2nd Gen SAS and Much More - Built By Rebel

I actually prefer the catalytic transmission warmer.

 

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This

The hack job on the exhaust system was pretty bad. Besides...the links are way too short. That kit seems more suitable for the 1st gen tacomas.

However...Some people, in older tacomas, have sucessfully placed the upper link on the driver side because the exhaust is on the passenger side - especially true on 4cyl 1st gen tacomas.

If you read the thread at the RST forum, doing a full re-build was the truck owner's decision. RST was not pushing for it, and they were clear that the intention of the thread was not to bash other shops. Initially, RST was going to tweak some things and salvage as much as possible. But the owner insisted in a full re-build.

True. If the kit was designed for a 1st gen tacoma, which is smaller than the newer trucks, then the link geometry would be off. From the pics those links look too short for that truck. The axle choice was questionable too, but the kit used only works with a Diamond axle. These newer trucks are too heavy for that small 8" diff.

 

I read the thread on rst.

To me it looks like when the owner actually saw everything that was wrong and realized the truck was flat out hacked together it was an easy decision to start over from scratch.

I'm not bashing I only asked how they felt about rst redoing all of there work. Like come on the piggy back resi on the rear shocks was hitting the u bolts at full flex. How do you let a truck leave your shop with that happening.

 

That's when it comes down to do what you say and say what you do. Excellence starts with the top management folks down at the core of every company, if the shop doesn't give a shit enough that your tires are hitting your shock resis, why should you?


If the owner chose to fix the issues or tolerate substandard work, that will make or break a company in the long run.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were bashing!

And you are right...exhaust hack job aside...shocks hitting crap around, wow, that's just a basic thing to watch for.

Yeah...I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that the shop owner(s) allowed the truck to leave the shop in that condition.

 

Curiously waiting for a rebel offroad response now

 

TacomaWorld Members,


In light of recent news that a vehicle which was originally modified by our shop has been taken to Wyatt at Rock Solid Toys, we feel it’s necessary to give a response to the situation.

First and foremost, for those who are doubting our ability to build such vehicles and have them work to their full potential, please take an in depth look at the amount of builds we’ve done in the past, including a full solid axle and link conversion with coilovers on a late model Duramax 2500. Although we also work on many different types of vehicles here at the shop, the two most common that come through our doors is the Jeep JK and the Tacoma.

With that said, this was our first solid axle conversion on a 2nd generation Tacoma. We consulted All Pro Off Road for the best way to go about this build, and we were pointed in the direction of their 3-link system which we were told will indeed fit a 2nd generation 6 lug Tacoma. After many conversations with All Pro and Rock Solid Toys, the end result of this build is the best rendition of All Pro’s 3-link system installed. The vehicle was taken out to a mild local trail with the customer’s permission to test the modifications on dirt. The suspension system, ride control, steering, transfer case shifting, driveshafts, brakes, and new drivetrain worked as expected. At that time, we did not see any contact at the catalytic converter, nor did we see any contact at on the rear shock reservoir. Again, this is a customer’s vehicle, and pushing it to the limits is for the customer to do. Any final adjustments would be made on a follow up visit. Regrettably, we were never contacted to schedule one.

The choice of changing from the axles we installed to Currie Rock Jock 60’s after leaving our shop was purely that of the customer’s. The choice of changing the transfer case from an Atlas 4 speed to a Toyota transfer case was purely that of the customer’s. If there was any doubt on whether or not the modifications performed were not up to the highest standard, the customer should have contacted us first. The first step to fixing an issue is knowing there is one, and we were never notified.

There are a few legitimate concerns that we could have addressed, had the customer brought the truck to us, including the control arm contacting the catalytic converter and the rear shock reservoir contacting the leaf spring. Even after Wyatt saw these problems, we would have 100% taken the vehicle back in and made it right, and that offer still stands. A mistake was made in the build, and we are 100% responsible in making it right for the customer. We are regretful to find out through another thread on another forum that the inherent issues were never brought up to us to give us a chance to mend them. These are highly modified vehicles, and things are not always perfect 100% of the time. We only wish we had the opportunity to make them right and keep our integrity in the eyes of the customer.

