General Discussion and BS thread -Safe Haven

For me, I drive cars for 8+ years (depreciating liability blah blah blah). I'm getting what I want and I'll probably get the majority of that $4k back when I sell it some day.

 

The dealers are crazy. I was at one today and they won't budge on price. I mean they are good trucks but damn...

 

Part of the problem is guys who go in and pay these prices. The Dealerships know guys will pay so they keep the prices jacked.

Bottom feeding Stealerships.

 

Ah car buying. The last business left where customers whine and bitch if they don't pay less than sticker.

I know a few dealers who have gone to standardized pricing. No, they aren't selling for MSRP, but they do have a number on every car and they won't move from it. I don't blame them. If you can keep your sales high enough and go to that system where you know what you are making off each car why not sell cars that way.

 

One of the worst investments you can throw money at...I wouldn't even call it an investment. You loose money as soon as you drive it off the lot.

Shoot, I have been looking at regular cab F250's to toss a camper on...finding decent used ones for $10K....Hell of a lot better than paying $35K for a new one.

 

Meh. It's all in how you look at it. A couple who are good friends of my wife and I just bought their first new car. They were adamant that they'd never have a car loan and never own a new car because of all the money that would waste. They laughed at us and most of our friends when we'd buy a new vehicle. Then they ran into a streak of bad used cars. They were something like $8K in credit card debt trying to fix a 2008 mini by the end of it. Now they own a 2015 Chevrolet Trax (yuck) and have a $23K loan on top of there debt just to have a reliable car.

If they had of bought new and planned to keep it for 5 years odds are they wouldn't have that extra $8K to pay off. Not to mention the savings they wasted on that mini.

 

Vehicle prices are insane. I have many issues with all of this. I will try to make this quick.

1. They give you next to nothing for your trade. KBB at best. Then put it on their lot for double. This tells me, if I am looking at a used vehicle, they gave the last schmuck next to nothing, KBB at best.
Example: I was offered $5k for my 1st gen recently. That is KBB trade in value.
They stated they are selling 1st gens like crazy. Had 1 on their lot. For $13k. Similar condition. More miles.

2. Wont budge on prices. Now in this previous scenario, that is quite ridiculous. Especially when a damn Ford F150 supercrew is priced at damn near $50k new.


People paying these prices are killing this. After these companies shipped jobs out of America, for cheaper labor, their prices go up. ??? Don't give me the speech about safety features, and yada yada yada. The companies have been forced to adhere to high safety standards, by the government, not the consumers. That cost is passed on to the consumer, at 100%??? Seriously....vehicles can only be so safe, with 16 year old kids with next to nothing for training blasting down highways.

 

Well, they did buy a Mini...and now a Chevy... doesn't sound like they are good decision makers.

I have my reservations about buying a used Ford, mostly will pass...and just ditch the slide-in camper idea altogether and just keep it simple.

I haven't had a vehicle loan in 18 years, once you start paying cash for vehicles, even if you can pay cash for a new vehicle....you tend to become a tight wad.

 

It is because of the ease of getting a loan and the length of of those terms now that people get... loans can be had for 84 months plus.

http://blogs.wsj.com/totalreturn/2015/06/01/more-car-buyers-take-long-loans/

Willing to bet if the terms were more strict, prices would come down, but the way it is now...they are seeing how far they can push it. I am bracing for another economic down turn, think the last one was bad....

 

You want more than KBB then sell it yourself. No body, not even private sale, pays more than KBB unless they are desperate for that vehicle. Tacoma's do command a premium, especially first gens, because supply doesn't meet demand.

The dealer has overhead to pay and money to make. If you don't want to pay his overhead or contribute more to his profits then sell it yourself and reap the benefits of owning a desirable truck.

???

My Ford dealer moved about $9K off MSRP. If they aren't budging then find another dealer. Basic factory incentives give dealers something like $5K to play with on most Ford trucks. After that there are more dealer specific sales related discounts and programming that the dealer can use to beat even that offer.

If you pay MSRP on a Ford you are doing something wrong. Most people aren't. Actually I'd argue with things like the internet and social media fewer people are paying MSRP for anything than ever before.

Ford still builds there trucks in the USA. GM and Toyota don't. Everybody, not just auto companies, has gone to supplying parts from the lowest bidder that can meet the factory specifications. We, the consumer, want all of our mutual funds to make over 8% per year which places extreme pressure on companies to post huge profits and attract large investments. If you like making money on the market you are to blame for forcing jobs out of the USA. Period. Don't point at the companies for doing what we wanted them to do an make the most money possible. The system is broken and I'm not sure how to fix it yet keep the same values we've had about money that we've had for the last 50 years.

As for safety watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMK1WZjP7g

Companies have done a kick ass job making things safer for every one of us who might get hit by that 16 year old.

