Frame previously inspected but now rusted. Now what?

Hi everyone,

I have a 99 PreRunner V6. 119K miles. Bought it in September 2014. Back in October 2013, the previous owner had a frame inspection done at Down East Toyota in Maine. Passed without issue. Truck has 106K miles on it then.

I just took it in to my local Toyota shop here in Atlanta to get the A/C checked. Guy called and said that the frame is rusted through, and the right rear leaf spring is barely hanging on. He wouldn't even drive it, except to put it back in his lot. Rest of the truck is in great condition.

I figured that since the inspection was done, I was safe buying this truck. However, now I'm stuck. I called Toyota and they told me that they cannot guarantee what their dealer did during the inspection, and that there's nothing they can do since I'm now outside of the 15 year period. I kept explaining to them that the truck was inspected per the recall and that THEIR staff said it was fine, but she kept telling me that "I understand, I would be frustrated if I were you, but there really isn't anything I can do".

Am I stuck with a very pretty, but pretty much unusable truck now? Should I try going to a zone rep or something? I'm very frustrated right now.

 

Everything starts 1 day, just because today things are good doesn't mean they're not covered in flames tomorrow.

Main reason all the 'stealership' complaints are just venting. 2 months ago they changed the oil and today it's all 'sploded. Probably unrelated but I understand the need to vent some steam. Odds are, if the truck is unusable, you're up a creek.

 

Didn't mean to come across as venting; sorry about that.

I guess I figured that less than 2 yrs and 14K miles should not cause a frame to rot to where it is undriveable. But those inspections were probably pretty subjective, and I also guess you're right that not much can be done at this point. Man, I really love my truck, but not enough to spend another $10K on it to get a new frame.

 

The 15 year warranty involved buy-backs, frame replacements, and undercoating.

If you owned an older 1st gen - and it failed, they'd offer to 'buy-back' the truck.
If you owned a newer 1st gen - and it failed, they'd replace the frame.
The trucks that passed the frame inspection, were supposed to get the undercoating and I think that extended the warranty further.

So....sounds like your truck SHOULD'VE received the undercoating in 2013...... but didn't???

Unfortunately....because you're out of the 15 years, you're probably out of luck. Unless of course, you want to really fight it with toyota corp. It's worth a try if you have the patience and attitude to do it.

 

I'm not exactly sure if it got the undercoating in 2013. The service record only says that the inspection was done, and "RESULT OK". The issue was that I specifically looked for trucks that had the inspection done and/or had a frame replacement (for some reason I really liked the 99-00 models and so it took a while to find one), and figured that was a safe bet that all was OK. I shouldn't have assumed, but I've had luck with Toyotas in the past, and didn't think it would be an issue.

 

99s (95-00) were passed or crushed. No spray, no replacement frames. If your frame did not have holes when it was checked you are unfortunately SOL. Was there rust when it was inspected? Probably.
Were there holes? Probably not.
The inspection was to check for holes not just rust, the line had to be drawn somewhere.

 

I bought a 2000 Tacoma in 1999 and I am the original owner and only have 183 K miles and baby it. It runs great with zero issues. I saw the frame corrosion recall and proactively took it for inspection in 2010 (no corrosion found). Suspect, I took it back in for 2013 (under a different towing package recall). There were no issues found as of Feb 2013. Because I had no corrosion, according to the paperwork, I was not eligible for the warranty or the buy-back program. I lived in a non cold weather state prior, which was not a part of the recall. In 2009 I moved to a semi cold weather state.

However, TWO years after the last inspection, the frame is completely rotten. My mechanic told me today (9/10/2015) it is not drivable due to extensive rust after I brought it in a for a tiny leaky stem valve on a tire. I am crushed. The frame has shifted and the steering wheel is pulling too hard to the right. The extent of the corrosion is way more than two years old. The 15 year extended warranty expired in late 2014. Toyota Corp told me I am outside the warranty that expired last year. BUT HELLO, I have a file saying I have zero corrosion two years ago.

Trying to figure out this mess, I found a class action lawsuit moving forward in state and Federal courts over this issue: http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...nerable-frame-rust-class-action-lawsuit-says/ and I spoke to the lead attorney fighting it. His name is Phillip J Milliga and he is a Fort Smith Arkansas Attorney (479) 783-2213. He took my call right away and recommended some steps. He is upset at how cavalier Toyota is being over impending safety issues. My mechanic said that if I was in an accident, he thinks the frame would have come off. Phillip Milligan thinks that Toyota Tacoma deaths have probably happened over the recall but that law enforcement does not know to look for it. The attorney thinks that significant accidents from this issue are likely in the future. I totally agree looking at my frame. EVEN IF I don't get a penny back, I will fight for the safety of others.

