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rotating patern + can you fit a 285/70/17 spare and aftermarket rim?

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Old 08-06-2011, 09:50 PM   #1
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rotating patern + can you fit a 285/70/17 spare and aftermarket rim?

I am about to reach 65,000 miles on my Tacoma. When I did the tire rotation the guys never used the spare as part of the pattern. If they had, I would assume I could have gotten another 10,000 miles or maybe 20,000 or more.

Since Im getting new wheels and tires, getting a full size spare with an extra aftermarket rim might make it easier to include the 5th wheel as part of the deal. Whats the pattern for rotation when you include the spare?

Another reason to get the 5th wheel is lets say in 2-3 years i bend a rim on a curb or something and cant find a new one.....i'll have one. Its not like Im ordering one of a kind Chip Foose wheels or anything, but wtf.....why not?

And can you fit a full size spare under the truck with that wire holder?

I think it will fit, but better ask before I think about getting a full size spare.

Anyone have a good spare tire lock they can suggest?
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:07 PM   #2
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I'm not sure about the rotating pattern. It is easy to make a 285/70-17 fit under the bed, you just have to take a hammer to two metal horns that stick out to guide the tire under the bed.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:15 PM   #3
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Put the spare on the right rear position at every rotation. Place the tire that would have gone to the right rear in the place where the spare is stored until the next rotation.
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:39 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudhawk View Post
I'm not sure about the rotating pattern. It is easy to make a 285/70-17 fit under the bed, you just have to take a hammer to two metal horns that stick out to guide the tire under the bed.
So youre saying it wont fit with out mods? Sounds easy enough, just wondering.
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packfan88 View Post
So youre saying it wont fit with out mods? Sounds easy enough, just wondering.
Yes, it won't fit without mods. But it literally takes about 10mins, very easy once you crawl under and look at it.
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswego View Post
Front to back on the SAME SIDE.

Do not change sides.

If you want to rotate the spare into the bunch pick a side and rotate it in and out with that one side only. Or just keep the spare new and sell it when your done

IMO not worth getting a 5th rim to rotate it in the mix. You will only be able to rotate it in one one side so the other side will still see the same wear and you will still need new tires at the same time, but your spare will be worth much less because you drove on it.

I know....I have 5 rims, but my 5th was $20 and a stocker
why would you only rotate a tire front to back and not from left front to right rear?
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswego View Post
Because that's not how you rotate a radial tire. That rotation scheme was used many many years ago and no longer applies. Anyone who tells you it does........do not let them work on your truck.


The belts get used to going in one direction for thousands of miles then you throw them on the other side and you could ruin the tires. David T in the NJ thread has been running a tire shop for 20 years and he will back this up.
x2!

What's scarey is the owner's manual for my girlfriends car still has that criss cross roation pattern. Car is a 2006 also
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Old 08-08-2011, 09:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasoTaco View Post
I'm so confused right now. I know my manual says front to back and I follow that instruction however on other vehicles I did didn't see a problem with cross rotation....

http://www.wheelmax.com/Tire-Rotation_article26.asp

From your link: Read the note in bold.
Tire Rotation</SPAN>

  • Generally recommended every 3,000 to 5,000 miles.
Because tires perform different functions depending on their position on the vehicle, tire rotation is important in keeping even wear on all four tires. By rotating your tires, you can ensure a longer and more reliable service life for the entire set.

The proper method of rotating tires depends on whether your vehicle is front, rear, or four-wheel drive, as well as whether your tires are directional. Also make certain that the tires being rotated are of the same dimensions. If you aren’t sure, consult a mechanic or tire specialist.

Refer to the diagram below to determine the best rotation scheme for your vehicle:
Note: Directional Tires should only be rotated according to diagram (D).

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Old 08-08-2011, 09:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasoTaco View Post
I know that but very few of us are running directional tires such as mickey thompson baja claws.
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tec...-rotation.html
Read this thread. It's not directional referring to the tread, it's directional referring to the belts within the tire. You can screw them up by changing directions.
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:01 AM   #13
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I have slight steering wheel shakes after my first rotation on my new KM2s. I rotated tires as shown on diagram "d" at 5000 miles. Anyone experience the same issues or know what's causing the steering shakes?
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:04 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by plee33 View Post
I have slight steering wheel shakes after my first rotation on my new KM2s. I rotated tires as shown on diagram "d" at 5000 miles. Anyone experience the same issues or know what's causing the steering shakes?
Sometimes you can get slight vibes right after rotation because the tires wear differently on the front vs the back. The slight vibes are from the tread starting to 'even out' on it's new position on the truck. The tires could be cupping on the back for example, causing the vibration or shake when you put those cupped tires on the front.
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:22 AM   #15
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This is a very interesting discussion. I don't want to start a but I wonder if the don't rotate side to side is just a remnant of the the early radial tires... They have come a long way from the early radials.


