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Check Engine light and Auto LSD light at 1500 miles

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Old 05-03-2010, 12:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFalken View Post
Disconnecting a battery at a service is like using a hammer to push a button. There are much more elegant ways to do things when you have the correct tools and procedures. Resetting modules and service intervals can be accomplished without the loss of radio information, shift adaptation, idle behavior and so forth that would becaused by disconnecting a battery.
agreed, but I dont know how so I didnt offer advice to him about the proper resetting. All I know is that my 05 doesnt have all this computerized stuff that can get reset, manual tranny ftw. Plus if my radio resets its no biggie, and I keep track of when to change my oil.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschloss View Post
After badgering the service department for some more information I was told that this exact type of error has occurred on other vehicles and even with different engines (Landcruiser V8 as one example, apparently owned by the owner of the dealership [Vann York Toyota]).

They call Southeast Toyota each time they see this problem and are told the same thing. Clear the CEL and change the oil. They have supposedly not seen any of the vehicles repeat the problem.

I'm left with the understanding that the service department/centers have absolutely no clue why these vehicles are throwing false errors. The people I spoke with kept throwing up nonsensical ideas as to things that could trigger it.

I was not charged anything for the visit and I have free maintenance for 2 years anyway. However, I can't say this does anything to build confidence in my new purchase.

After further review of the problem(s) I will recieve additional information in the mail, which I will in-turn post here on this thread.

Thanks for all the posts. I hope this helps anyone else who is seeing the same thing. I will probably make some calls to other local service departments to see if I can get any additional information as well.
jschloss, what I am going to type here is not in direct relation to your specific truck. I am going to try to give you some thoughts that may help you understand why we run into these types of things from time to time. It is not a Toyota issue (this specific example with your truck is) but more about how integrated vehicle systems are becoming.

Different features on our vehicles can use information and control capability from other systems to make them work. In the case of Auto LSD, it can be accomplished by using the brake system to control wheel slip. You can have a module that will take information from other modules on the system to help make control decisions about the system. As an example, the current engine rpm, torque output, throttle position and so forth could be important information. If the module that provides that data has detected a problem, it may not only illuminate its own telltale on the dash if the problem could cause an issue for another system. It may also broadcast a message on the network to inform other modules that the data is not trustworthy. The modules that need that data to work correctly will now also illuminate telltales to inform you that certain systems may not work correctly or are "offline" at this time. That is why something like a weak alternator can cause a multitude of systems to set off flags and they will all have a "code" for low power supply. That points you to where to start testing.

OK, so now there is a truck in the shop with a couple of lights on. We have a primary cause and a secondary effect. We check to current operation of the system and everything is currently operating normally. We clear the codes and operate the vehicle and cannot reproduce the problem. Now what do we do? The problem could be electrical, mechanical, electronic (programming) or even some combination. If you cannot duplicate the concern you are at a tough spot. Some of these "faults" can have VERY short detection windows in the computer. (a matter of seconds or even a fraction of a second depending on what we are talking about) So you put the vehicle back in service and see if it happens again. You track it, share the information with your peers and up the technical ladder. People try to find the conditions, common items between vehicles that show this condition or anything that would lead to a smaller window of cause for the next time you see the issue.

It sounds like the current thought (this is supposition here) is that there are some valve timing mechanisms that are a little tight on tolerance. If they have even a small delay in activation or release they can cause a very intermittent fault from time to time. The current thought may be that as they wear in, the chance of a "hang up" goes down and the fault does not occur again. It sounds like there is a pending TSB on the issue. Please share whatever information they give you as it may help make the picture a little clearer.

I hope this explanation helps with what a tech can be up against with modern vehicles. There are just so many combinations of events that can line up that duplicating them can be difficult.

For your part, paying attention to how, hot or cold the vehicle was, the weather conditions and so on can all be clues to the root cause of the problem.

No, I do not work for Toyota and I am not a fan-boy. Just hoping to help.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFalken View Post
Wow.


So how well do you understand the systems involved that could have caused this glitch in OP's truck? Could you enlighten the rest of us as to how you would have fixed it on the spot? I am sure that since you are speaking with such confidence that you must know exactly what happened with the vehicle. We are all eyes.
I have confidence that Toyota is smart enough to find out the cause and fix it now or give him a loaner until they do.

