WS transmission fluid is garbage . Get it out of your transmission now

Very interesting and really good to hear. What's really weird is that Mobil makes a WS compatible fluid (Mobil ATF™ 3324) but they are marketing it in China.

One can only wonder why they don't officially have a product that meets the spec. for the U.S. market.

 

You're probably right!

 

Honestly I am tempted to use something else than WS fluid from Toyota (its crazy expensive) my problem is when it comes to Honda and Toyota they are build so different than everything else that unless you use their fluid you can't get that transmission to last.

 

I'm not sure where you are coming from with this statement.
The automatic in a 2nd gen Tacoma is larger than most Honda Engine/Transaxle assemblies.
IMHO Honda does not equal Toyota in the durability of their products.
Does Honda even make a truck? I don't know because I didn't waste any time looking.
Even the tweenies around here burn up the motor long before the transmissions in those Hondas.
Could you point me in the direction of these Toyota transmissions that don't last?

 

Toyota WS used oil analysis

Just figured I'd toss this in here. Roughly 50K on the fluid after I had it 'flushed' at the dealership in Hawaii. I don't think it shows shear unless you see that by analyzing the numbers and I'm not even sure how to dig into that (and the Blackstone "average" is 17K). I replaced it with Valvoline Maxlife with no issues or noticeable improvements so far.

 

Viscosity looks good to me, based on Toyota specs WS starts at 5.4 cSt @100°C. It has sheared down to 5.19, according to blackstone. They used to say change it when it shears down by 25%, but for WS that would be 4.05 cSt... Imo that's way too thin to provide adequate film strength/protection. I'd be interested to see a UOA of maxlife with a similar mileage and usage to see how it compares to WS. From everything I've seen it seems like WS holds up well despite being a low viscosity fluid. I've seen a few analysis' of T-IV that has sheared down to a viscosity that required changing in as few as 30,000 miles.

 

After reading this thread other than guy who posted oil analysis this reads like a global warming convention.

I am close to 55k and looking to do ATF change. Dealer quoted me $499.

Might just stick with toyota fluid if I can find a good price on it.

 

I charge $180.00 for a complete flush using the OEM fluid.

Definitely shop around if they're charging $499 for just the trans service...

 

That's a really good price

 

It'll take me a few years but I might run a UOA on the Maxlife at the point if someone doesn't have it posted already. I'm not for or against Toyota WS, the Maxlife was just cheaper and more convenient with decent reviews on BITOG.

That was basically my thought which is why I ran a UOA and posted it. Too much talk and not enough hard data.

Definitely shop around (I paid ~$200 at the dealership for a flush) or do it yourself if you can. There's a really good write up on here that I used. You basically drain and fill then remove the trans cooler line so it pushes out the old via the oil pump then you pump an equivalent amount back in the trans. With how easy it is you can go with the old school 30K fluid changes or bump up to whatever interval you're comfortable with.

 

Sorry guys, I don't hang around here as much as in the past.

Like Gearcruncher that started this topic, I was less than impressed with the Toyota WS fluid. I agree with him that they promote the fluid as synthetic and nothing I found based on how the fluid is made indicates that.

Also, the fluid showed nothing special except it being a lower viscosity which may be to improve mileage. The transmission has been around a long time, and is so similar to earlier versions that used the non WS fluid, that there was no hard evidence that a low viscosity fluid that does not handle heat well and suffers chemical breakdown could be good.

On 4-26-2012 I accomplished a drain, flush and refill with Mobil 1 ATF. The mileage was at 22709. This mileage is well below the original 100k or even the updated 60k. Immediately after (within a few miles) it was apparent the shifting was smoother, the gear selecter was no longer notchy and over the truck seemed smoother and happier.

Fast forward to today, 6-26-2015, the fluid is over three years old. The mileage now is at 48599. The transmission is still working fine. Could I drop the pan and see a huge failure of metal. Sure, but certainly doubt that.

Total miles on the fluid is 25890 and three years of use.

I do run a remote ATF cooler and no fluid runs through the radiator or aux oem cooler. I also installed a remote spin on filter in the return line to the transmission. I run a scangauge II and have never seen temps above 165f in the pan.

If anyone else runs a scangauge II, set it up and monitor the temp inside the transmission, I believe the second sensor is torque converter outlet temp. This is where the heat comes from and while the temp varies constantly, it sees very high peak temps. The original poster Gearcruncher talks a lot about how Toyota WS fails with heat.

The next major service will be somewhere after 50k miles. While early, I plan to replace all fluids again. None with Toyota products. Coolant flush and refill, trans flush and refill, rear end drain and refill, probably will redo power steering again (Mobil 1 ATF), and flush the brakes again. The one item I do expect failure soon will be the front wheel bearings.

If I remember, I will not the specifics for ambient temps and trans fluid temps today.

Have fun.

PK

 

man this thread should just die, as it is chock full of misinformation and clickbait scare tactics

fact: Aisin Seiki is owned by Toyota group
Aisin recommends this specific WS fluid
there is no conspiracy that 'there is a better fluid out there'
there is no conspiracy to make the transmission fail somehow and cost you more money,
therefore making Toyota and Aisin richer

if there is any monkey business at all it is the government regulations requiring specific mpg
or efficiency ratings and that dictates a lot about what materials the bands and clutches
can be made from and to be compatible with certain viscosity fluids

stay with WS is always the correct answer
stay with what is written in the Toyota manuals, that is always the correct answer

 

Cool story bro.

