SOLVED! Post 2853 Leaking Injectors, Dealer Techs Rock! Extended Cranking after Engine Swap 3.4L 5vz

Thank you so much for continuing to work so hard on the Taco Jay, we appreciate it so much.

Being totally honest here - I have no clue what these valve clearance specs mean. I'm sure they are important, but I'm hoping to educate myself/get some education on TW today about what this means. I'd love to talk to you and/or Jason about it all sometime........

We are still very hopeful, even though the truck is being ridiculously stubborn. I hope this is still a fun project (or at least somewhat fun?) and you're not letting it piss you off too much.......I know I've had more than a few moments of serious anger at that truck, right TW?

I keep thinking about that cool story that Jason told about you, where no one else could figure out that car that came into you guys, then others gave up/lost interest, but you just kept trying, wiggling wires, staring at how things were routed, etc, and realized a wire to the igniter was the problem. I think you said it was touching the fuel rail? Or getting too hot? Maybe both? Anyway, we are hoping you are still enjoying tackling this, because we've got all the patience in the world when we know someone as dedicated/talented is trying to solve it for us. Good luck today!

 

My cutie girls in the Taco at the beach......

 

Just had a great idea. Looking in our FSM to lurn myself about the Taco's valves......will post if anything interesting comes of this little project......will post in EDIT form, just cuz DP likes the edits......

EDIT: Found FSM file on valves, going to read over it now. Figured I'd share it for anyone interested....

EDIT #2: First impression of valve clearance chapter in FSM - huh? Total honesty on this thread, right?

Second impression - wow, that's a whole lot of work to get to those suckers! Thank you Noahpete!

EDIT #3: Gave up on reading FSM. That's some tough reading, kudos to you Jay & Jason! Found an easier read article about valves on what is becoming my new fave site (2nd to TW of course!): http://www.aa1car.com/library/ar1192.htm

It says this just above the photo of the piston:

"Valves can also run hot because of elevated combustion temperatures. Factors such as retarded ignition timing, lean fuel mixtures (often due to vacuum leaks), detonation (from too much compression or low octane fuel) or preignition (from hot spots caused by deposits in the combustion chamber or too hot a spark plug) can all play a role here. Likewise, exhaust restrictions such as a clogged catalytic converter or crushed pipe can make the valves run hot."

Wonder if the excessive cranking problem is from an exhaust leak, or problem with the cat? I'm not sure how much things like that have been checked.......

 

I agree.

Hopefully they checked the cam journal to cam bearing clearances when the heads were rebuilt.

 

All of the questionable stuff about the engine does make me concerned, even if it's just a loss of horsepower in the big picture. We frequently drive UP mountain passes with the Taco loaded to the gills with dogs, coolers, gear of all sorts, whiskey . I am not a light traveler - you guys with wives, you know how it is! I remember our first trip together.....the look on Eric's face when I brought all my stuff out to load up in his Blazer, just for a quick trip to Bend - priceless......

Or hauling all our fencing supplies in summers - we are hauling a good amount of concrete and lumber when we're working on our fencing project, so naturally we break the Depot runs into as few trips as possible based on the Taco's weight capacity. And we have to pull a fairly steep hill every time we haul that stuff to get home. Loads of gravel for more drainage always flirt with the weight capacity too.......

Question is, do you guys think the concerning leak down results mean we have to adjust how we use the truck (in regard to its power capabilities) if we don't somehow repair whatever is needed to have better leak down results? I'd love to hear as many opinions as possible on this.......

