Alignment

yeah im gonna say that got way out of hand with the guy from camburg. cmon guys why would you push a vendor away like that.

I understand you are disgruntled with your purchase, but realisticly if you went 0 camber and get 2+* of caster you are fine, and they do exactly that.

 

::searches Kmart.com for a $99 drone::

 

I dont think so. I think the two posters above were acting like assholes to a vendor who was being very professional and educational on his equipment. I have been reading this thread from the get go and felt like they were both being d bags, I dont run high end stuff and wasnt offended by evenflows remarks at all. He just dropped the mic on these 2 and they earned it.

 

Hey i had to setup another sn when i saw this. my old one was deleted as im sure this one will be and the message to follow.

Im not a vendor. just commenting on what i have seen in the last few years on here.

Im sticking up for camburg even though there name is huge as well as there accomplishments. They hardly need me to step in.

But on a greater note, there were a handful of active vendors on here who gave solid information, they talk to manufacturers and sometimes provide spy shots or unpublished info to the members here. They had run massively successful group buys for the members as well. In addition to all the great deals and reading they supply us, they create unique content for the forum and its owners. And in some cases comments made on this forum by vendors have been found in other vendors descriptions of products, bc they had to have something on there site in order to have a fighting chance at competing for sales.

But lately i havent seen shit going down on here. Do you think they got out of the parts game....no they moved on to places where people not only buy stuff but are eager to learn from true professionals.

Btw camburg scott is 100% accurate about the quality of these kits. None of the manufacturers suggest the parts work together or should be used with one another. Scotts customers have probably never heard of ome and would never be happy with the performance of those products, just to give you some perspective. These drivers would break those parts pulling out the drive way.

Scotts company builds race trucks not farm trucks.

 

" Lifts that are well respected in the offroad community ? "

Bro...affordable for the masses low cost upgrades...come on we all know that is true...no serious off-road rig is running LR UCA's, or 5100's or OME parts. I have 5100's on our 4Runner to level it for the wife, I own them too.. But you are clearly not grasping my point...I may not be explaining my pov correctly because I was doing my best to add shock value as impactful as everyone's ridiculous Camburg bashing. Again...your expecting someone that builds " real " stuff...no BS guys, hand made ground up built from scratch $250,000 + race trucks - to know the ins and outs of 5100's and OME springs is akin to bashing on Mark Zukerburg (sp?) because he's not in the loop on who signed your high school yearbook...with a ball point pen.

In regard to that quote about my truck I'm not sure what you are referring too but the context of that quote is that after a six week rebuild of the truck with a Solo long travel kit and a linked rear when I installed the new long travel kit and we set the truck on the ground with fresh springs it was sitting about a 1/2" too high and needed to come down a bit to get a hair of neg camber and a bit more caster...it's a long travel kit it's supposed to have a lot more caster.

 

I knew I should have saved for the $250k race truck instead of the crappy LR arms on my crappy truck

 

Goodnight bump

 

Manufacturers, @Blackout14, I never said vendors don't recommend them.

Bilstein does not recommend them. Because of this bs, they built the 6112 so people dont need to cry about not being able to afford a fox, icon, king 2.5 inch coilover and they found the correct eibach spring to make everyone stfu. It accomplishes all the same things as the moronic cross manufacturer cross platform menage you guys are trying to put together.

In addition camburg is in the customs business they did the taco ucas becuas they own tacomas themselves and they saw a need, not to make a huge profit.

And ome only agrees to it bc they know their shocks are worse than rancho rs9000s from the 90s

 

I didnt know bilstein was in the buisness to make people 'shut the fuck up'. lol

 

That should read..."save a signifigant amount of time personally failing to do what they offer in the 6112" your right. I misquoted

 

Everything that you just stated about 5100's is based on stock OE toyota coils amigo. In fact when the front shocks took a shit on our 4Runner I walked into Downsouth Motorsports with a small fistful of cash and wanted to get 5100's and some Eibach coils they very quickly stopped me a said - no no no only the original coils are suggested with those anything else and your playing a guessing game....and if you check Camburg's site for 5100's it says the exact same thing - re use the OEM coils and then if you click on the 5100 tech specs it clearly state for 0-2" of lift. Go to the Bilstein site...same thing. I don't care what any of those retailers are selling as kits...they are only selling it because you want it and will buy it to get that 3" of lift you want. Think about it the CO itself is designed for just 2" of lift so anything you add on top of that is like a body lift or that fat chick that seemed like a good idea 7 Gunissess into a fun night. What you guys are doing is a " trick " to gain more lift, you are adding a coil that is " over rated " for the truck to add additional lift because the shock you are buying is not intended for 3" of lift amigo.