The only factory scare tactics I've seen come from Toyota. The record is clear for those that do the research. There are plenty of proven affordable market alternatives to Toyota WS.

 

Thanks for checking in. Why did you use Mobile 1 ATF? While it might be working okay for you, officially (according to Mobile 1 Oil) it does not meet the Toyota WS standard.

So I'm curious why you selected that for your replacement.

 

Wow. What a train wreck.
While this mantra may work for you, I respectfully disagree.
Thankfully, there are other options than blindly following the rails of the manufacturer's profit stream.
I guess they got everything right on the first truck they made, and the only reason to change is to follow the style trends; no need for safety recalls or tsb's.
To take it a step further, then no need for spare parts; just replace the wear items and fluids and away you go.

 

^

ya OK...so you and your armchair research into this matter
is better than all these (pasted below) entities research.

I get it, you all here, are smarter than all these companies engineers. rock on

• Daihatsu Motor Co., Ltd.
• Hino Motors, Ltd.
• Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd.
• Suzuki Motor Corp.
• Mitsubishi Motors Corp.
• Mazda Motor Corp.
• Isuzu Motors Ltd.
• Nissan Motor Co., Ltd.
• UD Trucks Corp.
• Honda Motor Co., Ltd.
• Mitsubishi Fuso Truck & Bus Corp.
• Iseki & Co., Ltd.
• Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Ltd.
• Kubota Corporation
• Yanmar Co., Ltd.
• Komatsu Utility Co., Ltd.
• Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd.
• Toyota Tsusho Corp.
• Tacti Corp.
• Central Automotive Products Ltd.
• TMY Corp.
• Meiji Sangyo Co.
• Empire Motor Co., Ltd.
• SPK Corp.
• Toyota Technocraft Co., Ltd.
• J-TACS Corp.
• General Motors Company
• Ford Motor Company
• Chrysler Group LLC
• Volvo Car Corp.
• BMW AG
• Renault S.A.S.
• Daimler AG
• Hyundai Motor Group
• SAIC Motor Co., Ltd.
• Anhui Jianghuai Automobile Co., Ltd.
• Guangzhou Automobile Group Co., Ltd.
• Great Wall Motor Co., Ltd.
• Tianjin FAW Toyota Motor Co., Ltd.
• Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd.

 

Ha. Very cute.
I presume it never occurred to you that many of the members here, including myself, are engineers, and that if there is a technical question that is outside of our expertise, we communicate with other engineers, and find the answers to our questions from people that have the expertise.
In this link, the Blue Crane was built by Bigge, our company worked on the drive and track system. CBI (Chicago Bridge and Iron) is a former employer, and is handling the erection of the reactor; had I desired to relocate to the Midwest, I probably would have been working on this as I was deeply involved in SGRP (steam generator rebuild project) for nuclear facilities. Westinghouse, who has the overall project, is where my best intern is now working. He earned his PE in EE, and has been working on this project for years.
http://gizmodo.com/americas-first-new-nuclear-plant-in-30-years-is-well-un-1713844276

One of the companies not on your list is Mack Trucks, which is actually a part of the Volvo Group. Being a local company some friends and relatives are engineers and product managers.

So, do I think I'm better than the engineers at those companies? No. I KNOW I am the SAME engineer as in those other companies, and that when it comes to consumer products, the economic rules dominate the design.

 

oh this site is full of engineers, and numbskulls, and sometimes both at the same time live in the same body

but I too am a scientist and I solve big problems all day long...and I have a good grasp of not only
materials science, but also 'the big picture' and how major corporations work and what hoops they
need to jump through to remain effective and profitable entities, and how it all boils down to an
end product or result. for this topic...there are zero compelling reasons to use something other than what toyota
recommends in the auto trannies. pay yer friggin 5-10 extra bucks for it

 

For a 'scientist' your certainly have a strange way of being objective about this topic.
Additionally, not everyone has the confidence, or sense of humor, to brush off the belittling comments, so I would recommend a different course, unless your goal is simply to be inflammatory.
As for 'zero compelling reasons to use something other than what Toyota recommends', I would like to point out that the ONLY compelling reason to use WS is that it is recommended by Toyota. I have not seen ANY evidence that WS has features or formulations that are REQUIRED by the transmission in the Tacoma. None.
There are many manufactures of transmission fluid which indicate compatibility with WS fluid. You can look online, or go to Walmart, and find variety of brands that are compatible, so there is no great mystery to the mechanics of this fluid.
So my question to you is: Other than the 'recommended by Toyota' aspect, why do I need to use the Type WS transmission fluid?

 

Dang this thread becoming more about what people do for a living than why WS fluid is bad.

I am a chemist but in no way does that make me an expert oil scientist. I understand how to analyze the data but have never been involved with formulation.

Can this thread just simply inform us on alternative compatible and certified ATF other than WS fluid.

I want a fluid that is 50% or more less expensive than WS fluid that is equivalent or better. I want a fluid that will keep my transmission running the same.

If WS fluid will kill my transmission where is the class action lawsuit to sign up for?

I don't want a fluid that promises to make my truck shift better or like butter. If that is the case than I probably waited to long to service my transmission.

So in conclusion I am no expert oil scientist or expert mechanic. I come to these boards reading stories about DIY folks who have some good insight.

Thanks Crom for the snapshots of valvoline labels.