While I don't want to focus on the obvious negative side of this whole thing right now, I have to vent for a second. I am so disappointed that the engine mechanics were so convincing about the top quality end result we'd be left with, particularly in regard to the engine. You guys that have been here from the start, you know how much we agonized over that decision, then settled on them and passed over lower priced options, because they convinced us we'd receive top quality everything, ESPECIALLY the engine. I worked SO hard to teach myself as much as I could by picking your brains, reading countless articles/forums, and by calling gazillions of rebuilders, mechanics, parts stores, etc. And I thought I did a great job asking him all the important questions before we took the Taco there, especially when it was all brand new stuff to me, and it just really sucks to feel so deceived/taken advantage of like that, after trying that hard to do our homework and make an informed decision. Just a real bummer looking back then seeing things turning out this way. But finding out what the heck is causing the excessive cranking is way more important to focus on. Way more productive too. Can't change what happened, gotta keep trying to move forward. Spilt milk and all that. Sorry for the downer, closing that whole topic now. End rant.

And on a much more positive note, how lucky are we that these incredibly generous guys have stepped up and are now working so hard to help us?!? I am still in shock at our good fortune in meeting them......

EDIT: and this Friday's Waylon pick is.........drumroll please.......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5VXHy6ljvQ

And no, the lyrics are not intended towards the Taco

 

First off-got to a happy place.

Second-you do not need to change the way you treat your Tacoma. Its a truck and that's the way it is supposed to be run. These numbers are just numbers. Yes they are wrong for a fresh rebuild, but not that far off a vehicle that is decently broke in.

Third-the only thing you need to worry about is getting this god damn hot start issue taken care of. If these cats' can find the "smoking gun", and it turns out to be something stupidly simple(I still subscribe to that being it), you can ask for donations for finding the answer. Look at all the people that landed on this thread. If only 10% of them have the same issue, which by your own searches shows to be quite common, ask for something really cheap and you can help pay off some of these bills. If you don't I will. I'ts done all the time for really, really other stupid reasons and people have come out rich. I wouldn't, for a minute feel like I was begging for money. You guys have done some seriously heavy lifting when it comes to hunting for the solution. My hat is off to you and your husband.

I don't even have this problem with my almost identical vehicle, but if you find the answer, I will be donating money. Educations cost money, embarrassment or pain. I would rather pay the money. I think you and your husband have paid for your educations on this truck all 3 ways. You are do some compensation for all the hard work and communications to the rest of us.

You guys rock!

KO

not KD, it sounds too much like Katie Honestly, I'm a dude.

 

You are too kind Koditten, too kind.

1st off - Working on this, but at least something cool happened in the meantime....more on this later...

2nd - So do those results seem consistent with an engine that has lots of miles on it, maybe even as many as our old one?

3rd - Agree 100% about focusing on hot start issue. But I gotta oppose a fundraiser. Thank you so much for saying all of that nice stuff, it definitely cheered me up man. I just needed to vent to my TW buddies this morning. It would be way more than enough "reward" for me to fix the Taco and to maybe even find some secret elusive answer that helps other people with this problem. We'll get through this. Especially with all these great people supporting us

Oh yeah, the happy place thing - Wyoming from Yotatech joined TW today! Only one on Yotatech that stuck with us on the threads we began over there way back in early December. Asked him to join this thread then got a message that he's in to the end, and is now going to read 135 pages to catch up......

Welcome to TW Wyoming!

 

Are you getting that O2 sensor changed? On my '04, I had a code thrown, said the 02 sensor was bad. The truck did have some troubles starting, but it was during cold starts as well as warm starts. I changed the 02 sensor and it has been starting just fine.

I cheeped out and just ordered the $54 sensor from Rock Auto.

Later

KO

 

Thanks K. We are totally up for changing those out. We had the same ones from RA then we returned them because we were talked out of them being a possible cause. But I've read that it's good to change those ~100k anyway, so I wish we would have just put those in anyway...would definitely be up for doing them now.