WE MUST ALL FIGHT BACK TOGETHER. This frame issue is a highway robbery and a scam a threat to many lives on the road.The attorney wants people with this issue to make complaints to the National Safety Transportation Board (NTSB), an agency that can force Toyota's hand on a mandatory buy-back program because of the impending and imminent threat to many people's lives. There are over 300,000 Tacomas with this issue on the road STILL. Apparently, Toyota has already settled with the company that provided the frames via a $25 million lawsuit where the frame manufacturer, Dana, was found negligent of using the wrong amalgamation of metals see http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/12/retire-us-dana-idUSTRE70B7KZ20110112. Toyota is keeping this victory quiet and not sharing the proceeds because of tarnishing their reputation AGAIN with another recall issue. Apparently, Toyota is well aware of the issue and using their billions to fight legal technicalities.

PEOPLE. I urge you to
1) Call Phillip if you have an issue. I am not a client of Philip and have no conflict of interest. He is hugely sympathetic and taking action.
2) Go to your Toyota dealership and get whatever old paperwork you can that says you did or do not have rust. He told me I am the few that knew of the recall, went in for the recall, was turned down by the warranty, have paperwork that says I had no corrosion but clearly have a problem. I told my dealership nothing and requested the files. Where files are old and archived, I took pictures of their computer screen which they agreed (I told them the pictures are for a buyer and I planned to buy a new truck on their lot. They happily kissed my a**.
3) Next file the NTSB complaint here: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml.
4) If your car is not driveable, have it towed to a dealership and ask them "what do you plan to do about this?". Philip said that some dealerships do not know what to do but are paying for rental cars for clients for more six months. I plan to do this next.
5) FIGHT THE FIGHT. Philip is looking for key testimony, stories, evidence that Tacoma is not taking action. I WILL TESTIFY because this is such malicious act. PEOPLE are going to die from this issue. My mechanic said my frame is so close to falling off the frame it can not be driven. I HAD NO IDEA. Toyota told me it was FINE in 2013. IT IS NOT.

 

incorrect on the sprays. Mine had one done when the recalls were first out(99). Aside from that i dont think there is much you can do except patch it possible sorry OP. Unless it didnt get the spray and should have? not sure though

 

the extended frame warranty only lasted 15 years from the "date of purchase." Once out of that period Toyota does not have to replace the frame. Also it only included "cold weather climate" states that used road salt; so if you bought it in a state not listed, and then lived in one of those states, you are still not covered.

You have to remember that a 15 year old vehicle can be registered as a "Classic" if you want.

and tpot, the fact Toyota acknowledged the issue and worked with customers to rectify bad frames means they are not sweeping it under the rug. Also your points are out of spite and frustration rather than truth. To go from almost no rust to rusted out in under two years means you had lots of moisture/salt around you. Hence your statement of moving to a cold weather climate state. The frame in 2013 passed the inspection, but then became rusty after that.

 

That was a big mistake. I live nearby where the dealership you mentioned is and any vehicle bought used in this area, you are taking a huge chance. The salt is ferocious here and what they see on the out side of a boxed frame is not what is on the inside. The rust worked it's way through to the outside and rust of this type is worse in areas that cannot dry out where salt brine settles.don't buy older cars from this area !!!!!!

Here is what you can do. FIRST, DONOT DEAL WITH A DEALER. YOU GET BETTER RESULTS CALLING CUSTOMER SERVICE AT TOyota and dealing directly with toyota America. Get a representative on the line. Work with them not the dealer.

The DownEast Toyota dealership has a body shop and even the people who work there that keep their cars do what I do. We paint the outside of frames with grease and squirt bio degradable oil through holes on the inside once every year or two and the frames and body NEVER RUST. This is what you do in these areas to keep your car and truck from rusting for decades. I kid you not....this is the only thing that works here.

 

Here is the deal about rusted frames and bodies. They almost always happen in heavily salted areas. It is not just a problem with poor quality frames, it is a problem with poor drainage of those frames and body panels. It you own a truck or car in these heavily salted areas and you your car approaches ten years, you WILL GET RUST THROUGH somewhere and your frame will rust. If you don't do what I said earlier no one has any sympathy for you. ALL METALS RUST AROUND SALT and even though Toyota frames are more suseptable, eventually they all rust.

We get these rust question problems and I try to tell you guys what to do, but everyone seems to want to use commercial "cover ups" on the outside when the rust, even in box frames, are from the salt and brine inside. You must spray oils through access holes inside the frames and body panels every year or two if you live in this area.

 

Btw....I just sold a 2004 4 Runner 11 years old and asked top dollar for it. A fellow near by looked at my car and told me my asking price was little high. He knows the area and the rust problems. I asked him to crawl under neath and find any rust on the under carriage. He found almost none including the frame. He said......this truck doesn't look two years old under neath. I'll take it for your asking price.

