Is The 2015 Chevy Colorado In Danger Of Becoming A Failed Experiment?

I think you missed his sarcasm lol. BTW torque gets you up to speed HP holds you there. Trucks need more torque or very efficient gearing. Toyota's V6 engine is just as torqury as the GM engine, any difference depends on the gearing.

That's also why the twins have their engines at the redline when towing, the low end just isn't there. I hope the new Toyota engine doesn't lose the lower torque band in the name of efficiency.

 

Yes....kinda. I'll explain why below.

100% false. If you actually look at the numbers you'll notice that both engines make nearly identical peak torque figures at the exact same RPM; 4000. So no need to redline. Though there is a nice present up near redline for the GM engines....what's nice is the Colorado engine continues to make good torque at higher RPMs which is why it makes much more power. At 6800rpm, where it makes 305hp, it's still making 235tq. The fact that the Tacoma 4.0L makes peak HP (236) at 5200rpm means that torque at that RPM (238) is falling off a cliff there. I believe the reason for this is the longer stroke. This is why the redline is so low. I haven't found any real graphs for the GM engine yet but I believe it too makes good torque down low at 2000rpm.

But what does all that mean? Well, the Tacoma FEELS uber fast off the line because our gearing on 1st is so damn short. Great for starting off when you're racing or towing but that's about it. That's why, in comparison to that "off the line" fast feeling, when you're on the highway the bitch just won't move. The GM engine makes the same torque as the tacoma and it does it for an extra 1400RPM longer. I won't lie to you; that's hard to ignore. I'm betting on the highway the Colorado is much better in terms of passing power.

One thing I noticed is that the GM engine seems to respond quite well to modifications which is a plus. A simple tune yields an increase of 30tq and 27whp which is downright impressive. That's starting to creep up on V8 power figures. Maybe with an intake/exhaust combo you'll be the rest of the way there. *Obama not bad face*

 

Well I saw this today at a Ford Dealer....

http://www.accollinsford.com/pre-ow...orado-2WD-WT-League-City-TX/vehicleid/1555133

Someone did not like their Colorado....

 

Towing and off the line performance are pretty much what trucks, even little trucks, should be good at. Just my opinion. Also, you missed that a low first gear is great off road or when the truck is heavy (lots of weight from things like passengers and cargo).

What I said isn't 100 percent false. Are you trying to tell me that torque isn't important in a pickup? I know what you're saying, that the GM has a wider high end torque band, but that's where the gearing makes way more difference than the engine itself. I'd rather have an engine choose a shift than run for any amount of time above 5000 rpm.

When I took out a Colorado it was nothing special in terms of passing power. Btw is the tune your talking about another quality product from bully dog or the like? If so, flush that number down the toilet. It's not real. Besides I'd rather not push what was designed as a mini van engine much past its stock ratings.

The Colorado is creeping up on tiny displacement and old V8 numbers. All the mainline V8's are pushing near or at 400 hp and torque off the crank now. Even the 302 in my wifes Ford feels huge under the hood and it's the smallest "upgrade" V8 available on the market.

 

And what was the 3.5L in the 3rd gen designed as? Its the exact same thing as the 3.6L in the Colorado. Same design all the way up and down and will probably have the same HP/torque numbers.

A small pickup should be good at towing and off the line performance and should have low end torque and that's why the Cummins and Duramax I-4 diesels will put these toy V6's into their place in the Costco parking lots where they belong.

 

They have a new Ford F150 with the Ecoboost in my local Costco parking lot as advertising .

I agree that the new 3.5 L isn't that exciting. If anything it'll be like the new GM engine. Hopefully Toyota pulls a miracle and it's more like the current engine we have but much better at sipping gas.

I think that, with the current emissions equipment, the Duramax I4 will be disappointing. If it's anything like what other Diesel have become since emissions equipment was added it won't be nearly the engine it could of been. I guess we will see in a few months!

 

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Totally agree.

Not at all. Just pointing out the GM engine isn't torque deficient. It's actually better.

I'll just leave this here...the numbers themselves aren't what interests me (since all dynos read differently) but rather the difference the tune made. VERY real gains throughout the ENTIRE rpm band.

^Hit the nail on the head really. So for the guys that want to tow a house GM has you covered with the duramax diesel that comes out in the fall. Rather than trying to please the masses with 1 single engine they decided to use specific engines for specific purposes.

But I can't say that Toyota was wrong in their thinking. Market analysis will show that most of you (yes, even the people on this forum) use their truck for normal commuting/daily driving more than 90% of the time. Thus, a smaller gas engine is ideal for the majority of the truck's use.

 

Better how so, above 5000 rpm... Not really where I care about my torque.

Whose tune though? My point is that tuners, like bully dog, have been blowing up gas motors for years now. Gasoline engines are usually tuned pretty well by the manufacturers. The "power" tunes tend to blow motors, especially from the less reputable manufacturers.

