WS transmission fluid is garbage . Get it out of your transmission now

Exactly!
I'm roughly a year into using the Valvoline with no issues.
Next time I see a bottle of atf that is labeled as WS compatible I will take pictures. I can recall that even Super tech has a compatible fluid.
Apologies for having to post my resume to quell the petulance.

 

In the most simple terms, when I did the fluid replacement there was only one non Toyota WS fluid available and Max Life was not WS on the bottle at the time.

While researching what qualities and what qualifies a fluid as WS, it became common to see that the testing of fluids and also the approval to get the ratings for some fluids involved approval from the oem for the truck or transmission and came at a significant expense to those companies submitting the fluid.

At the time I did the fluid change to Mobil 1 ATF, the M1 was not WS rated but was Toyota T IV rated on the website and on the bottle. This is the Toyota approved spec for the transmission in the earlier transmissions prior to WS fluid. I learned WS is considered a low viscosity fluid. I also learned that many of these new fluids like WS are critical with specialty transmissions like CVT styles. Regardless at the time it was very confusing and WS was a hot topic on the internet with some facts and a lot of insecurity to try other fluids, even those stating WS compatible.

Also during this time, fluid manufacturers were possibly unsure of these new WS ratings, and the new Dexron VI ratings. Redline had stated D6 ATF was meeting the specs of WS then rescinded that to say D4 was the meet the spec equivalent. But if you check today, D4 ATF is no longer a WS spec fluid, but the D6 ATF is again. No where does it say approved or tested, just simply meets the spec.

Maxlife is only recommended by Valvoline, does not say it is approved, where they show other products as approved. FWIW, Maxlife has a huge range of specs it is approved for, everything from Dexron II to Dexron VI and even Toyota Type IV and WS.

There is a lot of discussion on if any aftermarket fluid has been truly certified to the WS standard. From what I read, in order to truly be WS fluid or Dexron 6, the process involves the transmission or car / truck manufacturer validating if the spec is met. From the sound of it, not many aftermarket oil companies truly accomplish this test. Guessing they simply reverse engineer or if a spec is available, they do in house testing.

It has been posted in several places that ExxonMobil makes the WS fluid Aisin and Toyota use and sell. The spec is JWS 3324. Page 1 of this shows that.
http://www.kd5byb.net/Tundra/ATF WS MSDS1.pdf
Here is the spec sheet.
http://www.mobil.com/China-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_ATF_3324.aspx

Here in the US, Mobil does not even offer a JWS 3324 or Toyota WS fluid.

Is Mobil 1 ATF acceptable, maybe. Is it approved or rated as a WS fluid. No.

Those reading these forums and others can gather their own ideas and thoughts.

Now 3 years later there are many choices for labels that read Toyota WS. Ironically some of those list many other specs. Is it possible the M1 is too slippery inside my transmission, maybe. Is it possible the M1 will work fine and with the slightly more viscous rating protect gears and parts better. Maybe. Is Toyota WS actually made by ExxonMobil and why would one of the leading refined oil producers not sell a Toyota WS ATF in the US or what seems to be only to the oem.

I have no documents or webpage links to justify why today this is a good or bad choice. Time changes many things, M1 atf is no longer even a Toyota T IV rated product.

Run what makes you feel comfortable, and for most it seems it must be a Toyota bottle of WS fluid. That's fine, I respect that.

PK

 

In my opinion that's fine, but many people have posted all over the internet that Amsoil qualifies the fluid as WS, so maybe it is not truly tested and approved to the JWS3324 spec.

As a consumer, all of this confusion can be no fun.

PK

 

As an OEM of similar equipment I can tell you that selection or development of hydraulic fluid has criteria such as viscosity, ph, fda approval, detergent properties, thermal integrity, shear, dielectric and material compatibity to name the big ones. Toyota has prudently gone to a single type of atf for all products, and one aspect that we do not require is the dielectrics that the Prius would need for the electric motor windings in the transmission, which is also a hot topic of the Prius forums.
Once the criteria is met, then failure analysis is used, by analyzing the fluid and inspecting components for wear as the hot fluid will either strip material or bond to components.
I'm at the point of waiting for failure analysis, since there has been little if any reports of transmission component failure associated to the fluid.