 

Frizzman,
Toyota IS sweeping the issue under the rug. That is the point of MY call to action above. There are thousands of these death traps still out there like mine about to fall of their frames because Toyota arbitrarily decided where to draw the line like you said with some arbitrary time frame for a warranty. The line that should be redrawn now should better include public safety. The NTSB should require a mandatory recall of remaining Toyota Tacomas for inspection. People are going to die because of this issue. The frame of my truck is in such back shape it literally is about to fall off and two years ago the dealership told me my truck had no corrosion despite two inspections. I live in a sub tropical state also. They did not indicate ever in written form or verbal for that there would be an issue in the future. I only found out about it because I took my car to an independent shop for a tire leak. Thank god for my life, the frame corrosions was identified.

This issue is only going to get worse now, not better. Toyota is being negligent by not proactively contacting customers and removing these death missiles. Toyota is not honoring its commitment required by law to protect consumers and the general public. If Toyota is going to screw loyal customers like me over who are maintaining their vehicles and not have honest discussions with them about how quickly they can fall apart (yes my truck was supposed to be sprayed and it was not), I will happily join the Class Action law suits and do whatever I can to spread the word. This is not about money. This is about public safety. Everyone do these steps

1) Call Phillip Milligan, Attorney, leading the charge on the state an federal class action lawsuits against Toyota on this issue. Toyota has already acknowledged the issue and been compensated read here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/12/retire-us-dana-idUSTRE70B7KZ20110112 so know this issue is not resolved. It is just getting started.
2) Know that calling corporate Toyota, over the dealer, does nothing either. They RUDELY told me there is nothing that can be done. This is false. A lot can be done. Many of the trucks must be incentivized to come off the road as a preventative safety measure and Toyota should not shy away like the actively are.
2) File a National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) complaint here: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml. The NTSB has already opened up a specific investigation on this issue. They were getting a complaint a day on the Toyota Tacoma 99-04 for some time.
4) If your car is not driveable due to the frame issue have it towed to a dealership and ask them "what do you plan to do about this?". Philip said that some dealerships do not know what to do but are paying for rental cars for clients for more six months.

FIGHT THIS ISSUE. SAVE A LIFE. People have died because of this issue and people in the future will die when these rusty frames continue to fall apart in less than two years like mine did.

STEP UP CORPORATE TOYOTA, by law you deserve to deliver on much higher standards of public safety.

 

it's nice to know you joined just to post troll food. not sure if you're a real account or not but here's my 2p...

lesson number one, take care of your own vehicle. you obviously paid no attention to the frame or truck and now want to blame someone else. your own statements contradict what you are saying. death traps exist when irresponsible drivers get behind the wheel every day. and to this day I have not heard (at least near me) of anyone dieing from a rusty frame. most have had the trucks taken or pulled aside and told not to drive them. your truck had no significant rust on both inspections, that's fine. you also live in sub tropical state with more moisture (rusts faster) and now two years after you took the truck in it has rust issues. things rust over time.

Also Toyota sent notice to owners about the frame recall (I got mine in 2010). Again if you did not buy the truck in a cold climate state then you have no case to begin with. As far as you wanting Toyota to send you written notice that your truck may rust in the future? That's pretty far-fetched and reaching.

Like Dagosa I sprayed my frame from year one (helps having a mechanic) so what I had was mostly surface, nothing with holes (he even remarked we should get rid of the Toyota spray and re-do).

You can try to get whatever you can get, and if it works out then good for you. Just don't expect the moon.

 

My bad.

 

Yes lets all jump on the band wagon !!

Maybe we can put Toyota Out of business is that not what every one wants it seems ??



No more new Trucks no more parts .

Just more people unemployed another good thing !!

Win win is it not

Being aware of the frame problem when I bought my 2000 the frame was perfect

60 ,000 miles later it needed some work 15 years old I fixed it and never gave it a thought

Things do wear out and need attention .

The fact that some vehicles can get so bad I can only say Shame on you !!

I can only guess the Quicky mart techs never brought the rust to your attention

 

Thanks for the comments. Trying to weigh options right now. Is it at all possible to "fix" the frame by using frame reinforcements that are welded in particular sections? Or is it something that once it is rotted out, there's nothing else that can be done?

I also wondered if maybe I could get a frame from a wrecked 99 or 00 Tacoma and have someone swap it out (since there are no more new frames)? I know I'd have to make sure the new frame isn't bent or rusted (hopefully being in GA will help), but maybe that's an option?

Or maybe I just have to lick my wounds and try to sell the truck to a salvage yard. I mean, everything EXCEPT the frame is in great condition. Should be worth something, no?

 

Yeah, I actually haven't visited a dealer yet. Once my local mechanic broke the news to me, I called Toyota Corporate. They are the ones that pretty much told me to pound sand (well, she was a little nicer than that, but basically said she couldn't do anything and she would be the only one that could - no escalation available). I was wondering if maybe I should visit a dealer (I do need an oil change) and see what they do. But seems like that could be a big waste of time.

