Freedom of religion

Well, it does matter in the eyes of law, religion and frankly - common sense. Business is not a human being, no matter how you look at it.

As for special, I think I replied to that above.

 

Are you being refused service for being straight ?

 

Business don't exist without people... Its private and last time I checked this is the home of the Free. As mentioned before, private businesses have always had the right to refuse customer's. Why make an exception for gays?

No but I can be refused marriage in other religions because of my belief. Why no outcry over that?

My Christian brethren unite! Its time we march on those Jewish oppressors and demand our right to get married under the Jewish Law!!

Ridiculous.

 

One point I'm not seeing with all the smoke screen of a pizza joint.

What about when the 'business' is a non-tax funded (private), legally formed and regulated organization that functions in the social services arena? (same as a pizza joint, just a different product)

So an orphanage, adoptive services, etc. might be used as common examples.

Why should such an organization be required to go against their core values?

Before jumping, consider a few things.............

I didn't say what 'kind' of core values.

Or mention faith. So don't assume any, or a specific type.

But as simplistic example, if atheists (no faith, but a core value) had orphanages, and they did not care to place a child in a home that had any god or God centricity (doesn't matter which or what kind of god/God) because it would be against their core values.

Do they not have the right, as a private entity, to make that choice? If not, you'll start seeing these types of places (and their are hundreds, serving thousands) closing shop, and the burden of these services move 100% to the taxpayer and already overburdened and under producing state organizations.

Could augment the apparent plan of more government dependency?

I work at a local food pantry. We take anyone and everyone from our local area in need. We are small with limited resources. We ask our participants for proof of their zip code; as we want to focus on our local area, not be pulling from neigboring towns. We want to impact our local community.

We manage to serve several dozen individuals/families in various states of need (from homeless to just temporarily jobless) every week.

But by the logic bantered here, we are discriminating based on zip code.

Can't wait to see the law include that one.

 

Scientology discriminates against a lot of people... No outcry...

 

To your point, ..... how does a homeless guy prove his zip code?

 

Most of them have some form of State ID or even a drivers license. We try to go by that as reasonably as possible.

There are certainly exceptions every week. Mostly because I can't ever recall actually turning anyone away. But the ones outside the area 'get it', and tend not to come back. Often I suppose because we can point them to similar services in their area. Or just respect for what we are doing.

There are 'abusers' who enjoy the dole. But most folks want to be independent and appreciate the assistance, so it's not a big issue.

 

There is a comparison that is made often in that I think isn't legitimate...and that is to compare this issue to discrimination based on race.

To begin...we all discriminate. It is unavoidable. We all make distinctions and decisions based on those distinctions. There is not a day that goes by that all of us don't discriminate in one way or another

When it comes to human sexuality we all discriminate. One person may see a sexual act and say that it is moral...another will see the same act and find it immoral. Our prisons have a lot of people (rightly so...imo) locked up, their rights denied because we decided they were sexually immoral. Think of rape as an example. We as a society are forcing our morality on that individual. And I'm glad for it.

Homosexual sex, regardless of were you land on it's morality, is a sexual act. So is Heterosexual sex. People have different opinions, informed by different means, on the morality of the act. I'm OK with that. But we can't deny that it's a sexual act, and therefore a moral act.

Here is where the comparison breaks down.

A persons race or skin color is neither moral or immoral. It just is what it is. Do people discriminate because of it? Yep. But that's not my point. I think someone who discriminates based on skin color is wrong...and I support the laws that prevent that type of discrimination. It's not immoral to be white or brown or whatever color someone is. Never has been, never will be

We all make distinctions based on an things that have moral qualities. We base our laws on those distinctions. Sexuality is one of those things.

To compare this issue with discrimination based on race I feel is comparing two different types of things. You are comparing something with moral qualities with something that has no moral qualities.

That's why it is not the same.

IMO

 

Try working downtown a block or so from their world center.

I actually had a good time engaging them in conversation. Of course only the bottom level minions are on the street with riff raff like me; not the big guns.

No outcry because their techniques squelch any uproar from most. If they can't bring you to personal ruin with skeletons (cheapest way) or personal intimidation, they'll choke you with lawyers, betting you run out of resources before they do.

 

Dig the logic............

 

Trying to use laws to ensure everyone is nice to everyone and nobody's feelings get hurt will never work.

I am all about equal rights but this discussion is more about discrimination than it is Rights. I don't know that we all have the Right to eat at any particular privately run restaurant. I don't know where that puts people when it comes to private life and private businesses. I want to go to your birthday but you don't like me. Is that wrong of you. I want you to give me a massage at your home business but i creep you out because i always stare at you so you ask me to leave. Is that wrong? I get asked to leave a women's only gym because I have a penis. What now? Lots and lots of grey area.

If people were capable of being decent to each other it wouldn't be an issue. If people would apply the one "golden rule" which is present in some form in all religions instead of getting butt-hurt worrying about what everyone else is doing wrong, this conversation wouldn't be necessary.

 

Why is a sexual act a moral act. Because you choose based on your beliefs and goals and intentions?

 

I guess it is West Coast only at this hour

 

Friday night.

 

because some things are right (moral) other things wrong (immoral).

Our prisons have many people who are there because they committed a sexual act we deemed immoral. Rape for example.

The reasons why we deem some sexual acts moral and other sexual acts immoral is another discussion.

My point was simply to make the observation that they are.

 

I don't think we're moving backwards. I think we're charging forward and the interolant people in the back are just causing a fuss about it. One day, they'll realize how foolish it is in the back.

 

I was gone almost all day, got sliders welded on, and you guys are still here!

 

we have no sliders to weld!

 

OK but that's like saying eating is a moral issue because some people are allowed to go hungry. Comparing criminal rape to consensual sex is ridiculous.

Moral / Immoral = Right / Wrong.

It doesn't matter if genitals are involved.