As per my manual I'm staying front to back.


Thanks everybody for your input, it's a good day when you learn something new.
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasoTaco View Post
This is a very interesting discussion. I don't want to start a but I wonder if the don't rotate side to side is just a remnant of the the early radial tires... They have come a long way from the early radials.


As per my manual I'm staying front to back.


Thanks everybody's four your input, it's a good day when you learn something new.
It is a remnant of early radials but it still holds true with current radials. Here's a good write-up I found on tire rotation:
The right and wrong way to rotate tires is often disputed between tire technicians, automobile makers, and tire manufacturers. However, rotating the tires in any fashion is more important to prevent premature wear than is the rotation pattern employed. Since there are different types of tires, care and attention should be applied before rotating the tires in order to perform the procedure properly.
  1. Unidirectional Tires
    • Unidirectional tires point specifically towards the front of the vehicle in the natural rotation of the tires when moving forward on the vehicle. Because of this, they can not be crisscrossed in a proper tire rotation pattern and need to be moved front to rear along the same side of the vehicle. These tires will have an arrow pointing in the direction of its intended movement on the sidewall displaying an arrow towards the front of the vehicle.

    Front-Wheel Drive
    • Front-wheel drive vehicles apply the torque on the drivetrain of the vehicle and then accommodate 75% braking capacity for the car. Because the front wheels on all cars handle the turns when steering, edge wear can be more prominent on the front than the rear. Since front-wheel drive vehicles apply torque to the front tires, they will wear even quicker than a rear-wheel drive vehicle.
      The acceptable rotation pattern for a non-unidirectional tire on a front-wheel drive vehicle is to place the left front and the right front tires straight back on the rear axle and then crisscross the left rear tire and the right rear tires onto the front axle.
      If the vehicle features unidirectional tires, you will only be able to rotate them front to rear on the same side of the vehicle. This rotation is also acceptable and sometimes promoted by tire technicians for non-unidirectional tires.
      And yet, another way for rotating non-unidirectional tires is to crisscross the tires in an X pattern front to rear. This method is used for all-wheel and four-wheeldrive vehicles, but is still acceptable in many rotation standards.

    Rear-Wheel, Four-Wheel and All-Wheel Drive
    • Rear-wheel, four-wheel and allwheeldrive vehicles still provide 75% braking capacity for the vehicle, but the front tires are not under torque duress as are front-wheel drive vehicles. Although you may get a little more life out of the front tires on these vehicles than front-wheel drive, they still have to deal with the steering demand placed on them.
      The common rotation pattern for these types of vehicles crisscrosses the left front and the right front tire to the rear axle, while bringing the left rear and the right rear straight forward.

    Five Wheel Rotation
    • Five wheel rotation employs the spare tire being added to the equation. This is a rare rotation procedure since many vehicles feature temporary spare tires. Even some that still feature full-size spares, owners discover they are mounted on steel wheels that do not match the aluminum alloy wheels on the vehicle. An even newer dilemma is smaller sized full-size spares. You may have a truck that takes 17-inch wheels and find out the full-size spare is on a 16-inch rim. These full-size tires are intended for temporary use and are usually mounted on generic steel rims.
      Integrating the full-size spare in a five wheel rotation can be done a couple ways. A forward cross used on front-wheel drive vehicle drops the passenger front tire as the new spare, the old spare would move to the passenger rear position and then the two rear tires would crisscross forward.
      The rearward cross rotation for four-wheel, rear-wheel and all-wheeldrive drops the driver's side front tire as the new spare. The old spare still moves to the passenger rear position and then the passenger front tire moves to the driver's side rear. The rear tires would move straight forward to the front axle position.

    When to Rotate and Tire Pressure
    • Tires should be rotated every 6,000 to 9,000 miles. You can have this performed on every other to oil change if you change the oil regularly.
      Air pressure is another important aspect of tire rotation, since some vehicles recommend a variance in air pressure from the front axle to the rear. While this is not always the case, make sure the air pressure is checked in the tires during all rotation procedures.


Read more: Proper Tire Rotation | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/way_5456038_prop...#ixzz1USbXIrOV
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswego View Post
David T in the NJ thread has been running a tire shop for 20 years and he will back this up.

I read that thread, but all it says is thats how he's been doing it.Doesnt really say its right or wrong. I guess if it doesnt matter which way you do it (nowadays anyway), someone who does the X pattern can also just say "ive been doign it that way for 20 years" just like when Dave said "thats the way ive been doing it for 20 years".

So is the problem from allowing the tires to roll in one direction for too long? Meaning if you wait 20k miles, and then try and sswitch directions it may not agree with it. If you did a rotation every 5k or 10k, you think the "belts" will still be upset?

