locker for snow?

I grew up driving in snow (MI and Upstate NY) and driving style is the key to staying safe in snowy conditions, period.

Having 4WD, snow tires, etc are great but they do not eliminate the need to understand vehicle/road limitations and drive responsibly.

If I'm on snowy roads I use 4-hi, back my speed down, and make smooth adjustments to speed or steering. Now that I'm in the Northern VA area I also watch other drivers like a hawk or avoid going out on the roads at all, haha.

 

FWD might handle and keep traction slightly better. But you have no ground clearance.
Still would take a truck over any car that isnt AWD

 

Agreed, if there is enough snow that clearance becomes an issue the truck is rolling

 

From my limited experience with two different 4wd vehicles (one f150 and one suzuki samurai ) getting going was never an issue unless ice rain occurred. But slowing down, 4wd drive did not help increase brake power. Imagine that?

 

THIS

I couldn't count how many times I've talked to people that are like oh I dont care about snow I have awd/4x4. DOES NOT MATTER.
When that will matter is getting you out of a spot you're stuck in. But driving safely is all about speed and knowing how to drive in snow.

I love when they also say oh I dont need snow tires I have 4x4/awd. Doesn't matter the snows aren't even that much for moving as they are for stopping. Honestly I'm amazing in all places that get snow and have a winter for at least 4 months do not make it mandatory to have snow tires.

When it comes to snow the best thing you could do is KNOW it is snow. Do not drive like you are on dry pavement. Adjust your speed, adjust your braking, adjust your following distance. DO NOT try and make sudden turns. And if you are smart having a good set of snow tires would be a great investment.

I saw a video last winder showing that drive means nothing without good tires. It was a video of a BMW rwd vs a A4 audi quattro and subaru impreza AWD. The BMW had snows the other two didnt. The RWD was doing better than the AWD giants.

 

happens to me every winter.
No matter how good of tires I have or how much I adjust my driving, on days with heavy snow I do not go to work. I have no ground clearance. As soon as there is more than 1.5inch of snow I may as well be plowing the road lol.

 

xrunner?

 

I think this attitude might come from people's experience with the snow tires of 20 years ago. Back then, they really didn't convey nearly the advantage they do today. The technology of winter tires has come a long way in a short time.

 

most of these people are actually in their 20s lol. ignorant shits


so they wouldn't know about the old ones.

 

2006 jetta lol. I have no ground clearance
cant really tell from the picture but front lip is only about 1.5 inches off the ground
cars lower now than it was in this picture

and with snows since they're 16inch rims and only a 195 60
car sits even lower.

 

Oh well, I was trying to be charitable toward them.

 

Ah. Being TW I just figure everyone drives a taco

 

nope lol. I'm getting one at the end of next year around oct. Just want to have a better down payment. I was going to get it this year but shit came up with the jetta had to get a lot of work done so that put a pretty big dent in my down payment I had saved up so ya. next year. I'm mostly hear to see reviews and see if there are any big issue with the new one. and I had an old 4runner one year as winter beater. but it died half way through lol.

I updated that post you can see it lol

 

Yep, too low for snow

 

In my experience with a 2009 Rubicon, being fully locked, front and rear with 37 inch BFG KM2s, you can handle far deeper snow than what is possible unlocked. In deep snow the amount of weight on each wheels changes very suddenly with the varying snow depth and conditions and you want to keep power going to all wheels regardless to keep moving snow and maintain momentum. So turn off traction control completely. Press your traction control button, then hold it down for 5 seconds, let off, then hold it down for another 5 seconds to turn it completely off. If you high center without a friend to pull you out though, you could be digging for a while. And air down your tires to increase surface area and help the tires to not dig so bad.

 

I've never had snow tires. Once every 5-7 years we may not have much snow or just enough to mess it up a couple months. Most of the time it is crazy. Could be 40 and sunny, snow non-stop with little accumulation, get dumped on, snowing in october/november/late march/early april, or just cold (like -15 below actual temp for a month and a half). You just never know.

I remember riding motorcycle one year in December and running the snow blower in early november. Also remember riding motorcycle in late February and running blower in early april.