 

Frizzman,
I didn't join this to "troll". I am delivering a much needed public safety message as a selfless act. I was a loyal Toyota customer but now with what happened, compensation or not, I will get the message out.

Regarding your lesson number one, take care of your own vehicle: I take amazing care of my vehicle. I have it regularly maintained, it is has never broken down, and it is clean in the inside like the day I bought it. I used to detail cars and I baby this like a luxury vehicle. I repair items on it when I am told what is needed immediately. I spare no expense. Shame on you for telling me what I have not done or have done on my vehicle. I proactively read the recall notices online even though I have never received notice from Toyota about them. I noticed the rust on the frame and that is why I took it in in 2010 and 2013 for the inspection. Both times, my reports came back with the words "no corrosion". I was told by the dealership "I am not eligible for compensation". I am not a penny pincher and I take the dealership's advice seriously. I am not a mechanic, I don't have a lift, and I don't know what is normal wear and tear for a vehicle of this age. I do trust the company that I bought the product from and if that is a flaw that so be it. I am sure there are thousands of other loyal Toyota fans like me that trust Toyota. This is where I believe Toyota is doing their bean counting in not owning up to this issue--if they don't fully acknowledge how serious the problem is they don't have to provide full restitution for a problem, they themselves took to court and won (E.g. Lawsuit against Dana see http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/12/retire-us-dana-idUSTRE70B7KZ20110112).

Regarding your commment "things rusting over time" hmmm...For a frame to be identified in 2013 with "NO CORROSION" to 2015 being "not legal to drive" with the frame falling off is a PUBLIC SAFETY HAZARD. I am not looking for sympathy. For the last year, had I been in an accident not by my own doing, this truck could have killed me or other people. I had NO IDEA because I brought the rust issues to the dealership's attention TWICE and TWICE I was told "no corrosion". There are other people out there with false confidence their trucks are fine because the dealership is handing them paperwork like I received saying it is fine. It is not fine. The level of corrosion on this vehicle did not happen in two years. Toyota needs to notify their customers that these vehicles are corroding faster (because they fought the same issue in court and won). They need to point that they are not legal to drive despite the inspections approved if they care about their reputation. If not the NTSB will catch up with this (file your complaint here https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml.

It turns out I requested my frame to be sprayed when I took it in 2010. I found out that they choose not to do mine because no corrosion was found. I was under the impression it had been sprayed. I am not expecting the moon. I am expecting that Toyota own up to these repeated mistakes that cost the life of my truck to be cut short, loss of income (I make about $600 a month off my Tacoma), and frustration. If they legally won in court against the maker of the faulty frame, ALL of the frames involved in the lawsuit should be regularly inspected as a public safety issue. For those frames with unusual amounts of rust, they should be incentivized to be taken off the road. It is the right thing to do. Toyota Corporate told me "there is nothing that can be done". Shame on them.

Shame on you too Frizzman for trying to make this personal. You are likely a corporate wonk? Dude, by making it personal you have no credibility.

Like I said, I don’t care if I get a penny back, I am going to put the public safety message out there. I did my homework, I took care of my vehicle, and Toyota failed me and thousands of others. Before these vehicles hurt someone, I will take this as far as I need to go. These vehicles will hurt people because if people like me, who take as good of care of their vehicles, have their vehicles fall literally apart in two years—it will continue to happen. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE and for your to tote some company line is ethnically, morally and spiritually twisted. You are a part of the problem Frizzman. I will be part of the solution. People:
1) Call Phillip Milligan, Attorney, leading the charge on the state an federal class action lawsuits against Toyota on this issue (479) 783-2213. Share your story.
2) Read up on how Toyota has already acknowledged the issue and been compensated read here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/12/retire-us-dana-idUSTRE70B7KZ20110112
3) Complain to NTSB here about your Tacoma: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml The NTSB can require a mandatory buy back program of all these vehicles as a matter of public safety but they need to know about the problem.

 

Repairing the frame all depends on the severity and placement of the rust.
You could take it to a frame shop or welding fabricator type person and have them give you estimates and suggestions on how to repair it. However - You may want to research your STATE laws... Does your state have yearly inspections to register or drive vehicles on the raods? Will the inspection process PASS any frame repairs? If the state won't pass the truck regardless of what type of repairs you do.....its obviously pointless to make those repairs. Unless you keep it as an unregistered trail rig or farm truck.

Buying a used frame from a junkyard? You'll have the same frame issues ....and you'll be doing this again in 5 years or so.

Don't sell the truck to the salvage yard. Part it out.... Take everything off the truck and sell as parts. You'll get far more money in engine, tranny, axles, electronics, body panels, t case, dash parts, etc etc etc. You can sell the rusted frame to the junkyard.