 

This video is the Tacoma start up first thing this morning. The fuel pressure has bled down to 0psi overnight but it starts totally normally.

https://youtu.be/5H_7NqLweR8

This is a video of my 1997 4Runner. No modifications have been made to any system except that I put on a first gen trd supercharger recently so the pressure regulator is boost referenced this may or may not make a difference? As you can tell from the video these two vehicles have some way different fuel pressure characteristics. This start is not a first thing cold start this is after recently running the vehicle.

https://youtu.be/_iDvwHF5S7A

Gratuitous supercharger pic



That little plastic donut is the coupler between the nose cone and the gears. it was bad (holes were egg shaped) and making a really bad knocking noise. Another tech replaced the supercharger unit with an updated newer version so I got this one life is sweet

 

Evil possessed Jen and Eric truck. WTF?. Alright, I yield somewhat, that's the second time it has started just fine with zero PSI. One for the books and stories to tell. There is a bleed off there somewhere, but it's not affecting it apparently when cold. Regulator has been checked repeatedly.

Funny that the pressure flips down to about 20psi right when Jay's boost referenced setup first kicks,,and it starts just fine warm. The motor doesn't even have a chance to think about it. Jealous of the SC.

Crazy.

 

Can't sleep, so I checked the thread.

I'm not sure how a FPR is checked, but FWIW, I don't know if ours has or not? I know our fuel pressure has been checked several times by several mechanics, but not sure whether FPR was part of those tests or not.

We were told replacing the FPR would fix the hot start problem, way back in early January right after we were 1st told about the problem. Supposedly a brand new one straight from Toyota was put on. That's all I know.

But it does seem weird to me, that if that thing (FPR) is working properly, then what the heck is going on with our fuel pressure? Very weird - definitely evil possessed!

Would a leak in a fuel line somewhere explain the funky fuel pressure readings? Or some kind of clog/dented/damage, or air bubble? I know at least one leak was noted in a fuel hose near the regulator by the mechanic that first looked at it after the engine guys. He replaced that and I believe some other fuel lines/hoses, but maybe there are others with problems?

 

One other thing to mention - pretty sure one mechanic said there were lots of hydrocarbons (raw fuel) coming out of tail pipe during bad starts.

 

Is there any way to open the throttle without adding fuel? It acts like fuel is getting in the engine, but no air. Does anyone have a bore camera that can look at throttle plate while hard starting? I said before, I would put a manual throttle cable on the throttle to see what happens.
Is throttle portion at zero when these hard starts occur, common sense says it needs to be slightly open during warm starts. Don't mind me, just thinking out loud.

 

Uh oh, new thread member........guess who dollysdad is?

 

Hi all, I am Mr. Lovemytacolots I can't explain how much I appreciate everybodys help, on and off the forum. This stubborn pick up truck has become sentimental to us, and we are determined to fix it. It only took 135 pages before I joined the conversation. My real name is Eric. I was thinking maybe I could make a couple of comments here and there when I have time. Nice to meet everyone and again I appreciate all of your help

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=zu...QTr5oHIBg&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q&f=false

I realize this article is from 1988, but then again our truck was built in 1998. It has a spot about zero fuel pressure. I especially noticed the part about a possible bent fuel line or clogged filter and such. I dunno, maybe worth a shot to look at? Also, I wonder if that super charger would fit on our intake as long as you have it out on the bench

 

Welcome to TW Eric!,,Where the inmates run the Asylum!.

Pertty easy to navigate, Lots of good folks to help out.

 

Along those lines there is the "throttle opener" we discussed pages ago. It holds the throttle plate open a tad (for more air) until the engine starts. Engine vacuum then closes the plate against it's stop in the normal idle position.
IIRC Jen and company checked it's operation as per the FSM. It couldn't hurt to have the new guys check it. It's the kind of item that could have easily been bumped in the swap.
It sure looks to be an intermittent rich/flooded condition (or lack of air).

I see the injectors were checked/cleaned again. I didn't see results of checks done (post #2639) to isolate where the fuel in the "intermittent residual fuel pressure quick bleed off" was going.
Also did not see if the last injector leak test was done at the trucks abnormal 57 PSI and hot.

 

X2, run away now! save yourself