I am smart enough to know that telling a customer to just come back some other day for the problem is not good customer service.

I don't have to know the cause and neither do you.
That's why I bought a Toyota in the first place and I trust the vehicle and the mechanics that take care of it.

I don't need to know dentistry or brain surgery for similar reasons.

See? I already told you how to get it fixed right away.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:27 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nad View Post
agreed, but I dont know how so I didnt offer advice to him about the proper resetting. All I know is that my 05 doesnt have all this computerized stuff that can get reset, manual tranny ftw. Plus if my radio resets its no biggie, and I keep track of when to change my oil.
All this computer stuff is just making it funnerer and funnerer, eh? Yeah, I have been a MT driver for a long time but went auto with this last truck.

FRED is everywhere now. Freakin Ridiculous Electronic Devices! Only getting to be more every year.

Peace
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:02 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFalken View Post
jschloss, what I am going to type here is not in direct relation to your specific truck. I am going to try to give you some thoughts that may help you understand why we run into these types of things from time to time. It is not a Toyota issue (this specific example with your truck is) but more about how integrated vehicle systems are becoming.

Different features on our vehicles can use information and control capability from other systems to make them work. In the case of Auto LSD, it can be accomplished by using the brake system to control wheel slip. You can have a module that will take information from other modules on the system to help make control decisions about the system. As an example, the current engine rpm, torque output, throttle position and so forth could be important information. If the module that provides that data has detected a problem, it may not only illuminate its own telltale on the dash if the problem could cause an issue for another system. It may also broadcast a message on the network to inform other modules that the data is not trustworthy. The modules that need that data to work correctly will now also illuminate telltales to inform you that certain systems may not work correctly or are "offline" at this time. That is why something like a weak alternator can cause a multitude of systems to set off flags and they will all have a "code" for low power supply. That points you to where to start testing.

OK, so now there is a truck in the shop with a couple of lights on. We have a primary cause and a secondary effect. We check to current operation of the system and everything is currently operating normally. We clear the codes and operate the vehicle and cannot reproduce the problem. Now what do we do? The problem could be electrical, mechanical, electronic (programming) or even some combination. If you cannot duplicate the concern you are at a tough spot. Some of these "faults" can have VERY short detection windows in the computer. (a matter of seconds or even a fraction of a second depending on what we are talking about) So you put the vehicle back in service and see if it happens again. You track it, share the information with your peers and up the technical ladder. People try to find the conditions, common items between vehicles that show this condition or anything that would lead to a smaller window of cause for the next time you see the issue.

It sounds like the current thought (this is supposition here) is that there are some valve timing mechanisms that are a little tight on tolerance. If they have even a small delay in activation or release they can cause a very intermittent fault from time to time. The current thought may be that as they wear in, the chance of a "hang up" goes down and the fault does not occur again. It sounds like there is a pending TSB on the issue. Please share whatever information they give you as it may help make the picture a little clearer.

I hope this explanation helps with what a tech can be up against with modern vehicles. There are just so many combinations of events that can line up that duplicating them can be difficult.

For your part, paying attention to how, hot or cold the vehicle was, the weather conditions and so on can all be clues to the root cause of the problem.

No, I do not work for Toyota and I am not a fan-boy. Just hoping to help.

Thanks, that helps a great deal. I will post whatever service documentation they send in the mail here as a reply to this thread.

I'm honestly pretty impressed with all the input and help others were ready to offer on this forum. I'll be sure to return often.

Thanks!
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:48 PM   #26
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This just happen to me today
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:49 PM   #27
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So just asking did the battery thing work
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:04 AM   #28
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What ever came of this?
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:23 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OffroadToy View Post
Why would the problem mysteriously go away after an oil change...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschloss View Post
I took the truck in this morning. I was told that they had seen a couple other instances like this (same error reading). Apparently the error is false and it refers to an advanced camshaft ..... Bank B.....etc.

Their fix is to wait until after the first oil change. He said the problem goes away afterward.

Questions I am left with. Why did the truck throw a false error by illuminating the check engine and limited slip differential lights? Why would the false error refer to engine metrics when the LSD light came on without reason?