 

Two month ago, I created a new thread which lists verified alternatives to Toyota WS fluid, take a look:

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...a-ws-atf-automaitc-transmission-fluid.373083/

 

Not to defend my use of M1 several years and miles ago, the key words may be approved alternatives. The past has shown that even though documents and labels say Toyota WS, the facts are some may be tested to the spec and others may not.

Having it say WS on the bottle though is no doubt better than not saying it on the bottle.

Wishful that Gearcruncher would return and give an update.

PK

 

@gearcruncher ^^


Any updates?

 

Doesn't hurt to try...
I've been waiting for a response too, I imagine he hasn't heard back from the mfg's, or we would have heard something, I hope...

 

Honestly, you don't need to research much to find real world posts of vehicles with no abuse where the owners did their own ATF change. Most have changed prior to the 100k or 60k interval and most reported the fluid was dark brown to black. These are not all recent posts and was one reason I had little interest to use WS.

There is rumor that the fluid spec has changed to keep it red longer, but like most of this, no hard data to support it.

PK

 

I use AMSOil in everything, I believe it's the best available. Their ATF is WS. I'm sure there is hard data to support this. I found the hard data for gear lube on here.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...cient-synthetic-automatic-transmission-fluid/

 

Less chance of legal or explaining if a warranty issue came u].
PK

 

This thread isn't confusing at all

Please correct me if my understanding is wrong:

Toyota WS fluid doesn't last as long as it claims
You can use WS fluid just fine but replace it sooner than required
Valvoline is a good alternative and won't void your warranty
Fluid change interval with Valvoline is.....?

 

No fluid has gone through the ws certification, that I know of. So "legally", warranty is ws fluid only.

 

Redline MT90 FTW!

 

I'm gonna say no, as it doesn't silence my squeaky throwout bearing.

 

I am still here and enjoying all the excellent input . Like most of you , I spend most of my days at work . My issue is finding the hours needed to piece together the information you guys are looking for as stated when I started the post . I lost an important behind the scenes contributor to this post when Charlie past away earlier this year . More to come when I get a few days off

 

Gearcruncher, not sure which Charlie you mean, but sorry to hear about it.

PK

 

I would agree with this. That is also why some fluids are no longer rated for a certain spec. Mobil 1 ATF for example was previously rated as Toyota T IV. Now it is not. Possibly the rating expired, and they decided not to requalify the the fluid. Possibly they made a change to the fluid and it no longer qualifies. Certainly possible but not likely.

PK

 

A recent post asked about my use of Mobil 1 ATF in my 2010 Tacoma. As best I could tell at the time, and Gearcruncher indicated this in an early post, the internals in this WS fluid transmission are not really different form previous models that used Type IV fluid. At the time, Mobil 1 ATF was Type IV on the label and has been in there a while. This transmission may be less critical to the fluid spec than others and Toyota possibly went with thinner fluid to up mileage and promote the longer fluid replacement interval, AND standardize the fluids carried by the dealerships minimizing technician errors when servicing, or requiring various service equipment.

PK

 

I'm not an engineer nor do I have a technical background. Here's my simple, common sense thought on all this.

I don't know the total # of members here on TW, but I would feel safe guessing that's it's a small fraction of all people who actually own Tacoma's. I would also guess that for all of the "non TW" owners, most people are following what the owners manual says and aren't changing the tranny fluid. I've not seen any mass media stories of Tacoma trannies failing all across the US & world.

When I recently inquired about flushing my tranny at 60K, a certified Toyota tech told me that they rarely do flushes and they've seen many, many Tacoma's on the plus side of 200K miles that all have original fluid.

Having said that....I think I'll have mine flushed at 90K.

Just my 2 cents.....