3rd Gen Concerns

IKR! LMAO

Red herrings and ad hominems all over the muthafuckin place. Great for intimidation aren't they.

 

Oh trust me, the best is yet to come. BlueT hasn't even shown you his final form yet!

 

Are you talking about this quote.... ? Show me in that quote where it says that drum brakes are better and that is why they are chosen over disc brakes?

 

Ill bet if that 95% of test drivers didn't know they were driving a truck with rear drums. That they wouldn't notice the difference.

 

Thats right, we haven't started creationism vs evolution ....yet ...

 

Oh I do read responses...

 

It doesn't say that drum brakes are BETTER. I didn't say that they WERE better in every application. I am arguing that they are more than adequate. Adequate for heavy duty truck use as evidenced by continued use by the largest trucking fleet in the world. Adequate for rear axle use in passenger vehicles.

The entire excerpt that you requoted explains why Chad Mitts, who has an incentive to sell ADB's, explains 4 reasons why ADB's arent selected in the USA, compared to Europe, from his viewpoint. I'll digest it for you since I don't think you are understanding it. IT WAS YOUR SUPPOSITION THAT US fleets buy drums purely on purchase price and hence THE USA LAGS BEHIND THE REST OF THE WORLD, without explaining what the differences might be in motivation between US and non US fleet purchasers.
1. Europeans are forced to buy them, USA fleets have the choice, and their choice is drums.
2. ADB's require more intensive maintenance which cant be found along the typical rural truck repair areas. ( This scares the bejesus out of fleet managers AND drivers cause who is making money while truck is sitting in a bay for days at a time or being towed for several hundred dollars to a specialized repair center?)
3. A person who's motivation is to sell ADB's is admitting that the benefits of ADB's is diminished as overall tractor length increases. US uses much longer tractors than everywhere else.
4. Drums remain cheaper. You have to read the rest of the article to pull out the part where it mentions life cycle cost.

Now, this is from YOUR article...

One who’s staying with drums is Kirk Altrichter, vice president, maintenance for Crete Carrier Corp. “Cost and weight” argue against discs, he says. He wasn’t clear on price, but puts the weight penalty at 100 or more pounds per axle.
“We’re struggling constantly to take weight off,” he says. “The cost for that is $1.50 per pound — that’s a figure we use. So there’s not enough justification to make discs worth it. Drums meet the stopping distance but the jury’s still out as far as how they’re lasting. I don’t think there’s extra life.”
Air disc brakes might some day account for 25% of sales, says Ganaway. More bullish is Randy Petresh, vice president, technical services, at Haldex Commercial Vehicle Systems, which sells a variety of components for brakes and air systems. He thinks disc brake usage might go to 70% in 10 years. Even so, “There’s never going to be a complete conversion. There’s always going to be segments that will stick to drums no matter what. And cost — drums have been in production for 30, 40 years and tooling has been amortized, so drum-brake parts are dirt cheap.”
Parts pricing is one reason air drum brakes are popular among buyers of medium-duty trucks. “In Class 6 and 7, greater than half the buyers buy air brakes,” says Meritor’s Kay. “Some Class 5 buyers will spec air if they have other air systems on the truck, though the lower end of Class 5 use hydraulic discs. It depends on gross axle weight rating; there’s a point where hydraulic brakes just can’t do the job anymore, about 32,000 pounds.” Beefy drum brakes absorb heat and work better in many cases. INTERESTING EH?
“There are also parking concerns,” Kay continues. “Disc brake systems are more complex, and you don’t get the same power, so OEMs go with some kind of driveline brake.”

Now here is my words. If disks provided an advantage and the only difference was $800 - $3500 in purchase price, I think many, many more fleets would be using them. I can't speak for each and every trucker out there. I can just make an observation on what exists on the road today. Speculation on the reasons is just an amalgation on everything each individuals experiences day to day.