 

I agree. This is the first vehicle I intend to pay down to zero and keep. Before I would trade off at around that point. I'm sure not having payments will make me stingier about taking payments on again.

 

Buy low sell high.

If you have a better way of running a business for profit, let me know.

 

I thought Toyota DID build their trucks in the US. Trust me, there is no.way. I will pay $50k for a freaking truck. INSANE. Even at $41k, that is absolutely nuts. Obviously, I didn't buy anything, so, I'm not doing anything wrong, lol. I also couldn't care less about the cooked books on Wall Street except its probably about to get really ugly.

As far as where I point the finger for blame, I feel it rest nicely on the shoulders of the decision makers at those companies, who chose to buckle to the mighty (not-so-mighty) dollar. Correct principles and values went by the wayside, just because they could. How does that saying go? "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."? Yeah, that's the one. This has resulted in a dwindling GDP, fewer good paying jobs, and vehicle payments looking like a house payment. @Sterdog, you can justify it all you want, it still doesn't make it right. As far as safety goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of....Maybe the driving tests and training should be held to a higher standard.

@xJuice I get profiting. If you'll look around a little bit, you'll find that there are industries reporting RECORD PROFITS during a time in which the country's economics have been in the shit can. ? How does that work?



Admittedly, I'm not an economics guru. I simply don't see $40k - $50k worth of value in a stinking truck. Any of them.

 

I was more concerned with trade in/used car values. The high price of these new trucks I can agree with you on.

 

Think as I get older, I have become cheap SOB.

The whole reason I have been looking at 3/4 ton trucks so I can get slide-in camper, because nothing from Toyota can handle the weight...owning something other than a Toyota doesn't appeal to me. Prolly shit-can the whole slide-in camper idea so I can stick with Toyota. Would save me money as well...(there I go being cheap again)

 

Toyota builds plenty of Tacoma's in Mexico. GM builds the Sierra and Silverado in Mexico.

Do you have a mutual fund? A company paid investment plan? Then you are driving the companies to make those record profits. That's the only way they can get investments. That's all I'll say on that.

I'm not saying what happened is right, but pointing the finger at the decision makers isn't really logical when we drove them to make those decisions.

 

People make the misconception about just the upfront costs they are getting about half back (depending on the area). You also have to take in to effect that MPG hit, the increase in maintenance costs, the added insurance costs over the years insuring a more expensive vehicle; it all adds up. I have never understood the premise of buying a 4x4 if you absolutely don't need it just impress an image on others. Running around with a 4x4 platinum on 20" wheels and street tires won't make anyone think you are more manly, more like the opposite in trying to impress people too hard; like being a 40 year old running around in tap out and affliction gear.

If you never go off road and it is just to commute in a southern city daily then why buy it? For that one chance ever few years you might get some ice and everything is shut down regardless? You will spend more in gas, maintenance and insurance on top of losing another 2k (difference in resale for 2wd and 4wd roughly). People don't get wealthier by making poor financial decisions, you just have to weigh what you are honestly going to do with the truck and it if honestly will require 4wd. Shoot we lived years in Chicago and Minnesota and didn't need 4wd, now if you live in the out skirts or deal with steep surrounding hills yeah sure but city folk in a relatively flat area that is plowed timely nope.

Tyler

 

I am not economics guru either, but I do know the less I spend on a truck the more stays in my bank account...and the less I have to work...working less makes me happy.

Meh, vehicles are bullshit anyway...funny how we get all wound up about them...that whole car culture bullshit we have been fed, or even a wider scope...that whole consumerism materialism bullshit we have been fed.

Dunno, I used to be a work-a-halic....used to blow my money like no tomorrow...think I am finally figuring out less is more.

I Prolly shouldn't even post in the 3rd section, the new Taco is just repackaged gotta-have-it-latest-and-greatest-shiny BS...and the packaging isn't all that good looking either.

 

Actually, when N.A.F.T.A. was signed, no, I didn't have a mutual fund, or company paid investment plan. As a matter of fact, I didn't have one until about 10 years after that all took place. So I personally did NOT drive anyone to make any decision. Since having a mutual fund account and company paid investment plan, I have yet to hold a gun to any CEO's head and force him to make a morally poor decision to suffice a greedy populous.

 

It's pretty much a myth that 4WD consumes more gas then 2WD. It's basically about a 1-2% difference over the life of a vehicle if both vehicles spend most of the time in 2WD. That adds up to maybe a few hundred dollars from lot to grave. I agree with your point that it is a waste of money to someone using the truck to commute in a warmer climate, but if it snows regularly where you are 4WD is well worth the money. Even if the roads are plowed it's pretty embarrassing ending up stuck in a drift getting to work because you tried to save your pennies and bought a 2WD.