This truck is going to bury the GM twins.

They are now selling their offroad package, but with that same stupid spoiler that gives it like a 19 degree approach angle. And the spoiler is a pain in the neck to take off. Dumb move, GM.

 

Yeah that ZR2 concept would have been a hot item. Especially with the diesel giving you the torque for awesome off road power along with keeping your mpgs pretty decent on the road.

Ford shed 500-700 lbs by switching to aluminum and it barely caught GM in weight. It is like 60lbs lighter now roughly. And only NOW do they start to touch 17 mpg. GM actually gets close to their epa estimates of around 20 mpg average. If GM made the switch to aluminum, they would too shed a ton more weight and once again jump ahead of everyone on being the lightest full size along with killing everyone on MPG. Probably jump up another 2 mpg or so.

 

Also, the more videos and reviews on the twins' diesel that is coming out, the more I like it. They all keep getting around 30 mpg on their test drives. They also easily tow whatever they want. The only issue I see is the ground clearance. But being that every other aspect of the truck is a winner over the Tacoma, I would gladly buy this truck and throw on a 3 inch lift with better tires. Might cost me a few grand but I could do that and still be a tad under 40k. Plus even with a lift, the diesel will still probably keep me around 25 mpg average. And this diesel has been out for years overseas now and is a very reliable motor. Diesels also hold their resale value wayyyyyy better than gas.

Reliability-check. Resale-check. Off road ability-check. Towing-check. MPG-CHECK. Cost? Still about the same as a Tacoma DC OR 4x4.

 

I disagree. Full size trucks are huge compared to a Taco. I'm 5' 9" and I can hardly see into the bed of some full size trucks.

 

I agree. The Size of an f150 is a factor but compared to a Midsiz with 127 inch 140 inche length, it isn't as big a factor as you would think. Performance wise it tows as much in basic form and much more when equipped. All aluminum body and more powerful and just as economical engine choices. All of these make it tough to rationalize a Ranger unless it is much smaller then the midsize Taco. Then, poor ride and small cabin size for we fat ass Amercicans comes into play. I think it is smart to offer less expensive versions of the f150 that compete well with the more expensive mid size trucks. What could make them jump is the abandonment of the Taco and making something with perceived off road capability and diesel options that are affordable. You could then get a migration from Toyota becasue after all, they are the elephant in the room. If you can't make a truck that take sales from them, why bother tooling up.

 

Agree....but the weight is the same for the F150, they are just as exconomical. The nitch for Toyota is QDR and off road. Size matters then and hurts off road. Btw, the 140 inch wb of the Dc LB puts them square one in the middle of the full size domain.

 

I under stand the compelling parts of a disel but under $40k the first time around will be a tough find. Dealers will buy them all with upper level trim......thatt's high thirties without the diesel. If one is serious, you will need to try one out
Then special order..

My problem is, you need to drive a diesel truck a lot, and spend a lot of time in one to make the payback worth it. You aren't going buy a stripped down model with a diesel if that is true.......dealers know that when they buy them foe sale. But, you need to learn a new driving experience too and the cold weather potential problems and the other idiosyncrasies of them.

Still, if it does well enough for the Clorado to scare the bejesus out of Toyota to make one, great.

But don't hold your breath...look how long it has taken to work one into the Trundra...

 

No, the Taco is still 600 lbs lighter than the F-150, and at least 6" narrower. That 6" helps a lot when parking.

 

Like to have 6 more inches lol

 

If Ford introduces a new Bronco that was a cross between a 4runner and a Wrangler, it will be my next vehicle.

 

Are you comparing models with the same WB and options.....super cab vs double cab.
The f150 in base form is more economical regardless of the weight difference.

 

Why would Ford build a 4 Runner with a frame. The Explorer used to be that vehicle. It was nothing special with a frame for off road. Except for one special truck edition, ford isn 't into off road like Toyota. Just buy a 4 Runner....a wrangler would dilute the value.....buy a cross between a 4 Runner and a 4 Runner.

 

Ford puts factory teams into SCORE races, they are definitely into the offroad scene.

You can get the fx4 off-road package that adds a locker and better susp on ANY f150 for $700. No need for a bunch of bs navigation and crap if you want a locker. Truck ala carte like Ford is doing is a smart move.
Just because most buyers don't use the truck for off-road doesn't mean they can't. Just like Tacomas.