When i looked on the websites from the manufacturers of the products I am contemplating buying, they all say to do an X pattern. Firestone for example was in a world of shit with all their tire blow outs. Id think they would be on the up and up when it comes to information on their web site.

http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/tires/tirecare.jsp

But as you can see, even on the manufacturers web site it says an X pattern.

Hasnt anyone ever gotten someone from the engineering department of the manufacturers on the horn? I understand a tires shop guy will always wnt you to rotate them in a fashion to expedite wear lol, its called job security. If you get an extra 10-20k out of them by doing an X pattern they are only hurting themselves lol (no offense Dave).

I dunno, I have many miles to go before I would need to rotate them anyway. Maybe by then someone will have gotten Bibendum on the phone
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packfan88 View Post
I read that thread, but all it says is thats how he's been doing it.Doesnt really say its right or wrong. I guess if it doesnt matter which way you do it (nowadays anyway), someone who does the X pattern can also just say "ive been doign it that way for 20 years" just like when Dave said "thats the way ive been doing it for 20 years".

So is the problem from allowing the tires to roll in one direction for too long? Meaning if you wait 20k miles, and then try and sswitch directions it may not agree with it. If you did a rotation every 5k or 10k, you think the "belts" will still be upset?

When i looked on the websites from the manufacturers of the products I am contemplating buying, they all say to do an X pattern. Firestone for example was in a world of shit with all their tire blow outs. Id think they would be on the up and up when it comes to information on their web site.

http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/tires/tirecare.jsp

But as you can see, even on the manufacturers web site it says an X pattern.

Hasnt anyone ever gotten someone from the engineering department of the manufacturers on the horn? I understand a tires shop guy will always wnt you to rotate them in a fashion to expedite wear lol, its called job security. If you get an extra 10-20k out of them by doing an X pattern they are only hurting themselves lol (no offense Dave).

I dunno, I have many miles to go before I would need to rotate them anyway. Maybe by then someone will have gotten Bibendum on the phone
OK, you inspired me to do some more research so I went on Cooper's website, the company who manufactured my tires, and here's what they say about tire rotation:
<H1>Tire Rotation

Rotation: Taking Turns
You can slow down uneven tread wear by rotating your tires-which simply means moving them around so that they "trade places" on your vehicle in a systematic way. Rotation is important because each tire on a car carries a different amount of weight, making them wear at different rates. By rotating them, you basically even out those differences. Your owner’s manual will tell you how often to rotate your tires, but as a rule of thumb, it should be done every 6,000 to 8,000 miles. You might want to rotate them sooner if you see signs of uneven wear. Misalignment and other mechanical problems can also cause such wear, so check with your mechanic to determine the cause.

There are various patterns for rotating tires. A common one for front-wheel drive vehicles involves moving the tires in a criss-cross fashion, with the left front tire trading places with the right rear, and right front trading with the left rear. If you have a full-size spare, you can include it in your rotation pattern-but don’t do so with a small "temporary use" spare, because those are meant only for low-speed, short-distance emergency use.
NOTE: If your tires show uneven wear, ask your tire dealer to check for and correct any misalignment, imbalance or other mechanical problem involved before rotation. Before rotating your tires, always refer to your vehicle owner’s manual for rotation recommendations. If no rotation period is specified, tires should be rotated approximately every 6,000–8,000 miles.
If you have any questions, please contact your local tire dealer or call Cooper Tire at 1-800-854-6288.
</H1>Tire Rotation

If you have any questions, please contact your local tire dealer or call Cooper Tire at 1-800-854-6288.


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Old 08-09-2011, 04:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswego View Post
All I know is the only time I ever rotated tires in a "cross" pattern my tires turned to shit and wobbloed like crazy at speed. This was about 8 years ago in a Ford Explorer. They were Goodyear A/T's. I learned my lesson and never looked back. I ended up getting 200k out of that truck on 3 sets of tires.


They key to getting miles out of any tire is keeping the vehicle in alignment. Rotating is second IMO. Once a tire goes bad from crap alignment you can't save it no matter how much you rotate it.
I was hoping David would comment on the criss cross because he was pretty definitive when he told OZ the tires were FUBAR if criss crossed. I'll still continue to just do front to back, but it seems that criss crossing isn't a big issue. If it was, I can't see why the tire manufacturers would list it as an acceptable way to rotate tires.
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Old 08-09-2011, 09:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswego View Post
So they can sell more tires

David knows his shit and he is the best place to go in NJ IMO for truck work. If he wasn't 2-1/2hrs away he would do all my alignments. I had him do my brake lines, first alignment, and mount all my tires.....and then he gave me a set of Duratracs for free that went to Burgman.
I wouldn't doubt David one bit, he just helped me out with warranty issues on my Coopers (issues my dealer told me not to worry about). I also wouldn't doubt that the criss cross pattern would wear tires quicker but I wanted him to comment on why he said FUBAR. To me, that means unsafe and you just destroyed your tires by rotating them that way.
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