Customer satisfaction is very much so our first priority. From giving complimentary rides to those dropping off vehicles here to taking professional photos and creating memoir “Build Books” for the customer to keep at home as a keepsake, we strive to make every experience at Rebel Off Road one that is unmatched in quality and satisfaction. As mentioned, had any issues been reported, we would have brought the vehicle in to address them. We feel privileged to receive the opportunity of earning the business of each Tacoma World member and we do not take your questions or concerns lightly. Please feel free to PM me directly on TacomaWorld, send me an e-mail at matt@rebeloffroad.com, or call me directly at (949) 544-1541.

Cheers,

Matt

 

Well theres the problem

 

Yeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppppp

 

So you didn't think that it was necessary to verify component clearance? How does that make any sense, especially on a solid axle swap? Was the only purpose of the forklift to get some good pictures? What a pathetic excuse.

If the customer is paying you thousands upon thousands of dollars isn't your responsibility to use/recommend equipment that can withstand the loads it would see? How did you come to the decision that an 8" axle in the front was an acceptable idea? The first gear of the A750F is 3.52, the V-6 generates 266 ft-lbs of torque, and with a transfer case ratio of 4.7:1 goes to about 4400 ft-lbs of torque. When split evenly between both axles, the pinion sees about 2200 ft-lbs. While a few minutes of Internet sleuthing haven't revealed to me what the input torque rating of a Toyota 8" ring and pinion is, the front Dana 44 (8.5" ring gear) has an input limit of about 1930 ft-lbs. When combined with any shock loading that may be experienced along with such a deep gear ratio an 8" ring gear should've seemed like an unacceptable option. What exactly did your research consist of for this build?

 

Rebel offroad is a very reputable company and does stand behind their builds and services.
Like I said in my threads on RST I didn't want to bash anyone. Just wanted to point out that the kit used was not the correct kit for this build.
I don't know the conversations that rebel had with All Pro in choosing their kit but when the truck was brought to me to fix a pesky check engine light I was asked by the owner to give it a once over. After I did I gave him my recommendations which included possibly contacting Rebel which he choose not to do.
I even told him to keep the axles and t case but the more he thought about it and the more he saw online the more he wanted to make a switch.
I fixed the check engine light for him which was simple for me since I was the one to create the kit for the speed sensor for the 2gen Tacos that upon looking back was a simple mistake others have made when putting this kit on for the first time.
Rebel did call me on this issue however the problem wasn't covered on the phone and they had done everything I told them too.
After a short time they contacted me to ask if I would look at it to see what it may be and I said sure I'd be glad too. It was at that time the owner asked me to take a close look at it. He is a very nice guy but just wasn't happy with how it ended up and choose to take a different route.
I've seen rebels work in person and they do great work. In fact it was some of their work I've seen at the off road expo that has inspired some of mine. Why some of these issues occurred I'm not sure. I wasn't there and don't want to speculate.
I wanted to merely point out that I feel this is not the correct kit for these 2nd gen Taco's.

I do have to say though that when I first drove it it drove very nice. Steering was light for a truck on 40's and no hydro assist. There was no nose dive when coming to a stop and drove generally good.
We will be using some of the link points on the frame in our build but will move the top link to the passenger side away from the drive shaft and move the exhaust back to its original location.
A thousands things happen in a build of a truck and sometimes things get missed. Lord knows I've had my fair share of issues.
At this time my concern is to make sure the customer is happy and I know that Rebel would have done all they could to do the same thing if given the chance.

 

The Diamond front axle that was used in this truck is one that is based on the FJ 80 which is actually heavier than the 2nd gen Taco's. With 37" tires it could survive under this truck just fine being that it's the high pinion version and thus is driving on the true drive side of the gears and not the coast side. Not to mention it has hardened axle shafts and all the other goodies Diamond puts in them. Now with 40's your really pushing it and was pointed out but as Rebel said earlier in the build thread, by the time we saw the pictures the build was much further along.
I like to build my trucks in over kill fashion. I want to be able to wheel in AZ and drive back to Huntington Beach without issues. That's why I've choosen the axles I run.
Can the Diamond survive under the 2nd gen. Sure. With the right tire combo and gearing it can. I just wouldn't use it with 40" tires on these trucks. Nor would I use it with 40's under the FJ 80 although many have with great success. But that's just me.

 

Always a gentleman, Wyatt.

 

Thank you.