Eco Block from crawford performance

The ECU can do a min and max of 25% so you are saying that your ltft was at +25? If this is the case then there is something very wrong as our EB is designed to see half that amount and no other customer has seen that high of a ltft either. I would recommend checking what your ltft is without the EB installed, sounds like you will be seeing a +10 or more.

 

Got an email earlier from jon, oring is in the mail! Again your guy's customer service is top notch!

 

I would like to report my recordings for the month of April. Note that my records for the month of March are post #928 on page 47.

Below are my numbers for the month of April

4/6/15--> 389.5 miles / 15.944 gal = 24.43mpg
4/9/15--> 373.4 miles / 14.828 gal = 25.18mpg
4/15/15--> 377.8 miles / 16.086 gal = 23.49mpg
4/21/15--> 375.6 miles / 15.989 gal = 23.49mpg
4/27/15--> 405.5 miles / 16.701 gal = 24.28mpg

So now I have a month and a half of data collected, 8 complete fill-ups, and over 3,000 miles being involved with the EB Q3. Note, I am still driving the same commute and conditions as last month except for the fuel-up on 4/9 which involved a 130 mile round trip of driving 55 mph with very little speed change. So far the EB has been good to me as I can say that I have never averaged over 23mpg this easily. Also, after reading through the last few pages I have been monitoring my long term fuel trim and have not noticed any marginal variances that would concern me. Overall I am happy with the purchase that I made from Crawford and would like to say thanks to Quirt for always being attentive on this thread because there are questions that I find myself asking and by the time I read through the questions of other members, Quirt usually has already answered them.

 

My LTFT is +/- 3% with out the block installed.

Reason says that I am getting unmetered air when the block is installed but I have done every check I can think of and have yet to find a leak.

 

How is the oring on your MAF sensor? Some have found that the factory seal is not good so we have been supplying a new oring to our customers with an old deformed seal.

 

The new O ring Crawford sends out fixes this whole problem ^^^^ I never had what J was saying but my LTFT lowered a considerable amount after installing the thicker O ring. There is ZERO room for leakage with the new O ring lol.

 

I'm considering getting this. Will it automatically come with the correct O-ring or will I have to ask for it?

 

We now send the new MAF sensor oring out with the Eco Block, much more cost effective for us

 

Pre-Spacer

11 months of highway, city, and wheeling
No drivetrain or tire changes
51 Fill-ups averaging 13.41mpg (corrected for tire size)

Post-Spacer Install (highway, city, 1 wheeling trip)
12 fill-ups averaging 13.75mpg

I received the new o-rings yesterday. Installing tonight and will see if that gains me anything more.

 

I used and installed the new provided o-ring on the MAF. I have verified that the o-rings are not damaged in anyway.

I'm not new to finding unmetered air. I also have a fair bit of experience with bad LTFT and diaging the cause. In this case it is directly related to the block. Air is finding a way in at speed. It is not RPM dependent. It is speed dependent.

I still have the block, uninstalled. I will do more diag work this weekend. But doing this mod has shown to cause unmetered air to get in the system. Not just on my install. It would be advantageous to have access to equipment that can read the STFT and LTFT when doing this mod to verify the trims before and after.

 

What are you using to pull the FT data?

 

Here is the thing, I don't know if you have an actual concern or not because I'm not there, and i dont have my scan tool hooked up to your truck, but let me lend some advise.

1. If you know how to "diag" a lean condition you wouldn't need help from a Toyota tech. 2. You would have clearly asked what your long term and short term fuel trims where when the Toyota tech had his scan tool hooked up. I can tell you that my long term fuel trim ranges from10.9@idle to 4.7@5500RPM. Short term fuel trim stays close to 0 at operating temperature. My MAF reads 3.3g/s at operating temperature at idle.

Now, my trucks information may be irrelevant to your truck, but if you are truly diagnosing and have actual experience, sensor monitoring is much more important that "I hear something at 60-70MPH". Shoot, to be honest with you all I ever hear at those speeds is wind noise, catch my drift? If your truck is also pre-denotating with the Eco block, you can also take timing reading before and after the Eco block, if your timing is being retarted, then there may be a concern. Another thing, if you also have a bad enough air leak you can also spray around the Eco block to determine your air leak concern.