I was told they would mail me the service document after it was written up. I'll be following this and reply with results as I get them.
I am not a Toyota tech, but I have been around these systems for long enough to know a lot of the basics. The VVTi engine uses oil pressure to actuate the camshafts for the VVTi. It is possible that the engine, being such a low amount of mileage, may be having issues with the initial break in and wear of the engine. It is possible that the VVTi system is much more sensitive to oil viscosity and breakdown. (Again this is an assumption based on what I have heard/read in this thread, and knowledge of the VVTi system) A fresh oil change could help by having fresh oil, at the proper viscosity for proper VVTi operation. This is the only explanation I can think of for them saying an oil change could fix this. Side note: Many CEL codes will cause the traction control system to go into default, as proper engine operation is required for proper TC operation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by warpwr View Post
BS.
Here's what I would do.
Go back to the sales manager where you bought the vehicle and tell him/her you want a different new truck with NO problems. Not a LEMON.

Or delete the damn CEL and whatever NOW, today, not when you change the oil.
It could be a long time before you change the oil and besides, maybe you want to do it yourself or go somewhere else.

Dipsticks.
They are just being lazy. How much did you spend at this dealership?

If that doesn't work then ask for the highest customer service person at the dealership or VP. Then call Toyota. And keep on escalating until they fix it.
You can't get a lemon law buyback on one failure in 1500 miles. Doesn't happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFalken View Post
jschloss, what I am going to type here is not in direct relation to your specific truck. I am going to try to give you some thoughts that may help you understand why we run into these types of things from time to time. It is not a Toyota issue (this specific example with your truck is) but more about how integrated vehicle systems are becoming.

Different features on our vehicles can use information and control capability from other systems to make them work. In the case of Auto LSD, it can be accomplished by using the brake system to control wheel slip. You can have a module that will take information from other modules on the system to help make control decisions about the system. As an example, the current engine rpm, torque output, throttle position and so forth could be important information. If the module that provides that data has detected a problem, it may not only illuminate its own telltale on the dash if the problem could cause an issue for another system. It may also broadcast a message on the network to inform other modules that the data is not trustworthy. The modules that need that data to work correctly will now also illuminate telltales to inform you that certain systems may not work correctly or are "offline" at this time. That is why something like a weak alternator can cause a multitude of systems to set off flags and they will all have a "code" for low power supply. That points you to where to start testing.

OK, so now there is a truck in the shop with a couple of lights on. We have a primary cause and a secondary effect. We check to current operation of the system and everything is currently operating normally. We clear the codes and operate the vehicle and cannot reproduce the problem. Now what do we do? The problem could be electrical, mechanical, electronic (programming) or even some combination. If you cannot duplicate the concern you are at a tough spot. Some of these "faults" can have VERY short detection windows in the computer. (a matter of seconds or even a fraction of a second depending on what we are talking about) So you put the vehicle back in service and see if it happens again. You track it, share the information with your peers and up the technical ladder. People try to find the conditions, common items between vehicles that show this condition or anything that would lead to a smaller window of cause for the next time you see the issue.

It sounds like the current thought (this is supposition here) is that there are some valve timing mechanisms that are a little tight on tolerance. If they have even a small delay in activation or release they can cause a very intermittent fault from time to time. The current thought may be that as they wear in, the chance of a "hang up" goes down and the fault does not occur again. It sounds like there is a pending TSB on the issue. Please share whatever information they give you as it may help make the picture a little clearer.

I hope this explanation helps with what a tech can be up against with modern vehicles. There are just so many combinations of events that can line up that duplicating them can be difficult.

For your part, paying attention to how, hot or cold the vehicle was, the weather conditions and so on can all be clues to the root cause of the problem.

No, I do not work for Toyota and I am not a fan-boy. Just hoping to help.
VERY well said!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jschloss View Post
Thanks, that helps a great deal. I will post whatever service documentation they send in the mail here as a reply to this thread.

I'm honestly pretty impressed with all the input and help others were ready to offer on this forum. I'll be sure to return often.

Thanks!
No problem. Make sure to let us know what you hear, and what the end result is.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:17 AM   #30
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They blame mine on my intake as soon as they open the hood and saw it so never found out what it was cuz it turn off already
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