At the time they introduced explorers every suv was body on frame, not for off-road use but because they were based on a truck. Now explorers are unibody because they are passenger suvs meant to go to the mall just like most Tacomas do.

Ford recently bought a Brazilian auto maker thats best seller is a direct competitor to the Wrangler. It would be stupid of them to not utilize the new platform and make something that goes after jeep and toyota.

 

They are not into the off road market LIKE TOYOTA except for the Raptor. You did see that statement didn't you ? I did not say they had no off road products, but in factory form, they can't compete and don't try in the SUV catagory whatso ever in the USA. The Bronco made an attempt but it's propensity to roll over shortened it's life time. Unless you think the Expediton is off road ? They have nothing on the market other then the Raptor for a very large sum, that is anyway competitive with the Tacoma or Tundra off road. They are not into the off road market now read...LIKE TOYOTA....you are Equating the off road capabilities of a unibody Explorer with 6 inches of ground clearance with a standard 4 wd Tacoma With full skid plates and 9.3 inches
Good grief man....,where are you coming from ? MARS .
? Brazil doesn't count. The question concerned the American market.

 

How is Toyota "in the offroad" market? Because they offer TRD packages? You can get a FX4 package that adds the good parts of the TRD package (better suspension and an elocker) for under $800. On ANY F150. 4cyl turbo, twin turbo v6, v8. single cab, super cab, crew cab. Pick whatever cab style you want and engine and you can have the same parts that make a TRD a TRD (not counting the sport because they're stupid.) And Fords factory offroad trim runs circles around Toyotas offering.

And about the Brazil thing. Ford recently bought a product line that is in direct competition with Jeeps in other countries. Jeep is going to be building a JK based truck that might dig into Fords F150 sales. So, Ford might, now that they have the product, bring that vehicle or something like it to the US to make up for any sales lost due to the Jeep truck.

Sorry that I look at a vehicle for what it is instead of drinking Toyota's koolaid like so many on here do.

 

All Toyota trucks in 4 wd are formitable off road and have always been. They come standard with skid plates and off road capable suspension. TRD packages off a few goodies but there is no truck made in America in standard form in 4 wd that is as capable as a Tacoma. There is more to off road then your little locker package as if that is a the most important part to off road capability. Otis not. The entire undercarriage of both a Taco and Tundra are designed along with standard skid plates, to produce the lowest drag and highest ground clearance of any commercially available standard truck. The Raptor is specialized and outstanding. But the TRD package in the Tundra is still the best bang for the buck in off road packages. If you actually did any off road with a Tacoma vs any Ford Product in standard form, you wouldn't have to exaggerate Ford capabilities ......but of course, the proof is in one little observation. Put a standard cab f150, a standard Tacoma and Tundra, all in 4 wd.....then crawl under and inspect. Take a tape measure with you too. The difference is obvious. A standard Taco needs no off road package to be an exceptional off road truck.

 

Well, they are in the off road market cause of the 4R, the Taco, and the FJ Cruiser (I know, discontinued in US), they have been doing this for decades. Ford has made little to no attempt at the off road market. Did you watch football today? Who's commercials have trucks/SUVs off roadin'....ummm, certainly not Ford's. That's being in the off road market.

But whatever, you like the F150, then buy a fuck!n' F150. There is no "koolaid" to be drunk here.... and if you want to compare Ford to Yota put the Tundra up against the F150 ...you're apples to oranges.

 

I'm not saying Toyotas are overrated offroad. All I'm saying is, a TRUE 4wd, whether it is a truck or whatever, is capable offroad. It's more on the driver than the vehicle. Which is why there are more and more driver aids like ATRAC and crap being put into vehicles. You don't need to have any skill if the truck does everything for you.

So you'd consider Subaru to be in the offroad market?

 

Well said...especially the buy your f'n f150 part?

 

You need good decision making to drive any vehicle in difficult off road conditons. There is nothing out there that is a substitute for good decison making regardless of the goodies you put on a truck. I appreciate what ford does to stay the best selling vehicle in the USA. Toyota will never be able to approach their sales in the USA. Ford has long made good decisions to stay in front and the most recent ones are good examples of them. I don't see Tacoma, Tundra ever competing with Ford F-150 in sales appeal....never.