One other thing, you said that your concern is not RPM dependent, but speed depend, in all reality an engine still goes up in RPM and your concern will actually be an angine load conditon, not related to your vehicle's speed.

Hope you figure it out the issue.

 

Ok you said that the block is sealed but that air is finding a way in! But not trough the block! But it's the fault of the block!

You say that the block is changing your LTFT and STFT. Are you sure you know the principle behind the block?

Cause man the purpose of the block is exactly to affect your LTFT/STFT. It reduces the reading of the MAF. So dont search for air finding a way.

No way your truck will run lean in closed loop. Forget that. Yes your fuel trim will show that fuel is add by the fuel injection in closed loop. But no way your running lean cause the AFR is corrected by the FI. Yes in open loop the AFR will be leaner than OEM, euh it's the purpose of the ecoblock.

And an other thing, no way your trims or the AFR (closed loop) will be out of the range that can handle the ECU without throwing a check engine.

You're issuing conclusions but you are not equiped to read the trims and the AFR.

Sorry man, but for me there is few things you are not understanding.

 

I received mine the other day and installed it last night. Really easy install and the new o-ring they have added worked perfect. I noticed a couple of changes in how the truck drove this morning (good changes). I will give an update after I have log some miles on this. I usually average around 17-18 mpg.

 

I know nothing about STFT or LTFT and have read through this entire thread over the course of a couple weeks. I may be forgetting something I have read so bear with me.

Toyota would no doubt jump at the opportunity to be able to advertise this 11 yr old drivetrain as being 1-2mpg better. If they are choosing not to design the MAF sensor and configure the settings in a way that will achieve the results provided by this block, why is that? I'm not against this mod at all and am very close to buying one, but I hope to be driving this truck 20 years from now and saving a few bucks on gas is not my foremost concern. I'm more concerned with ongoing reliability. Are there regulations that Toyota has to adhere to, to keep things in a super-safe operating range but those regulations are proven to be super conservative? I'm not doubting the terrific results people are getting. I know trucks can be improved from stock and the design crew doesn't always know best (insert countless examples here), but there must be a clear reason why Toyota doesn't design the truck to run in the way the block will cause. What is it, and why is it silly? Thanks

 

I hear detonation at that speed. Which led me to call a friend of mine that is a Toyota Tech. He grabbed his Tech Stream and we went for a drive. I have a confirmed lean condition at that speed causing detonation. I asked him what the LTFT and he said it was all in +. Which means it was throwing as much fuel to make a correction and it wasn't enough to.

I'm not done diaging it. It is just one data point. But I think it is important to know what your fuel trims are before and after a mod the changes those trims.

I have plenty of experience diaging lean conditions I tune LS engine for shits and giggles.

 

I didn't say it didn't throw a CEL.

I said from what I was able to diag the block wasn't the unmetered air leak. I said it went away when I went back to stock by removing the block.

I have ordered 2 new o-rings to swap out with mine to verify that my o-rings aren't the issue. I had a truck in the shop once that was lean as could be found there was an issue with the air tube on the filter side of the MAF sensor. It caused enough disturbance in the air flow to screw up the MAF readings. I am going to pull the intake and air apart tomorrow and have a see.

 

Tech Stream and a Toyota tech riding shot gun.

 

Why j, not trying to be a d*** here, but having a lean conditions and being all at + doesn't really give any real information. If your engine was at max lean condition to the point of where the ECM could no longer compensate It would throw a CEL or record a fault. Anyone working for Toyota, Mercedes and even jiffy lube can grab a scan tool give you a little information, but that doesn't mean they know what they are doing. Ask your tech what he remembers as far as the lean numbers go, if he remembers, since you guys are friends, he will give you a number, because the number is important not how lean he assumes it is and how much fuel is being spit out by the injectors.

You might also want to consider changing your term "diaging" to the professional term "diagnosing" if you want anyone to take you seriously on your personal diagnosing experience. Just food for thought.

You are probably that rare one in a thousand case that needs to return the product because your personal experience and knowledge of a modern engine may damage the reputation of this product.

 

toyota doesn't do stuff like this because of how they have it right now it is acting as a universal safe guard for everyone and everywhere that buys a tacoma. Some in high elevations, some low etc. All conditions are different, so they had to create a universal application. i guess i kind of just repeated myself lol