Now, in regard to the UCA's and them doing what he paid for - his alignment is so close to being just fine that by the time his brand new coils break in and settle down and the truck sags probably a 1/4 - 1/2" his alignment will be perfectly fine...shit my King coils sagged a solid 1" when they were new. *Most aftermarket UCA's are designed just to get you back to stock specs not to exceed OE specs. If you guys are adding extra caster with things like LR or other brands you are just creating more of a tire rubbing problem when / if you are say crawling some rocks and have the wheel turned. When Scott mentioned the geometry of the Taco front end he was was pointing out that when out suspension compresses it naturally moves rear ward toward that pesky cab mount and everything else that we beat the piss out of or chop off to clear. When you add more caster you make that problem even worse, the wheel moves a couple degrees steeper into the firewall etc.

I'm going to bed too, peace out....but seriously you guys went way too harsh on Camburg which is an extremely high end reputable shop.

 

Also i would not accept possitive camber and it will signifigantly affect your tire wear @Unchained 5150. Look up tire deflection.

I am personally not sold on the huge caster helping clear tires so i wont comment on desired specs there.

for a street truck
Camber: negative .05-.5 to compensate for tire deflection, which is amplified on trucks vs. cars. So nearly straight up and down or slightly angled INWARD at the top of the tire. i prefer even more because i corner hard, and it reduces under steer drastically.
Toe: possitive .05-.2 called toe in. This stabilizes the vehicle, makes it less darty when following the road surface, comes back to center easily. Toe out will make your car catch and pull over imperfections in the road as well as dart around constantly requiring correction. It will respond more quickly to your inputs however

This is an evaluation of desired specs for alignment done under no load on a static suspension. when you start articulating and then the caster comes into play which is where i know the least

 

While I agree with most of what you're saying, I do disagree with that and I'll explain why.
By maxing out the caster on the LCA and maxing out the positive camber on the LCA you move the lower balljoint AWAY from the cab mount as far as possible. Correcting the camber at the UCA and adding caster at the UCA still keeps the lower balljoint away from the cab mount. In regards to the geometry, moving the lower balljoint forward is going to give you more clearance no matter what at the same caster angle. If the suspension articulates at the same angle(say 3*) and you move the lower balljoint forward, the entire assembly moves forward unless you're running some crazy high caster.
This thread explains it better:https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...driving-report-with-light-racing-ucas.158795/


Im not saying LR are super badass long travel trophy truck shit. I'm just saying they work very well to realign the fuckery that we create when we lift these trucks.

Anyways this is all off topic and petty at this point and I'm definitely not taking a side or swinging a pitchfork. Camburg does build nice shit.

 

@Unchained 5150 I have 887s/5100s with LR UCAs and have 2.9 degrees of caster, with zero camber. All this with the front alignment cams set neutral, and the rears rotated out 3/4 of the way. I know you said one or two of your cams are maxed out, but get some pictures of them when you get the chance. Post them up, and then post your alignment specs for each side. I'll see if there is anything I can come up with to help. Maybe your alignment guy isn't quite as great as one might hope.

edit: If it were me and there was nothing I could do as far as more caster/less camber, I would sacrifice caster to get the camber to 0. In my book I can deal with something that aggravates me much better than I can buying new tires more often than I should be.

 

I totally agree that the adjustability of those style ucas allows for exactly what you said and is the ideal way to get the spindle forward away from the cab mount.

I need a solution to be more rugged than stock as well and i cant trust the adjustable part of those arms in the desert. I am buying uniball upper for that reason. If i wanted a bj style i would appreciate those engineering features for what they are.

Also i just noticed the other guy is the one who is promoting the jba arms on here....

 

I've never heard of anybody adding caster to help clear tires?

 

The guys in 2nd gen 35s 4x4 are the ones who pioneered the 3 degree caster setting i would say. Or at least thats what i am referencing because the whole thread is about clearing 35s

 

The caster is locked in, but yeah the camber can be knocked out pretty easily. They're definitely not meant for the baja1k lol. I've knocked mine out and have since torqued them down with a breaker bar after fixing camber with an angle finder. They aren't "perfect" by any means, but they work well for our shitty farm trucks

 

What you are describing is just normal alignment adjustment with the LCA being adjusted properly to move the LBJ fwd which creates more caster and moves the wheel fwd as you mentioned tilting the spindle by moving the bottom fwd away from the firewall...correct.

What they are doing with LR's when they have lifted the truck out of being able to achieve OE specs is swinging that UCA ball joint back which does move the top of the spindle back, then they are using the LR to " over adjust " the top BJ back to hit some even better #'s beyond OE which tilts the spindle back which brings everything closer to the firewall again. Just look at some of the caster specs people are posting those numbers are far beyond OE specs.

 

It's not "normal" because with any other UCA you would be stuck with the extremely high camber and not be able to reduce it at the upper balljoint like you can with the LR. You can't add a bunch of positive camber at the LCA(which helps move the lower balljoint forward, also increasing caster) if you can't reduce camber at the UCA.