Avalon, Highlander, and RAV4 can get up to 34 MPG and still produce 268 HP!!! Why can't I have that engine as an option in my Tacoma? - Torque. It doesn't produce as much as the 4.0L, but it is still more than my 2.7L. I want a 3.5L!

What I like about bio-diesel and diesel engines: They (on whole) are simpler than gasoline engines. They are more efficient and produce more torque. In a pinch (disaster situation), you can make your own fuel without dealing with extremely dangerous chemicals in mass quantities.

I am not looking for diesel engines as "THE" transportation solution. I just want the option of having one. Right now, the rest of the world has that option, and here in the "great" United States - I do not.
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:57 AM   #37
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Little bit of a thread hijack but.....speaking of diesels.

How cool are these 2.0-litre D-4D diesel RAV4s ?
Click the pic to read more.
Bob
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:04 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007Tacoma View Post
You are looking at palm oil as an "end -all-be-all" solution. I don't think that bio-diesel is going to cut-it for the masses. It just works for me. I still think that other means of fuel are necessary. We can't all go to hydrogen or all go electric or all go bio-diesel. It just won't work. We would have the same economic and environmental impact issues as oil refining, but in different ways.

If I was an in-town driver, I would most likely own a hybrid or use public transit. Hybrids see their largest fuel economy gains over other vehicles in stop and go traffic. Unfortunately I spend most of my time on the highway. That is where you see the largest advantage in a diesel vehicle when it comes to fuel economy.

Besides, the big thing that I got out of the first article was that they were using the clear cutting as an excuse to get the lumber and sell it. Many people were upset that this was such a loop hole in the system. These companies don't care what they make from the palm oil. They care more about the profits from the lumber.

From an economic and environmental viewpoint, my opinion is there are many solutions to the world transportation issues:

1) Less energy should be spent moving one person. Car pooling, public transit, and more efficient vehicles would be the biggest and first step.

2) More diverse energy supplies. Bio-Diesel isn't an end-all-be-all solution, but we barely utilize it here in the States. Coal, hydrogen, ethanol, hydrocarbons, natural gas, bio-diesel, petroleum, and many others need to be explored with a more open eye.

3) More efficient engines/motors need to be produced. Advances in technology are bringing this. Of my highest interests: direct injection (VW), advanced automatic transmissions (Toyota), electronic fuel control and pressurization (Mercedes Benz and Audi), CGI engine blocks (Honda, Dodge, and others), and cylinder managemet (Chrysler, GM, Catepillar, etc...)

Did you know that Toyota 3.5L V6 in the Camry, Avalon, Highlander, and RAV4 can get up to 34 MPG and still produce 268 HP!!! Why can't I have that engine as an option in my Tacoma? - Torque. It doesn't produce as much as the 4.0L, but it is still more than my 2.7L. I want a 3.5L!

What I like about bio-diesel and diesel engines: They (on whole) are simpler than gasoline engines. They are more efficient and produce more torque. In a pinch (disaster situation), you can make your own fuel without dealing with extremely dangerous chemicals in mass quantities.

I am not looking for diesel engines as "THE" transportation solution. I just want the option of having one. Right now, the rest of the world has that option, and here in the "great" United States - I do not.
Well said 007. Where's my f*#ing deisel tacoma!!!
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:17 AM   #39
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That is the old one. Check out the new 2.2L D4D... (http://www.toyota.co.uk/)

Quote:
The new 2.2 litre D-4D diesel engines from Toyota offer smooth, responsive power to make any journey more rewarding.

Pushing the boundaries of diesel's potential, Toyota's state-of-the-art 2.2 litre D-4D 180 clean power engine available in the T180 grade is the cleanest and most powerful engine in its class. The 177 DIN hp engine generates 400 Nm/2000-2600rpm of torque to give impressive acceleration of 0-62 in just 9.3 seconds and a top speed of 124 mph. All this with a combined cycle fuel economy of 40.4 mpg and the lowest combined NOX and particle emissions of any modern diesel.

The 2.2 litre D-4D 140 engine fitted to the XT3, XT4 and XT5 grades offers an impressive 310Nm/2000-2800 rpm of torque and a very attractive 42.8 mpg in the combined cycle. This power is delivered through a 6-speed manual gearbox to give acceleration of 0-62 mph in 10.5 seconds and a top speed of 112 mph.
Quote:
D-4D
Common rail diesel engine - smooth and responsive without compromising performance

Top Speed
111 mph (180 km/h)

Acceleration 0-62 mph (0-100kmh)
10.5 secs

Fuel Economy (Combined)
42 mpg (6 l/100km)

Carbon Dioxide Emissions
173 g/km

Power
135 ps (100 kW)

Torque
228 lb ft (310 Nm)
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:21 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by 007Tacoma View Post
That is the old one. Check out the new 2.2L D4D... (http://www.toyota.co.uk/)
Wow even better. Crazy MPG
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