Bully dog also claims around 30 HP on the Tacoma, but ask around on here from any serious truck guy whether they would ever run a bully dog on there truck.

I'm just curious why you guys think the Duramax is going to make the Colorado a towing machine? I'd still rather have a V8 half ton that'll likely be cheaper to operate and maintain. That's why my family bought a new Ford F150. How much do you want to bet that the Diesel Colorado will price out nearly as high as my F150 XLT XTR 5.0 L and still behave the Colorado be literally half the truck?

 

In what way will the Colorado be "literally half the truck" of the F150?

 

If you read my post you'd realize both engines make peak torque at the same RPM. Will be interesting to see what the new Toyota "minivan" engine will yield.

You act like tuning is some sort of dark art that always ends in a blown up engine. This isn't rocket science. There's plenty of reliable tunes out there for a ton of vehicles. However, it's been my experience that the 1GR-FE doesn't yield much in the way of gains in NA form.

Well based on your own logic that torque moves things and you want it at a low RPM....yes, the duramax diesel will make it the best towing midsize truck on the market. Something like 350tq available at near idle speeds should be great for towing.

I absolutely agree that it will likely end up being a pricey option though. But at the auto show this weekend I sat in a Ford F150 Crew Cab. I think it's the best truck on the market; hands down. It's been the best seller for decades for a good reason. Ford's formula flat out WORKS. But there's a problem. Sitting in it I thought to myself, "Holy shit, I might actually get lost inside here. I'll have to send GPS coordinates for anyone to find me!"

I simply don't need or want a truck that big. In fact, it's size is actually something that turns me away from an otherwise nearly perfect vehicle. If Ford made an F150 scaled to about 84% of it's normal size (The F125 lol) it would be the perfect truck for me. And you know what? That's EXACTLY what GM did with the GMC Canyon. It's a mirror image of the full size Sierra; just a wee bit smaller. I think that's the proper concept to follow but that's my opinion.

 

Tow rating, max on an F150 is over 12,000 lbs. Colorado is a shade under 7,000 lbs. With a 4,000 lbs trailer, which is what I have, the F150 can man handle the thing without a sweat. I'd be slowly killing the Colorado with that much weight, considering my S/C Tacoma wasn't liking it either.

The F150 is a platform designed as a swiss army knife with a great pedgree as a town truck. My wife and I went through the buying process and considered originally: a 2015 4Runner, a 2015 Colorado, or waiting to see the 2016 Tacoma in person. My wife didn't want a "big" truck so she admittedly refused to test drive a Silverado or F150. Then one day Ford made us a great offer, I do alot of business with the owner of the local dealership. We drove a 2015 5.3 L Silverado and a 2015 5.0 L Ford of similar trims. One drive in the 2015 F150 with the V8 and my wife didn't want to wait for another Tacoma for towing, hauling garbage to the dump, driving around town, and helping out friends from time to time. End of story.

If you REALLY think the Diesel Colorado is going to hold a candle to an F150 towing a travel trailer stock, you sir are on crack.

 

Quick summary, we have a difference of opinions based on different needs. I already have a Tacoma for the bush and small places. The F150 is for the open road. I've never had a problem manuvering even my 3/4 Dodge when I go to Calgary, though I will agree that the Tacoma is an easier fit and likely so is the Colorado.

I agree that, based on Torque, that Colorado diesel will out tow everything else available. I'm just waiting to see one and drive it in person, the Colorado still tows like a small truck and that's not what I wanted for my family.

That big cab is a huge benefit to us. I'm going to use it when I entertain customers instead of my Dodge 2500. The Ford cab is really hard to beat.

 

Very well put.

For me, I only want to own ONE truck and it needs to do a lot of things well. It's kinda like different size cell phones. Some makers have HUGE offerings that are borderline tablets and some even have tiny phones too. But there's that sweet spot (think Goldie Locks) where it's just the right size to do EVERYTHING pretty darn well.

Will that size be the BEST offroad vehicle? Hell no, it won't have a short enough wheelbase and it won't have ideal approach and departure angles. But it will do darn good offroad and still manage to have great fuel economy and legroom for rear seat passengers. Will that sweetspot size be good for pulling your trailer full of horses or a bulldozer? Nope. But it will do just fine for towing a lot of other things.

 

Lol, sorry to keep answering but I notice 2 things. Did you sit in the Colorado with the driver seat adjusted and then sit in the back? For me, and I'm only 5'11", the Colorado still had my knee's touching the back of the seat in the backseat. That's not a lot of room, especially versus even my wifes old Hyundai Sonota, where I had a lot more leg room than that.

Also the V6 fuel economy, as mentioned and cited a few pages back, of the Colorado has been subpar. 18 mpg is all that setup gets. My wifes F150 is averaging 17 mpg during break in...

