Canada BS Thread

If the distriution network for the current system is already adequate , how would adding more refined domestic products not be able to use the same infrastructure system ?

 

Btw my concerns are in regards to Canada East being used to supply oil to the east and processed fuel being shipped back probably not being a viable system. Instead refineries should be built in every area where it makes sense to minimize the need for additional pipeline or rail shipping that doesn't need to happen.

 

See above. The system is barely adequate. It can't handle it when a single provincial refinery goes down, so I doubt the current system could support shipping refined products half way across Canada.

 

So we agree

build more refining capabilty for domestic consumption

thats what Elizabeth May said in the " rant " video

 

Hmm the part of her talk that I heard sounded like she wanted Canada to focus on exporting refined oil to foreign countries. I don't see the current world market supporting that.

 

The east coast Canadian refineries already export refined oil to the US

 

I thought most of those refineries are shut down. I'll look into it. I think focusing on domestic supply from refineries is a safe first bet. If those refineries end up shipping oil to the USA so much better for us.

 

http://canadianfuels.ca/en/refining-sites-and-capacity

 

The distribution network from refineries to retail is adequate. However, we dont use the same infrastructure system across the country. Refineries East of the Ottawa Valley get their oil from foreign markets (Algeria, Saudi Arabia, etc.) via oil tankers. Other than rail (shipping ~800,000 barrels a day by rail isn't feasible), no such network exists to transport bitumen or refined products from Alberta to East of the Ottawa Valley. If there were a disruption to oil supply in Eastern Canada oil tankers would be loaded in BC via the transmountain pipeline and go through the Panama Canal like they did in 1973.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...f-sufficiency/article13621084/?service=mobile

 

That's the point of Canada East, right? To stop buying foreign oil. I don't think anyone is against that.

It's funny no one has mentioned the state of our refineries though. They are in rough shape.

 

it's funny that May and co can be so against exporting unrefined products while Eastern Canada relies on importing unrefined products.

I read somewhere that the new refinery (supposed to be complete by 2017) North West of Edmonton is the first to be built in Canada since 1984.

 

Sure , but what I'm getting at is that with a limited expansion of pipelines like the Energy East proposal , we could refine more oil in Canada no ?

 

I think her point is to refine products in Canada so that there is value added versus the strip and ship that we do now not only with oil but also witb raw logs

 

Enough for domestic supply, but getting any more excess to other markets could be a transportation issue.

 

What is the global market on logs? Are they usually shipped raw or processed? I think the biggest hurdle to shipping value adding petroleum products is that the world market deals in crude. If you stop selling crude and start pushing gasoline it isn't going to matter if everyone else keeps selling crude. I wonder if the world log/lumber market is the same because honestly I don't know.

 

Raw logs are just that , raw logs

The only processing is grading and bundling

 

"As recently as the mid-1990s, raw log exports only made up a tiny sliver of the forest sector. By the early 2000s however, the provincial government was feverishly promoting the practice. As raw log shipments increased, so did the outrage from forest industry workers, unions, environmentalists, resource policy experts and many others.

In 1997, for example, less than 200,000 cubic metres of B.C. timber was exported in raw form (one cubic metre roughly equals one city telephone pole). For the past three years, raw log shipments have exceeded 5.5 million cubic metres annually.

In just five years, from 2009 to 2013, annual raw log exports jumped from under 2.5 million to well over 6.5 million cubic metres.

To put that in perspective: a standard logging truck can hold around 40 cubic metres of timber. A standard single family home contains about 37 cubic metres of wood. So, in 2014 alone, B.C. exported enough wood to fill 147,250 logging trucks or build over 159,000 homes.

If lined up end to end, those trucks would stretch from Vancouver to Thunder Bay, Ontario. If inhabited by four people each, those homes would house more people than all of Vancouver."


http://m.thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/02/04/BC-Raw-Log-Exports/

 

I understand that but what I mean is does the world market usually buy logs or processed material? For example, gasoline, diesel, and plastics are rarely shipped by tanker. When they are it's usually to a nearby market, and not globally. Is the situation the same for logs? If it is aren't you tilting at windmills a bit by suggesting more processed logs could be shipped? Or is Canada big enough of a lumber exporter to control the market?

 

not really. refining capacity is what it is, doesn't matter where the oil comes from.
as far as the prospect of exporting refined products, the US has excess refining capacity so I doubt they'd be a buyer any more than they are now. I'm not sure where this untapped market for refined products is that May thinks we should be supplying.

 

Thanks OZ. So at one time it was normal not to ship raw logs. That makes the situation a lot different than crude.