If drums are adequate enough for 80,000 lbs going up and down mountains, they are certainly up to the task of 9000#'s of Tacoma + Tacoma loaded trailer. Ergo, no need to go to rear disks. No need to keep up with the jones'. There is no mechanical or safety need to do it. Technology? There is no need to for flat panel TV distractors in any car and most have them. Technology? Judging by the general TW attitude towards our ABS systems, maybe that "evolution" wasn't an improvement either. The devil is in the details.

 

Ah, the Chewbacca defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwdba9C2G14

 

That's no fun now is it. lol

 

I'm glad someone is calling bluet out on his always loud and generally wrong conclusions. People who cruise by the site and don't know his reputation might, for lack of knowing any better, read a post of his and think that he actually knows what hes talking about.

 

FTFY

I work in the industry. This is a true statement. We are self insured. We have paid MILLIONS in insurance claims. If they really were that much better we would use them. We even own repair facilities that could do the work but still do not use them. An incremental increase in a $130k tractor is nothing if it meant saving in insurance.

 

All I see here is "Its all about money"
Here I will make an easier for you...
Find me scientific study (something like NHTSA did) that says drums are better, study that was made in atleast past 20 years (dont want to read about Model T drum brakes), and I will be happy to admit you are right...
That should be a proof that maybe drums are chosen for some unknown benefit.
I want scientific proof...

 

there are pro's and cons to each system, Toyota just has different outlook compared to your requirements.

 

Oh sweet, we have 2 threads on drum vs disc...

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/why-are-most-people-disappointed.359066/

 

Drums are weather proof and, on the rears, last longer under difficult conditions.

Better is an extremely subjective word for someone who thinks they can Science lol.

I don't see anyone disagreeing with your premise that Toyota uses rear drums to save a buck. To say that rear discs would dramatically improve the stopping distance on the Tacoma isn't something you can prove and the data out there says that, given a large majority of the brake force comes from the front brakes especially on a truck, any rear brake improvements would translate to a much smaller overall improvement than what would be expected. For towing the rear brake improvements would give improved stopping distances, but then again the Tacoma isn't toting a huge towing capacity either.

 

How many times do I have to tell you I'm not saying drums are better.
How many times do I have to tell you I'm not saying drums are better.
How many times do I have to tell you I'm not saying drums are better.
How many times do I have to tell you I'm not saying drums are better.
How many times do I have to tell you I'm not saying drums are better.
How many times do I have to tell you I'm not saying drums are better.

How many times do I have to say that disks on the rear provide little advantage and several disadvantage.
How many times do I have to say that disks on the rear provide little advantage and several disadvantage.
How many times do I have to say that disks on the rear provide little advantage and several disadvantage.
How many times do I have to say that disks on the rear provide little advantage and several disadvantage.
How many times do I have to say that disks on the rear provide little advantage and several disadvantage.
How many times do I have to say that disks on the rear provide little advantage and several disadvantage.
How many times do I have to say that disks on the rear provide little advantage and several disadvantage.
How many times do I have to say that disks on the rear provide little advantage and several disadvantage.
How many times do I have to say that disks on the rear provide little advantage and several disadvantage.

You said it yourself for at least one "UNKNOWN TO YOU" benefit. Drums are selected because they are cheaper. That was your statement. The trucking industry by your quoted references agrees that the trucking industry chooses them because they are cheaper.

Cheaper is a benefit.

Cheaper does not equal a decrease in capability anymore than buying a Murray lawnmower at Walmart means it's any different than buying the same Murray lawnmower at Macy's.

People in this thread wanna prove disks are better than drums on passenger vehicles because of the percentage of them offered or rather purchased by consumers, then by the same token the same proof of the opposite case exists for CMV's..and the argument of drums versus disks because of % on the road cancels out. Tis why it was brought up.

Find you a report? no thanks I don't think this thread could handle the miscomprehesion. Your references proved nothing.

 

BlueT doesn't read...

He only see's what he wants to see. Mericuh.

 

Yup. Muricah.

Gotta go burn a copy of the movie Idiocracy. It's too scary anymore, Daddy...

 

Only once if you have scientific proof. Show me a study ... ?

Really, so you saying NHTSA study done by scientists is not good enough for you ? Oh wait you already said that you think it was rigged ...

 

lol "words"