Maybe the Diesel will be better, but for the 4 K in extra cost it'll end up being a toss up. Maybe it'll work out with better trade in value but I'm not sure the 1/4 ton diesels will hold value like there 3/4 ton cousins.

 

Oh, and one thing I want to clarify, everything I'm posting is not calling the 2015 or 2016 Tacoma or even F150 the end all or be all of trucks. I just think, in the spirit of the topic, that the Colorado isn't selling as hot as it should be given how "superior" a product some people are making it out to be. The truck, as it is, isn't that special right now. It has common features the Tacoma is missing until next year, but other than that what is it?

I'm also going to question the look of the Colorado. Who wants a truck that looks like an equinox? The GMC looks much better. I'm on the fence about the 2016 Tacoma but at least the Ford looks bold and has a style that instantly grew on both myself and the wife. Especially in Red and Chrome

The reliability after all the recalls also scared me away from buying one.

Lastly, the Diesel. Oh the Diesel. When I first heard about the Diesel even I was a bit excited. Then I checked my own books at work to see how our 3/4 tons with Diesels, from every manufacturer, were holding up. You could see how, basically after emissions came in the mid 2000's, reliability hit the fan hard. Plus our average fleet mileage is 15 mpg! 15 mpg, on a fleet that see's towing rarely and only heavy loading! I get it, there's lots of Diesel Audi's running around getting excellent mileage, towing, etc, but my experience says GM isn't releasing a knockoff Porsche diesel.

My feeling is that this Colorado really needed to cement a spot early against the Tacoma to sell enough units to please GM. I think that goal is still very much in question.

 

The Canyon offers 3" more legroom than the Tacoma. Still not huge, but again, they've improved on what Toyota has done and I don't expect the 3rd gen to change at all based on the same exact cab. Again, if you're needing a TON of legroom for more frequent passengers a full size is your best bet. But I still argue the sweet spot is where the GM twins sit right now. Arguing that a sedan (a 4 door vehicle built for the sole purpose of hauling passengers in comfort) has more legroom than a 4 door midsize truck is just assanine. Of course it has more leg room, that's it's main design point. On the other hand, the Sonata is terrible at towing, therefore making it an overall terrible vehicle...

I believe edmunds averaged 17.5mpg over several hundred miles including a generous amount of towing. My friend just bought a Canyon and says he consistently gets about 22mpg.

And yes, only time will tell with the diesel. I'd like to think it would be the more desirable of the two with regards to resale but that remains to be seen, like you said. I think that will depend mostly on the reputation of the engine (which has been good overseas) and also the diesel market in general. If diesel catches on a bit more as a consumer fuel for passenger vehicles it will be a good thing (in more ways than one).

 

Who said anything about a mid size truck out towing a modern 1/2 ton V8? Not gonna happen. People hear "diesel" and they think 6.6L Duramax, 6.7L Cummins, and 6.7L Powerstokes. Obviously that's not the case because its a mid sized truck.

The diesel Colorado and diesel frontier probably wont have any higher tow rating than the comparable gas models. But they will poop on the gas counterparts in the towing department and get better mpg while doing it. And get better overall mpg and have useful torque unlike the van engine powered Tacoma and Colorado.

 

That made me laugh. Remember, in my case, I had a wife who wanted something better than her Sonata in everyway. Towing was a big part of the equation, but being able to hold 4 people and gear was just as important. A full sized truck was clearly the winner, but I really do think GM could of done a better job arranging the cab to get enough leg room for a normal person back there. Towing and legroom for passengers are not mutually exclusive.

My F150 gets 20 mpg highway. When you ask someone "hey what's your truck getting for mileage" I find most people either answer with a high or low number, not the true average. I used the tank size to calculate the break in on the F150. It was 17 mpg. It towed around a small trailer for 150 km of that. Apples to apples right?

The only scary thing with Diesel is the way the US is forcing barges and local seaway traffic to use Diesel instead of bunker. Diesel is a "waste" fuel, gasoline is directly tied to it's NA production. If Diesel becomes high demand I see the price of Diesel going way out of whack, and that's scary for a lot of reasons too.

 

Sorry, that's just the impression I get from people on here. A lot of people are talking about the Colorado Diesel handling 5000 lbs like a half ton, which is crazy talk. So we are in agreement there.

What's ironic is that if Ford ever chooses to move there small diesels (they have two in NA btw) into other vehicles they will technically be moving a van motor into there trucks , considering the Diesels were both in Vans before trucks in that case.

The better Diesel mpg will depend on the emissions and asking price. Too high a price or too strict an emissions system and you'll never make your money back before you trade it off or kill the motor.

I'd wait to see what the new Tacoma motor is like before commenting. It seems to be the van engine 2FE, but it could be an entirely new version of the 2FE with different stroke, valving, timing, etc....