 

You're a little bit oversimplifying things.
Not all AWD are equal. In fact, most AWD do NOT have a center differential at all. Those "variable torque split" (or whatever a particular manufacturer wants to call it) do NOT have center differentials. Anything with a center differential is 50/50 all the time no matter what. The reason is because a differential, by design, can only apply the same output torque on both sides. This is why with an open differential when you have no traction on one output, no power goes to the side that does have traction... its equal = 50/50. When you add some kind of limited slip unit, it maintains that same 50/50 split by braking (whether it is via the main brakes or within the differential itself is not important) the side with less traction in order to increase the torque on it and thus on the opposite side as well.

Now what a variable torque split is, is this; imagine a spool (that is an offroad term for a differential that is welded solid, thus no longer actually a differential since it doesn't differentiate). Now imagine that one (or both) of the output shafts from that spool has a clutch on it. And that that clutch provides a variable degree of friction based on the hydraulic pressure being applied to lock that clutch. When you are at a 100/0 split, that clutch is completely disconnected, so all of the torque goes the other way. When you are at a 90/10 split, there is a bit of pressure on that clutch, so some torque goes through, but only a bit. When you work your way all the way to 50/50, that clutch is fully locked and the outputs are fully bound together.

 

Lots of misinformation here. The planetary/crown center diffs in many modern Subarus and Audis with longitudinal engines (i.e. the "real" AWD systems under discussion) enable almost any front/rear split that the traction situation requires:

Audi:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro_(four-wheel-drive_system)

"With the new "Crown Gear" center differential, up to 70% of the torque can be applied to the front wheels while up to 85% can be applied to the rear wheels if necessary."

Subaru:
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/transmission-awd/134395793-limited-slip-differential-elsd-faq.html
"The VTD incorporates a planetary center differential (similar to DCCD) with a nominal 45:55 F:R torque split. If the need arises, the TCU (transmission control unit) can allocate up to 100% of the torque to be sent to the rear or front axle by manipulation of a hydraulic multiplate transfer clutch."

Not to mention the electronically-controlled torque vectoring systems (like what's available on the S4) that actually over-drive the outer rear wheel to maintain the desired yaw rate, without even having to brake the inner wheel. Systems like these are night and day in snow/icy conditions compared to full-time 4WD. Tires are still the most important thing, but 4WD vs. a good AWD system can mean the difference between ending up in a ditch or not.

 

About snow tires;
Whether you have the very best snow tires, or a set of slicks you should only be using on a track in July, the same thing applies; drive within the limits of your vehicle and your skill. The worse your equipment is, the slower you go, the more space you leave to the next vehicle, etc. Using inappropriate equipment doesn't make it dangerous by default, it just means that the operating limits must become more conservative to compensate. And yes, sometimes that may mean not going out at all, or staying off of certain roads that may become more dangerous when the conditions get bad.

One could argue that for someone who accurately drives at or near the limit of their equipment, the worse that equipment, the safer they are, BECAUSE at the limit of the very best snow tires might mean 40-50, while at the limit of driving on your exposed steel belts might be 5. Even if you are more likely to get into a collision on the belts at 5, it is a lot less likely that you are going to die in that collision.

Tire choice itself is an interesting subject. One of the problems is that of all those tires under a certain label, there are ones that are good, and ones that are bad. And for that matter, different labels can overlap. The very best all season tire is likely a lot better in ice and snow than the very worst dedicated snow tire. Some all season tires are branded with the mountain/snowflake symbol for extreme winter conditions, and actually qualify for the purposes of law (in places like quebec where winter tires are mandatory) and insurance rebates AS winter tires. Those are the tires that *I* tend to aim for. For example, Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure (that sure is a mouthful...) for the truck, or Hankook Optimo 4S for the wife's car. Are they as good as the best dedicated winter tires? I wouldn't argue that they are. Are they among the *best* all season tires? Yup. Are they better than some dedicated winter tires? Probably. Can they be used safely in most (if not all) winter driving conditions? Certainly, as long as (just like ANY other tires), their limitations are respected.

 

Why not put armor oil on it? Seems to me this aids in protecting the plastic